McDermott’s plan for a pass rush IMO

[streetkings01]

2 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

His model doesn’t work against KC when it mattered the most… trying the same thing for the third year in a row is insanity….

We were 13 seconds away from sweeping KC……stop acting like they’re some unstoppable juggernaut that Buffalo can’t seem to conquer!

[RyanC883]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I think the plan for the pass rush is about what you say, and it's pretty obvious. 

 

McDermott wants pressure, pressure, and more pressure.   He wants it off the edge and up the middle.  And he wants it with four guys.   

 

He like mobile guys on the end, guys who have some strength, some quickness, some speed.  He wants them to be relentless, and he wants them to hold the edge against the run.  He wants the tackles to be strong enough to hold the point of attack, but skilled enough to get upfield so that the QB feels the pressure up the middle and kept step up to avoid the rush from the edge.  

 

Not that that's all that original; it's basic football.  But it's what McDermott strives for.  

 

He has Oliver in the middle, but he really hasn't had a second guy to get pressure inside.  Harry gave him some of that late in the season, and Star on occasion, but he wanted and needed someone more consistent.  

 

I think in his heart of hearts, he doesn't want a star edge rusher or an Aaron Donald.  He doesn't think the model is to have a guy who must be double-teamed constantly.   He wants four guys, each of whom is going to win his one-on-ones sometimes, so that the defense really doesn't know who to double.   With guys who pretty strong and pretty quick (look at all the Bills edge rushers, and even the tackles), he can play games with them, move them around, find ways to create advantages.  

 

I think he has the DEs he wants to work with (for this season; he'll need help there soon), and I think he has guys now who can give him what he wants in the middle.  

 

I think it's amazing how they've been on five-year of continuous upgrades to the roster.  

 

I think you are right, and hope you are wrong.  You need an impact player in the front 7.  Hoping for guys to consistently win 1 on 1's is bad, IMO, because you'll run into pro bowl guards, tackles, then it's 3 guys rushing.  Rushing 4 and having an A Donald type or Chandler Jones makes the other 3 that much better.  

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

My concern is that three Bills players were in the top 50 players in PRWR in 2021 - and two of them were Hughes and Addison.  The third was Oliver, who had the 5th highest double team rate of those top 50 players.

 

PRWR is a good metric to look at.  It’s more stable than sacks overall.  But I worry that outside of Oliver we don’t have the players to pressure QBs.  He’s going to need more help.  That could be a draft pick, a free agent or development of players already on the roster. 

 

hoping for all 3

[Billzgobowlin]

3 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Is to get big physical DT’s that can push the pocket and let the 3 DE’s we drafted get up field and get sacks once the QB’s are forced out the pocket. We’ve been linked to way more DT’s then DE’s. I don’t think DE is that high on McDermott’s wish list. 

We are going after DTs because we sucked at stopping the run inside

[daz28]

3 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Does a guided tour past the QB who then takes off for 15 yards count as a pressure? Asking for a friend.

Sooo much this.  Nothing and I mean nothing hurt more than Mahomes just looking around for 3 cesonds, seeing everyone covered, then making an easy escape.  We needed to get TO him.  Containing him, and even strong coverage doesn't work.  The play designs also made it impossible for Edmunds to be some new super hero spy AND cover at the same time guy.  People love to rag on the guy, but no one could have done what he was being asked to do.  Don't think for a second that other teams aren't reviewing that film right now as we type.  

[BillsFanForever19]

Improving the middle of the D is fine. But if we're relying on Epenesa or Basham on the other side of Rousseau, we got problems. Epenesa in two years has shown nothing and Basham was a healthy scratch most of the season.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

We were 13 seconds away from sweeping KC……stop acting like they’re some unstoppable juggernaut that Buffalo can’t seem to conquer!

Uhhh....actually we've lost 3 out of 4 over the last 2 years and 0-2 in the playoffs giving up 80 points.  That might be a small sample size but it's kind of a mini-naut.

[streetkings01]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Uhhh....actually we've lost 3 out of 4 over the last 2 years and 0-2 in the playoffs giving up 80 points.  That might be a small sample size but it's kind of a mini-naut.

We were 13 seconds away from sweeping the Chiefs……I’m going off what I saw this season……the 2020 season was 2 seasons ago. 

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

We were 13 seconds away from sweeping KC……stop acting like they’re some unstoppable juggernaut that Buffalo can’t seem to conquer!

When they can actually do it in the Playoffs then you can talk to me that way. Until then you are wrong and excepting failure, I choose not to support not being good enough.

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Uhhh....actually we've lost 3 out of 4 over the last 2 years and 0-2 in the playoffs giving up 80 points.  That might be a small sample size but it's kind of a mini-naut.

Some people accept 2nd best and close enough. I’d rather make the necessary changes to get past our failures.

[gobills404]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

Yeah what were they ranked in sacks?

According to the locked on bills podcast the Bills were 1st in pressure rate and 6th in sack rate

 

4 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Pressure with out sacks doesn’t cause a loss of yardage and allows qb’s like Mahomes and Brady to eat us alive. It works against Tua & Jones and those types, but we aren’t seeing those types in the latter rounds of the playoffs…

Hard to get sacks when YACtrick mahomes can just throw quick passes watch his receivers get 200+ yards after the catch

[Meatloaf63]

2 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

According to the locked on bills podcast the Bills were 1st in pressure rate and 6th in sack rate

 

Hard to get sacks when YACtrick mahomes can just throw quick passes watch his receivers get 200+ yards after the catch

They should not be that open that quickly. But the bigger problem was when we did cover our d line wiffed every time at tackling him.

