McDermott’s plan for a pass rush IMO

[Dopey]

28 minutes ago, Lothar said:

I'm ok with getting Hughes back. He'll cost less than half of Jones. His pressure percentage was 11th best in the league. If the new-look middle forces the pocket to collapse, he'll get more sacks. Hughes for 5mil > Jones @ 15mil.  Plus we know he's good in the locker room.

He even got a few holding calls go his way last year.

[BarleyNY]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Bills pass rush win rate was 6th in the league.  That's the percentage the defensive lineman apply pressure in 2.5 seconds. 

 

I'd say that's getting it done.  

Much too sensible.

My concern is that three Bills players were in the top 50 players in PRWR in 2021 - and two of them were Hughes and Addison.  The third was Oliver, who had the 5th highest double team rate of those top 50 players.

 

PRWR is a good metric to look at.  It’s more stable than sacks overall.  But I worry that outside of Oliver we don’t have the players to pressure QBs.  He’s going to need more help.  That could be a draft pick, a free agent or development of players already on the roster. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

His model doesn’t work against KC when it mattered the most… trying the same thing for the third year in a row is insanity….

This is when the model breaks down. Not having that one guy who can make that one play when you need it is missing from the dline. Oliver has shown flashes but needs another guy. Maybe One of our early picks can be that guy, but I’d love a Chandler Jones who can turn it on in a “must have situation “. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by atlbillsfan1975

[Dopey]

31 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

Yeah what were they ranked in sacks?

Tied for 10th in sacks, but tied for 3rd in ints. Pressure also creates ints.

I know, I know we played crappy QBs. 😃

[bmur66]

Does a guided tour past the QB who then takes off for 15 yards count as a pressure? Asking for a friend.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I think the plan for the pass rush is about what you say, and it's pretty obvious. 

 

McDermott wants pressure, pressure, and more pressure.   He wants it off the edge and up the middle.  And he wants it with four guys.   

 

He like mobile guys on the end, guys who have some strength, some quickness, some speed.  He wants them to be relentless, and he wants them to hold the edge against the run.  He wants the tackles to be strong enough to hold the point of attack, but skilled enough to get upfield so that the QB feels the pressure up the middle and kept step up to avoid the rush from the edge.  

 

Not that that's all that original; it's basic football.  But it's what McDermott strives for.  

 

He has Oliver in the middle, but he really hasn't had a second guy to get pressure inside.  Harry gave him some of that late in the season, and Star on occasion, but he wanted and needed someone more consistent.  

 

I think in his heart of hearts, he doesn't want a star edge rusher or an Aaron Donald.  He doesn't think the model is to have a guy who must be double-teamed constantly.   He wants four guys, each of whom is going to win his one-on-ones sometimes, so that the defense really doesn't know who to double.   With guys who pretty strong and pretty quick (look at all the Bills edge rushers, and even the tackles), he can play games with them, move them around, find ways to create advantages.  

 

I think he has the DEs he wants to work with (for this season; he'll need help there soon), and I think he has guys now who can give him what he wants in the middle.  

 

I think it's amazing how they've been on five-year of continuous upgrades to the roster.  

If you don't have a guy that needs to be double teamed on every play, the offense is able to double team at the point of attack on runs and scrape off the double team to pick off a LB at the next level. In other words, it allows the offense to dictate where the numbers mismatch occurs. On passing plays, a stunt or a blitz is easier to pick up with just the 5 o-line guys ( allowing TE and RB to be released into a pass route ).  I think the McD thought that Oliver would be that guy to create the need to be double teamed.  Unfortunately, that has happened yet.

[Sierra Foothills]

Yes, the OP is correct.

 

Last season the Bills had only one person who could create pressure up the middle.

 

Things like getting the QB "off his spot," getting hands in the passing lanes, obscuring downfield vision, and causing proximal discomfort/panic are all functions of the interior pass rush.

 

With an outside pass rush the QB can always climb the ladder. With an inside pass rush that's not possible. This is why every team would like to find "their Aaron Donald" and why the Bills selected Ed Oliver so high.

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

it also will free up our best pass rusher— Oliver— to move around and penetrate. 

I've got a new name for my johnson. Ed Oliver. They seem to be best at doing the same thing....

 

Here all week....

 

[somnus00]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Bills pass rush win rate was 6th in the league.  That's the percentage the defensive lineman apply pressure in 2.5 seconds. 

 

I'd say that's getting it done.  

Much too sensible.

This is why I think CB2 is so important. Get the QB to hold onto the ball for 3 seconds instead of 2.5. You'll see more sacks as well. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I've never heard McDermott ever say he doesn't want sacks. That doesn't make any sense.

Where did I say he doesn't want sacks.   I've looked, but I can't find it.  Maybe you can help me. 

 

What McDermott has said many times is that he wants pressures.  He says the sacks will take care of themselves.  

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

He even got a few holding calls go his way last year.

