It's easy now to see how good teams have an advantage in free agency

[Johnny Hammersticks]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

So when do we sign a good free agent? 

We get it.  You don’t like the move for Saffold.  You want to make Jacksonville type moves with peanuts for salary cap space?  Come on man.

[Paup 1995MVP]

30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Beane is not a big-name free agent guy.   He's said it enough that I believe - free agency is to fill holes, the draft is where you build talent.   He isn't about to sign any of the best two or three players in free agency - they aren't hole fillers.  Diggs is the only really big name he has acquired, and he did that through the draft, too.  

 

About four or five years ago, Beane signed about four journeyman offensive linemen, including Feliciano.  I don't remember all the names.  Williams was one, too, I think.  Why did he do that?   Because he needed help on the offensive line, but he couldn't afford the best offensive linemen on the market.  Instead, he loaded the training camp roster with decent guys with experience and hoped he'd find a couple who stuck.  A guy like Saffold - a high draft pick with a really solid career who still can play - wasn't interested.  

 

Now it's different.   Beane wanted a lineman.  Actually, I think he wanted a guard.   He wasn't bottom fishing for a guy who might be able to fill the spot.   He went after, and could sign, a guy who can play at a high level, who will find himself between an experienced center and a good young tackle, whichever side he plays.  

 

My point is that the best players in free agency at a position of need for the Bills are now available to the Bills, and that is something that was much less true when the team didn't have Allen and wasn't winning consistently. 

 

 

That is as good a post as I have read on here in a long time Shaw66.  Totally agree.  I cringe thinking of playing for the Jags.  Heck their owner would rather their team be in London anyways.  They play in a college stadium in a BS city.  Nothing good about the Jacksonville Jaguars.

[Ben]

55 minutes ago, Success said:

I remember when we offered some lineman from Atlanta significantly more money, and he stayed there anyway.

 

It's better to be one of the "haves."

 

Tyson Clabo was his name

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Nothing about him says ‘Process’. I thought you followed the team..🤔

 

No but he is a good football player. We need more of those.

21 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

We get it.  You don’t like the move for Saffold.  You want to make Jacksonville type moves with peanuts for salary cap space?  Come on man.

 

No. I want to stop bringing in older mid tier guys and try and get 1 or 2 guys who make an impact. That is what teame who are close do. Oh and just for the record my view on Saffold was out there before Beane made this move. What do you want me to do? Pretend I like a guy more than I do cos the Bills signed him?

Edited March 14, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Ethan in Cleveland]

50 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Beane is not a big-name free agent guy.   He's said it enough that I believe - free agency is to fill holes, the draft is where you build talent.   He isn't about to sign any of the best two or three players in free agency - they aren't hole fillers.  Diggs is the only really big name he has acquired, and he did that through the draft, too.  

 

About four or five years ago, Beane signed about four journeyman offensive linemen, including Feliciano.  I don't remember all the names.  Williams was one, too, I think.  Why did he do that?   Because he needed help on the offensive line, but he couldn't afford the best offensive linemen on the market.  Instead, he loaded the training camp roster with decent guys with experience and hoped he'd find a couple who stuck.  A guy like Saffold - a high draft pick with a really solid career who still can play - wasn't interested.  

 

Now it's different.   Beane wanted a lineman.  Actually, I think he wanted a guard.   He wasn't bottom fishing for a guy who might be able to fill the spot.   He went after, and could sign, a guy who can play at a high level, who will find himself between an experienced center and a good young tackle, whichever side he plays.  

 

My point is that the best players in free agency at a position of need for the Bills are now available to the Bills, and that is something that was much less true when the team didn't have Allen and wasn't winning consistently. 

 

 

This just isn't true.  Poyer and Hyde are the two of the best players on defense and they were signed before Beane or Allen were on the team. Diggs was acquired via trade. Dawkins was already here and extended. 

Beane is no different than any other GM. He has wasted tons of cap space and dollars on bad players and he has had some really nice free agent signings.  He has made some great trades and he has made some bad ones.  He has drafted Allen and some good players but he has some busts too. No better and no worse than any other GM. If Jets take Allen, he likely drafts Rosen or Darnold and he would be out of a job by now. 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No but he is a good football player. We need more of those.

 

No. I want to stop bringing in older mid tier guys and try and get 1 or 2 guys who make an impact. That is what teame who are close do. Oh and just for the record my view on Saffold was out there before Beane made this move. What do you want me to do? Pretend I like a guy more than I do cos the Bills signed him?

Fair enough.  Some examples of these 1 or 2 “impact” players Buffalo could afford in FA right now?  At positions of need, of course.  Thanks.

[Green Lightning]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No but he is a good football player. We need more of those.

 

No. I want to stop bringing in older mid tier guys and try and get 1 or 2 guys who make an impact. That is what teame who are close do.

If our window is next year, Saffold is a great signing. Beane is going to draft a guard to understudy Roger and have an affordable rookie deal for a few years. I don't disagree we need some impact players. but sinking all of our scant FA cash on a guard isn't high on my list. I'd rather a talented TE 2 and an impact pass rusher be targeted. Saffold will a great addition.

[Niagara Dude]

17 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

That is as good a post as I have read on here in a long time Shaw66.  Totally agree.  I cringe thinking of playing for the Jags.  Heck their owner would rather their team be in London anyways.  They play in a college stadium in a BS city.  Nothing good about the Jacksonville Jaguars.

So far we signed Sanders last season and Saffold this season.  Both players are on the wrong side of 30 and we still don't have numbers on Saffold,  I do agree,  that having Allen helps,  but football careers are short and players follow the money and want to get paid.  

