Baker Mayfield says goodbye to Cleveland (update - Traded to Panthers)

[TBBills]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Watson has had one top 10 passing season.  We'll see what happens. 

 

 

 

It' hard to overstate how stupid WFT was for jumping on Wentz so quickly and paying what they did for a guy likely to be cut.  Mayfield would have been better.

Yea they chose 2 sprained ankles over some progressive commercials. 

 

[Mikie2times]

I think it's pretty obvious teams just don't want to put themselves in the same position Cleveland didn't want to be in. Namely having to payout a big contract to a guy they aren't sure is the guy. Why would any team want to trade resources just to put themselves in that position?

 

If he gets released I think at that point we will see a lot of teams interested. Then he can sign more of a prove it deal. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by KzooMike

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, KzooMike said:

I think it's pretty obvious teams just don't want to put themselves in the same position Cleveland didn't want to be in. Namely having to payout a big contract to a guy they aren't sure is the guy. Why would any team want to trade resources just to put themselves in that position?

 

If he gets released I think at that point we will see a lot of teams interested. Then he can sign more of a prove it deal. 

 

Cleveland just guaranteed 230 million to a guy with one standout season.

[Don Otreply]

59 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Cleveland just guaranteed 230 million to a guy with one standout season.

Cleveland isn’t known for their smarts, they are again doing the “ ready, fire, aim” thing that they are famous for,

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 hours ago, TBBills said:

Yea they chose 2 sprained ankles over some progressive commercials. 

 

And various legal firms in Cleveland are eyeing potential opportunities.

'We're the Official Law Firm of the Cleveland Browns!'

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Cleveland just guaranteed 230 million to a guy with one standout season.

To be fair he went from good to very good to top 5 to sitting out a year.  Off the field stuff aside, that three year progression gets QBs paid pretty much everywhere.

[stuvian]

Mayfield was drafted into an extremely dysfunctional organization. He went from Hue Jackson to Kinchen to Stefanski all in back to back years. 

 

None of the current front office regime has any stake in him.

 

The Browns are only just now starting to resemble anything like organizational competence and I am being generous in that assessment.

 

I don't think the Browns playbook was ever geared toward his strengths.

 

I always saw him as a Drew Brees type better suited to a short drop back, play action passing game. He has won playoff games.

 

I cannot imagine Houston, Carolina, Atlanta or Seattle going into the season with the status quo at QB. Why would any season ticket holder in those cities renew? 

 

It is strangely quiet on the Baltimore front. This is the last year in Jackson's rookie contract. If I'm a Ravens manager, I want some insurance against things going south in negotiations.

 

This draft looks like a weak QB class. Laugh all you want but Cam Newton is still out there as well. 

 

I think the Browns will hang on until someone goes down in training camp.

[BarleyNY]

8 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Mayfield was drafted into an extremely dysfunctional organization. He went from Hue Jackson to Kinchen to Stefanski all in back to back years. 

 

None of the current front office regime has any stake in him.

 

The Browns are only just now starting to resemble anything like organizational competence and I am being generous in that assessment.

 

I don't think the Browns playbook was ever geared toward his strengths.

 

I always saw him as a Drew Brees type better suited to a short drop back, play action passing game. He has won playoff games.

 

I cannot imagine Houston, Carolina, Atlanta or Seattle going into the season with the status quo at QB. Why would any season ticket holder in those cities renew? 

 

It is strangely quiet on the Baltimore front. This is the last year in Jackson's rookie contract. If I'm a Ravens manager, I want some insurance against things going south in negotiations.

 

This draft looks like a weak QB class. Laugh all you want but Cam Newton is still out there as well. 

 

I think the Browns will hang on until someone goes down in training camp.