Wonder what the 'holding against' vs 'personal foul' on rate was.  Didn't remember quite so many last season. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Tenhigh

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Pressure with out sacks doesn’t cause a loss of yardage and allows qb’s like Mahomes and Brady to eat us alive. It works against Tua & Jones and those types, but we aren’t seeing those types in the latter rounds of the playoffs…

Well, I don't disagree with that view.   That's what I think, too.   But that is not how McDermott sets his defense.   He wants consistent from four rushers.  He wants guys who can win at the point of attack, and he wants to create schemes that create free rushers.  

 

I've said before that I think that his defense is designed to produce great outcomes over the long run, like fewest points per game and fewest yards per game.  But playoff games aren't won over the long run.  They're won in sixty minute intervals.   McDermott's long-run defense last season was great, but it's not a defense that has a high probability of making a stop on one play.  

[Logic]

I think that it has been demonstrated over the years that the McDermott/Frazier defense is at its best when it has a legitimate space-eating, two-gapping 1T that must be accounted for and must be routinely double teamed. 

When they have had such a player, it has allowed the undersized but speedy linebackers to flow freely to the ball carrier, and has allowed the 3T and the ends more one-on-one opportunities, and thus, more pressures on the quarterback. 

When they have not had such a player for whatever reason, the linebackers get engulfed by offensive linemen more frequently. The ends get doubled or chipped more regularly, and thus, do not get as many pressures on the quarterback. The 3T who should be making plays is instead often getting doubled himself.

It seems like a simple thing, and it makes some here roll their eyes, but it's the truth: Having a big man who can take up two blockers -- essentially eliminating an entire offensive player from the play -- allows what is generally an undersized defense to function SO much more effectively. It's why Star Lotulelei was one of their first big money signings when they got to Buffalo. It's why they went out and spent $7M a year on DaQuan Jones.

In addition to the above, I DO think interior pressure is important to them. Hence the high draft pick spent on Ed Oliver, hence the addition of a big 1T this year to finally free Oliver up to wreak havoc, and hence the addition of Tim Settle.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Logic

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

I've never heard McDermott ever say he doesn't want sacks. That doesn't make any sense.

I've heard that he also doesn't want Edmunds to make big plays, so who knows...

[Meatloaf63]

17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I don't disagree with that view.   That's what I think, too.   But that is not how McDermott sets his defense.   He wants consistent from four rushers.  He wants guys who can win at the point of attack, and he wants to create schemes that create free rushers.  

 

I've said before that I think that his defense is designed to produce great outcomes over the long run, like fewest points per game and fewest yards per game.  But playoff games aren't won over the long run.  They're won in sixty minute intervals.   McDermott's long-run defense last season was great, but it's not a defense that has a high probability of making a stop on one play.  

Against KC the frustrating part was guys were close, but couldn’t seal the deal, Mahomes made them look silly. Just a sack or two could have changed the outcome of the game, but we were not capable of doing it, Cincinnati was. What is the answer? Better athletes?

21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I don't disagree with that view.   That's what I think, too.   But that is not how McDermott sets his defense.   He wants consistent from four rushers.  He wants guys who can win at the point of attack, and he wants to create schemes that create free rushers.  

 

I've said before that I think that his defense is designed to produce great outcomes over the long run, like fewest points per game and fewest yards per game.  But playoff games aren't won over the long run.  They're won in sixty minute intervals.   McDermott's long-run defense last season was great, but it's not a defense that has a high probability of making a stop on one play.  

McDermott also though guarding the sidelines against a dynamic offense with two time outs was a good idea LOL!!!

 

[The Jokeman]

48 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

I've got a new name for my johnson. Ed Oliver. They seem to be best at doing the same thing....

 

Here all week....

 

Being undersized and disappearing for long stretches?

[NoSaint]

I want to see us treat mahomes like Brett favre was treated by ol gregggg in the championship game 
 

we need one more imposing guy on the edge. 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, Lothar said:

I'm ok with getting Hughes back. He'll cost less than half of Jones. His pressure percentage was 11th best in the league. If the new-look middle forces the pocket to collapse, he'll get more sacks. Hughes for 5mil > Jones @ 15mil.  Plus we know he's good in the locker room.

Addison has proven to get more sacks compared to Hughes the last two seasons and might take less money. 

[MiltonWaddams]

13 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Being undersized and disappearing for long stretches?

Well, it disappears and re-appears...and disappears and reappears....

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

50 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Where did I say he doesn't want sacks.   I've looked, but I can't find it.  Maybe you can help me. 

 

What McDermott has said many times is that he wants pressures.  He says the sacks will take care of themselves.  

 

Your wording I guess just made me think that's what you meant, my mistake.

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Tied for 10th in sacks, but tied for 3rd in ints. Pressure also creates ints.

I know, I know we played crappy QBs. 😃

 

Not terrible but now we are losing our leader in sacks Mario Addison (7) and Jerry Hughes (2).