 

Look at our defence,  you have plenty of guys all making great money and I still don't see any lights out play makers.  Not one offered any discount to play with the Bills and you can include Morse today.  He had a little leverage after finishing strong last season and ended up getting 12 million guaranteed today.  So he signed for market value & Bills only saved 2 million on his cap with now a 9 mll cap number.

 

I don't think you can call this something amazing bargain deal because he wants to stay in Buffalo.

[Green Lightning]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

This just isn't true.  Poyer and Hyde are the two of the best players on defense and they were signed before Beane or Allen were on the team. Diggs was acquired via trade. Dawkins was already here and extended. 

Beane is no different than any other GM. He has wasted tons of cap space and dollars on bad players and he has had some really nice free agent signings.  He has made some great trades and he has made some bad ones.  He has drafted Allen and some good players but he has some busts too. No better and no worse than any other GM. If Jets take Allen, he likely drafts Rosen or Darnold and he would be out of a job by now. 

 

Yeah, anyone can do the job. Beane, Donahoe, Buddy Nix, all the same. Crap shoot.  Well, little equation for you:  Drafting Allen > everything else.  

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Fair enough.  Some examples of these 1 or 2 “impact” players Buffalo could afford in FA right now?  At positions of need, of course.  Thanks.

 

Andrew Norwell and Chandler Jones were my top 2 names. Let's see where the numbers end up and revisit but both were achievable IMO. 

[boater]

1 hour ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Lol, yeah as of right now the bad teams with lots of cap space are getting all the good candy

Beane, former NFL Executive of the Year, will scan the remnants and get the bargain candy.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

No. I want to stop bringing in older mid tier guys and try and get 1 or 2 guys who make an impact. That is what teame who are close do. Oh and just for the record my view on Saffold was out there before Beane made this move. What do you want me to do? Pretend I like a guy more than I do cos the Bills signed him?

You just have to recognize that if that's what you want, Beane will disappoint you year after year.  If Beane wants an impact guy, he trades draft picks for him.   

 

Beane and McDermott are not operating out of a "this is our year" model.   They aren't looking to add a special talent who will take them over the top for a year or two.  I don't think they even thought of Antonio Brown that way, even though it turned out that he only had a year left.  

 

Plugging holes is different from making an impact.  In Beaneland, free agency is for plugging holes.  Beane wants Diggs and Rousseau and Josh and Davis and Basham and Edmunds to make an impact.   Like it or not, that's the model. 

 

Now, when Josh has won a couple of Super Bowls, will Beane change his mind a bit and go after the equivalent of Randy Moss?   Maybe, but not yet.  Not this year.   

 

I think you'll need to write a more persuasive post if you want Beane to change his philosophy.  

Edited March 14, 2022 by Shaw66

[BruceVilanch]

55 minutes ago, boater said:

Beane, former NFL Executive of the Year, will scan the remnants and get the bargain candy.

Chick O' Sticks and Cow tales!

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Andrew Norwell and Chandler Jones were my top 2 names. Let's see where the numbers end up and revisit but both were achievable IMO. 

I mean Alex Cappa, who many consider to be in the same “range” as Norwell in terms of FA value just signed a 4 year/40 million contract.  Chandler is projected to make ~16.5 million/year.  I’ve seen the salary cap really isn’t a thing argument, but where do you see $$ like this coming from?  Not trying to be snarky.  I’m just wondering why you think these type of deals are achievable.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

Yeah, anyone can do the job. Beane, Donahoe, Buddy Nix, all the same. Crap shoot.  Well, little equation for you:  Drafting Allen > everything else.  

100% agree. He got the QB. But he was set on drafting a QB so if Allen goes to Browns or Jets, Beane ends up with one of the busts. So the equation is really Luck + Drafting Allen > everything else. 

The problem is the everything else part of that equation gets bigger and bigger each year. Already two wasted opportunities at a SB.  Im not as worried about the cap situation as others. Im more worried about the lack of all in mentality to win last year. Hopefully that changes this off-season. 

So far so good.  Outside of overpaying for a gunner, most of the other moves have been good and its early. I posted in another thread I'm not judging Beane's off-season until we see it in totality. 

[boater]

12 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

Chick O' Sticks and Cow tales!

Don't forget Squirrel Nut Zippers.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I mean Alex Cappa, who many consider to be in the same “range” as Norwell in terms of FA value just signed a 4 year/40 million contract.  Chandler is projected to make ~16.5 million/year.  I’ve seen the salary cap really isn’t a thing argument, but where do you see $$ like this coming from?  Not trying to be snarky.  I’m just wondering why you think these type of deals are achievable.

 

We have seen the Bills make space this week there is more space to be made. Norwell wouldn't have to earn $10m this year. I posted a potential contract structure for him a couple of weeks ago. I have done one for Chandler in the last few days. 

 

If those numbers end up way out maybe it was never possible. If that is the case Ill put my hands up. 

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

All those years we sat here moaning about how the Bills never could sign anyone good in free agency.  Unless the Bills put on a full-court press and spent more money than any other team wanted to spend, the Bills got no one.   All those guys we talked about and hoped for, and Mario Williams was the only one who ever came.  And why did Williams come?   Because the money was the only thing that was important to him.  

 

TKO!  I have the hat.  He was great before injury.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We have seen the Bills make space this week there is more space to be made. Norwell wouldn't have to earn $10m this year. I posted a potential contract structure for him a couple of weeks ago. I have done one for Chandler in the last few days. 

 

If those numbers end up way out maybe it was never possible. If that is the case Ill put my hands up. 

But why kick the can down the road with important players such as Knox, Oliver and Edmunds (debatable) approaching the time for new deals?  I just don’t understand your logic with the way Beane has always handled free agency.  

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So when do we sign a good free agent? 

Only @Shaw66 could take a victory lap on FA because we used our distinct advantage to sign a geriatric guard.