I agree with pretty much all of this.  One thing I’d add is that I have heard that the Stefanski offense was dialed way back for Mayfield.  It remains to be seen how it’ll look with Watson at QB and you can certainly argue that the Wide Zone wasn’t a fit at all for Mayfield.  It’ll be interesting to see if he can be effective elsewhere.  If he was limited by having his back to so many plays with so much play action or if the problem is him getting beyond his first read in any offense.  Some team will take a shot on him.  I suspect that it is slow going right now because he’s still recovering from surgery. 

[SoTier]

40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

To be fair he went from good to very good to top 5 to sitting out a year.  Off the field stuff aside, that three year progression gets QBs paid pretty much everywhere.

 

I think that a lot of people have forgotten how good Watson was.    He played in 54 games between 2017 and 2020.   He completed more than 67% of his passes for 14500+ yards, 104 TDs, 36 INTS, and averaged 269+ yards passing per game.  He was the AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2017 and made the Pro Bowl each of the last three seasons he played.   In 2020, he lead the league in passing yards, yards per attempt, and yards per catch.  He threw for 33 TDs and 7 INTs and 4800+ yards  on a team that went 4-12 because they had no defense and horrendous coaching.

 

The only other young QBs on his level through 2020 were Mahomes and Allen.   Add Herbert and Burrow to the mix after 2021.   Mayfield isn't even in the conversation with those QBs.   He's probably better than Goff and/or Wentz, but not by much.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think that a lot of people have forgotten how good Watson was.    He played in 54 games between 2017 and 2020.   He completed more than 67% of his passes for 14500+ yards, 104 TDs, 36 INTS, and averaged 269+ yards passing per game.  He was the AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2017 and made the Pro Bowl each of the last three seasons he played.   In 2020, he lead the league in passing yards, yards per attempt, and yards per catch.  He threw for 33 TDs and 7 INTs and 4800+ yards  on a team that went 4-12 because they had no defense and horrendous coaching.

 

The only other young QBs on his level through 2020 were Mahomes and Allen.   Add Herbert and Burrow to the mix after 2021.   Mayfield isn't even in the conversation with those QBs.   He's probably better than Goff and/or Wentz, but not by much.

Those 2020 stats are inflated.  Yes, their defense was bad but not the absolute worst in the league.  Their scoring offense was mediocre.  They averaged 24 ppg.  The 2018 Bills, under rookie Allen and zero talent on offense was just a shade below that.  2017 Bills 

 

The stats are inflated because the Texans were playing from behind a lot so they played soft defenses a ton late in games.

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

I don't think the Browns playbook was ever geared toward his strengths.

 

Their playbook is geared towards a strong running game and keeping the ball out of Mayfield's hands is his strength. 

[TheBrownBear]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think that a lot of people have forgotten how good Watson was.    He played in 54 games between 2017 and 2020.   He completed more than 67% of his passes for 14500+ yards, 104 TDs, 36 INTS, and averaged 269+ yards passing per game.  He was the AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2017 and made the Pro Bowl each of the last three seasons he played.   In 2020, he lead the league in passing yards, yards per attempt, and yards per catch.  He threw for 33 TDs and 7 INTs and 4800+ yards  on a team that went 4-12 because they had no defense and horrendous coaching.

 

The only other young QBs on his level through 2020 were Mahomes and Allen.   Add Herbert and Burrow to the mix after 2021.   Mayfield isn't even in the conversation with those QBs.   He's probably better than Goff and/or Wentz, but not by much.

I mostly agree.  He's a damn fine quarterback and certainly a top 6-10 guy in terms of production.  The thing he's got going against him is that he hasn't really been a winner in the playoffs and the 4-12 season just stands out as being really odd.  I know that O'Brien purposefully submarined that team, and some historically really good QBs have been on losing teams (for example, Elway in 1990), but I have a hard time believing a truly elite QB/leader would produce a 4-12 season.  I mean, can you ever imagine the Bills losing more than 9-10 games while quarterbacked by an in-his-prime Josh Allen?   They are paying him to be Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Mahomes - a guy that always wins regardless of the roster.  I just wonder if there isn't a little more "Dak Prescott" to him than Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, etc.