[pennstate10]

5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

it also will free up our best pass rusher— Oliver— to move around and penetrate. 

[gobills404]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

They should not be that open that quickly. But the bigger problem was when we did cover our d line wiffed every time at tackling him.

That’s what happens when you have to play with huge cushions because your entire secondary is slow af

[Tanoros]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Don't know.   McDermott wants pressures.   Sacks are nice, but in his world pressures are what make the defense work. 

 

So, if you keep wanting more of things that McDermott doesn't care about, you're going to be continually disappointed.  

Just to add, he wants pressures because it forces the ball out early, and allows the defense to play back a bit and come forward and make tackles on underneath/intermediate level throws. 
 

The point being, anyone would love more sacks, but our D is geared around pressures minimum and we do that. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Tanoros

[daz28]

15 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

They should not be that open that quickly. But the bigger problem was when we did cover our d line wiffed every time at tackling him.

That was in the rare occurrence that they actually had a reasonable chance to tackle him.  Most times he just threw up his peacock feathers, and took off long before that into no man's land.  Everyone wants to focus on 13 seconds, and the OT drive, but I'm still hurting from watching what I just described.  At least I got to feel how everyone that plays against Josh feels for a night.  

10 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

Just to add, he wants pressures because it forces the ball out early, and allows the defense to play back a bit and come forward and make tackles on underneath/intermediate level throws. 
 

The point being, anyone would love more sacks, but our D is geared around pressures minimum and we do that. 

This works great on rookie and all-pro, but when you put it on all-madden, it doesn't work anymore.  

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

33 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

According to the locked on bills podcast the Bills were 1st in pressure rate and 6th in sack rate

 

Hard to get sacks when YACtrick mahomes can just throw quick passes watch his receivers get 200+ yards after the catch

 

I don't know what sack and pressure rate is or what it really means but we were 11th in the league getting to the QB which isn't terrible but we just lost 2 guys who accounted for 9 total sacks. No way or at least I hope there is no way we aren't going after 1 of the better pass rushers imo. 

 

The Bucs defense were all over Mahomes in the SB and the Bengals defense shut him down also. 

[gobills404]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I don't know what sack and pressure rate is or what it really means but we were 11th in the league getting to the QB which isn't terrible but we just lost 2 guys who accounted for 9 total sacks. No way or at least I hope there is no way we aren't going after 1 of the better pass rushers imo. 

 

The Bucs defense were all over Mahomes in the SB and the Bengals defense shut him down also. 

It means number of pressures and sacks on per dropback basis. A big reason the bills sack totals look mediocre is because they faced the fewest amount of pass attempts in the league.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I mean we have 3 picks in the first 2 rounds of the past two drafts invested at DE.  Makes sense they plan to get them on the field more

 

I still think they will add a DE if the right one is there for the right price.  I mean they already were in on Ogbah supposedly showing interest in a DE.  
 

So I won’t rule out Chandler or Hunter yet as there has been reports we have looked into both.  

The problem is that all 3 are question marks.   

 

Rosseau has the best chance.  He is already good at setting the edge and you could imagine his pass rush skills getting better.

 

I think at this point AJ Epinesa is a JAG.   Maybe the last DE you keep on a 53 man roster because he players special teams.  
 

We don’t know enough about Boogie yet.
 

I do think the long term was plan was to be set at DE in the future with these picks.  But I’m not sure that will be the case

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think you are right, and hope you are wrong.  You need an impact player in the front 7.  Hoping for guys to consistently win 1 on 1's is bad, IMO, because you'll run into pro bowl guards, tackles, then it's 3 guys rushing.  Rushing 4 and having an A Donald type or Chandler Jones makes the other 3 that much better.  

 

hoping for all 3

 

Oliver was an impact player the last half of the season. I'm expecting even more this year.

[stuvian]

barring a splashy FA signing we may never get a big name pass rusher. Under Clappy we're averaging around 40 sacks a season not adjusting for the 17th game. In 2019, I feel like we got good pressure from average talent by rotating fresh legs through at DE while counting on our DTs to occupy two blockers. The rest will be from coaching guys up.

[LABILLBACKER]

48 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

The problem is that all 3 are question marks.   

 

Rosseau has the best chance.  He is already good at setting the edge and you could imagine his pass rush skills getting better.

 

I think at this point AJ Epinesa is a JAG.   Maybe the last DE you keep on a 53 man roster because he players special teams.  
 

We don’t know enough about Boogie yet.
 

I do think the long term was plan was to be set at DE in the future with these picks.  But I’m not sure that will be the case

I'd be lying if I wasn't concerned about AJE & Boogie. In his 2nd season I was expecting Epenesa to break out and he didn't. Groot will need a 6-8 sack kind of season to quell my concerns about his 2nd year. With all this said we need a double digit sack artist. And yes it's going to cost. Our DT improvements will help but we need more. We can't expect older guys like Hughes to get there anymore.