[TheBrownBear]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Those 2020 stats are inflated.  Yes, their defense was bad but not the absolute worst in the league.  Their scoring offense was mediocre.  They averaged 24 ppg.  The 2018 Bills, under rookie Allen and zero talent on offense was just a shade below that.  2017 Bills 

 

The stats are inflated because the Texans were playing from behind a lot so they played soft defenses a ton late in games.

I've seen this stated a bunch of times by different posters to diminish Watson's stats, but it just isn't true.  That Texans team lost a ton of 1 score games that were back and forth the entire time.  Games that they lost on the final possession or where they held a lead or were tied heading into the 4th quarter.  It wasn't compiling numbers against prevent defenses.  His numbers are legit.  And their defense absolutely sucked.  Not worst in the league, but they finished 30th that year.

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I've seen this stated a bunch of times by different posters to diminish Watson's stats, but it just isn't true.  That Texans team lost a ton of 1 score games that were back and forth the entire time.  Games that they lost on the final possession or where they held a lead or were tied heading into the 4th quarter.  It wasn't compiling numbers against prevent defenses.  His numbers are legit.  And their defense absolutely sucked.  Not worst in the league, but they finished 30th that year.

 

They lost 6 games by 2 scores.  
 

They averaged 24 ppg.  If the production is at our 2018 Buffalo Bills level, I’m skeptical.

 

Allen the last two years in HOU would not go 4-12 and average 24 ppg.  He would have elevated that offense much more.

 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Mayfield was drafted into an extremely dysfunctional organization. He went from Hue Jackson to Kinchen to Stefanski all in back to back years. 

 

None of the current front office regime has any stake in him.

 

The Browns are only just now starting to resemble anything like organizational competence and I am being generous in that assessment.

 

I don't think the Browns playbook was ever geared toward his strengths.

 

I always saw him as a Drew Brees type better suited to a short drop back, play action passing game. He has won playoff games.

 

I cannot imagine Houston, Carolina, Atlanta or Seattle going into the season with the status quo at QB. Why would any season ticket holder in those cities renew? 

 

It is strangely quiet on the Baltimore front. This is the last year in Jackson's rookie contract. If I'm a Ravens manager, I want some insurance against things going south in negotiations.

 

This draft looks like a weak QB class. Laugh all you want but Cam Newton is still out there as well. 

 

I think the Browns will hang on until someone goes down in training camp.

I agree with all of that except for hanging on to him until someone goes down in TC, presumably to help with the trade value. They really cannot have him around the team or have him co-existing with deshaun. He needs to be dealt by the time the team starts up OTAs. 

[Behindenemylines]

39 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I think that a lot of people have forgotten how good Watson was.    He played in 54 games between 2017 and 2020.   He completed more than 67% of his passes for 14500+ yards, 104 TDs, 36 INTS, and averaged 269+ yards passing per game.  He was the AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2017 and made the Pro Bowl each of the last three seasons he played.   In 2020, he lead the league in passing yards, yards per attempt, and yards per catch.  He threw for 33 TDs and 7 INTs and 4800+ yards  on a team that went 4-12 because they had no defense and horrendous coaching.

 

The only other young QBs on his level through 2020 were Mahomes and Allen.   Add Herbert and Burrow to the mix after 2021.   Mayfield isn't even in the conversation with those QBs.   He's probably better than Goff and/or Wentz, but not by much.

Yes but I just can’t see how anyone can play at a former level after sitting a year (not due to injury), being disdained by the majority of the country, and knowing your teammates know what a POS you are.  Now maybe they don’t show it because that’s what teammates do but be darn sure there will be protests at every game and #22 will be discussed all year long.  Then throw in settlement talks etc and mentally nobody is the same-just not possible. 
 

can’t wait until this explodes in their faces and maybe sends a cautionary tale the rest of the league( yeah I know I’m smoking something)

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

To be fair he went from good to very good to top 5 to sitting out a year.  Off the field stuff aside, that three year progression gets QBs paid pretty much everywhere.

 

his first full season as a starter (2018) was statistically better than his second.  His 3rd was the best.  And it DID get him paid....by Houston, in the beginning of the 202 season, when they made made him the second highest player in NFL history. 

 

Upon signing this big new contract, he cried tears of joy.  He was bawling nonsense like this:

 

"The money is amazing. It's life-changing. It's great. But the biggest thing is for the (organization) to just trust in me and believe in me that I'm their guy, I'm their quarterback is the biggest thing that really touches me  (lol)."

 

Only 4 months later he was requesting a trade!!  Nice!!!

 

Soon after that, it became apparent that the the Houston Texans were the only entity that was consensually touching him...

 

He's a POS from before the allegations.  

[ArtVandalay]

So funny to me that Mayfield requested the Colts then the Colts went and grabbed someone else. 

 

I think Mayfield ends up in Seattle and he's a tool so he'll probably fit well with Pete Carroll. They have great weapons and he will fail miserably killing his shot as a reliable starter anywhere else. He'll be mixed into QB competitions after.

 

Panthers and Saints are the next most likely spots IMO... Falcons might be interested but I would be then squarely after these two. 

 

I don't think he would fit with the mentality of Detriot leadership. 

 

Wild card teams to me are the Giants, Eagles, and Dolphins.

Edited March 24, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

Yes but I just can’t see how anyone can play at a former level after sitting a year (not due to injury), being disdained by the majority of the country, and knowing your teammates know what a POS you are.  Now maybe they don’t show it because that’s what teammates do but be darn sure there will be protests at every game and #22 will be discussed all year long.  Then throw in settlement talks etc and mentally nobody is the same-just not possible. 
 

can’t wait until this explodes in their faces and maybe sends a cautionary tale the rest of the league( yeah I know I’m smoking something)

 

Previous bad behavior by sports stars suggests differently ...

 

• Ray Lewis pled guilty to obstruction of justice in the stabbing deaths of 2 men in 2000.  The next season he was named Defensive Player of the Year.
• In 2003, Kobe Bryant was charged with sexual assault but the charges were dropped and he settled out of court with the victim.  He also issued an apology.
• In 2009 and 2010, Ben Roethlisberger was accused of rape by two different women, one in Nevada and one in Georgia.   The Nevada case was settled out of court.  The DA in the Georgia case declined to prosecute because he didn't think he could get a conviction and because the plaintiff requested that the criminal charges be dropped.  She did not recant her story nor did she settle out of court with Roethlisberger.   Roethlisberger was suspended for the first 6 games of the 2010 NFL season.

 

Winning "fixes" just about everything ... at least if a player isn't convicted of conspiracy to commit murder or murder itself.  Rae Carruth was convicted of conspiring to kill his pregnant girlfriend, and Aaron Hernandez was convicted of murdering his fiance's sister's boyfriend.  He was later charged but acquitted of murdering two other men. 

 

We'll have to see how things shake out for Watson.  My guess is that if he returns to being the QB he was in 2020, fans will conveniently forget his bad behavior.

Edited March 24, 2022 by SoTier

[Malazan]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

We'll have to see how things shake out for Watson.  My guess is that if he returns to being the QB he was in 2020, fans will conveniently forget his bad behavior.

 

Ding Ding. Ding. Go look at the Jets and Dolphins forums. Watson shouldn't be allowed in the league and should be in jail. Everyone should quit being fans of the browns..

 

..then Tyreek "beats children" Hill is a possibility and "It wasn't that bad." and "He's serving probation so he's paid the price already".

 

Well, the Jets until he chose the Dolphins then it was "I'm glad. He's not that good and I didn't want to have to cheer for him."