Edit! McKenzie is back on a 2 year deal worth 4.4 million

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This is awesome. I think if McKenzie is actually utilized in an offense consistently he can basically be a poor man's Tyreek Hill. And anyone criticizing me saying that's a good thing... look at the other WRs in our WR corps ahead of him vs the other WRs in KC's WR corps..

 

For some reason Daboll stopped using him this year until the 2nd half of the season. Loved what we did with him in 2020 with all the motions and jet sweeps.

 

The reasons aren't far to find:

1) needed to get away from 4 and 5 WR sets in favor of extra blockers, due to OL

2) wanted to use both Emmanuel Sanders and Beasley

3) Knox emerging as a legit blocking and receiving TE and getting close to 90% of the snaps

 

so if you've got Diggs, Sanders, and Beasley on the field in a (1,1) or Diggs and Sanders in a (1,2) personnel set, Davis and McKenzie aren't seeing the field

 

This is just my opinion, but I think Daboll felt, going into the season, that the legit way to defeat teams doubling Diggs and bracketing Beasley was to add a similar skillset WR who could play both roles and take off some heat from them, in Sanders.  That's why Sanders was the biggest budget add.  But for various reasons, it didn't quite work that way, what's the saying, "everyone has a plan until you get punched in the mouth"?

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So "I hate that guy" is kind of a running theme from Hyde.   2020, the team is boarding to depart for a game, it's snowy, it's cold, they're interviewing Hyde who is all bundled up and McKenzie strolls by wearing Chubbies short shorts and matching short sleeve shirt and Hyde spontaneously blurts out "I HATE THAT GUY!"

 

McKenzie is a noted trash-talker to his own teammates and evidently any time he catches one over them in practice, they get a major earful o' crap (or if they're sore and taking it off; Hyde said "you'd think he'd get tired and run out of energy, but he never does")

 

According to Hyde he also drove them nuts when he was on the scout team giving them "looks" for Lamar Jackson because he watched film of Jackson and instead of sticking to the script, he went off-script to do the kind of stuff Jackson actually does...Hyde credited him after the game for helping them prepare

 

 

Fair.  McKenzie has certainly developed Big Time from when he got here, both as a receiver and a blocker

So I suppose a lot of it is, do they have the want-to to put in the time and the work?

 

I would really have liked Cordarelle Patterson but I suppose he's out of our price range

It's like being a tight end which is extremely hard to learn at the NFL level... You need to be able to block like a tackle... Outrun linebackers.. out muscle defensive backs... And Catch like a wide receiver 

 

It's a very tough skill set to develop at the NFL level 

 

Likewise this hybrid wide receiver, running back, returner role is tough to develop in the NFL... 

 

You need to be able to catch the ball consistently when called upon, have a bigger route tree than a running back.. run with vision and speed, have ball security, and be a capable blocker ... And your asked to perform while usually not playing every down in the flow of the game

 

It is a specialized role that requires specialized development 

 

I like McKenzie he has developed into a good football player.. notice I said football player not wide receiver , or returner etc

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So predictable....Even on Spring Ahead Sunday, I can set my clock by you

 

If you don't think handing a 2 year $8M deal to an undersized 6th year receiver who can't handle kick return duties and is coming off 15 active games with only 178 yards receiving on the season is an over pay...............then you aren't very good at math........so maybe having a clock you have to set manually isn't right for you. 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow, while you're right about the stat total being for both playoff games, Beasley had a fantastic game against the Chiefs by any metric.

 

6 receptions for 60 yds on 8 targets is a damned fine game for a WR who played less than 50% of the snaps in that game

He also had a damned fine game against NO and the 2nd half against Tampa

 

Those are all games that suggest his game can be what it was in 2020 when (whatever it was - the play calls, the defensive coverage, the alignment of stars) were right.

 

Beasley's stats have always varied pretty widely from game to game depending upon the game plan and the defensive coverage

 

Yes, on average they did fall off the last 11 games (after he got speared in Miami) but you seem determined to overlook the strong contributions he did have in that time period, which is just as blindered (IMO) as the folks who insist that there wasn't a drop off.

 

 

 

 Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see how those 3 games show he can be what he was in 2020. 56.6 yards a game and no TDs in what clearly were his best 3 games in the final 11. Meanwhile there were many bad games in that mix. 

 

 As I said in my previous post, I really like Cole and am thankful for his 3 years here, but I think it was pretty clear he and Sanders hit a wall once November rolled around.

 

 Some people are saying maybe it was playcalling or defensive scheme, but I don't think it was either. With regards to playcalling wouldn't the playcalling lean on Beasley more and his numbers at least maintain once Sanders numbers started to fall off a cliff, not lessen? With defensive scheme, about halfway through the year defenses started taking away the deep stuff, which should've been right up Beasley's alley, but instead we saw his YPG cut to less than half vs the first 7 games.

 

 IMO it's time to get younger at the WR#2 & WR#3 spots and let Diggs be the vet of the group. It's time for Gabe & McKenzie to get their chance to be starters. Draft a guy in the first 3 rounds to create some competition and depth. Loved Beasley's time here, but I just think its time has come and gone. 

 

 

[The Dean]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I would really have liked Cordarelle Patterson but I suppose he's out of our price range

 

That's the guy I had targeted, too. I think the Bills could have afforded him (and maybe they still can). Might be a bit of a luxury now, but I really wouldn't hate it if they still got him. I think he's a fantastic weapon.

 

Without knowing the real details of Dirty's contract, this is clearly wild speculation. I do think McKenzie may have been able to get a "better" contract than what the Bills likely gave him. But I don't think it would be that much more total possibility money over two years. Maybe a longer deal. More guaranteed.  Just a guess on my part, of course.

 

I will say, the signing really made me smile today.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

True, belichick refused to adjust, but Mckenzie still looked deadly when the ball touched his hands and he made some great catches.  I don't expect him to be like that every week, but the bills don't sign him without Dorsey telling beane he wants to use him in his offense. I'm excited to see what Dorsey has planned for Mckenzies speed.

 

Yep on all counts.  Like I said upthread, watching his highlights from that game never grows old.  Will be interesting to see what Dorsey and Joe Brady cook up.

 

And completely agree, Beane is not out there hauling in players according to some abstract theoretical scale o' goodness.  He is 100% looking for the type of players the coaches tell him they need.  He didn't go out there and sign Sanders in a vacuum without Daboll making a case that a WR with Sanders chops was their top offensive priority.  He didn't re-sign McKenzie without Dorsey making a case for a player with his skills (mostly that uncoachable thing, speed)

[Rocky Landing]

Honestly, I think Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Kumerow, Stevenson, (and maybe a sixth that is already on the team-- Hodgins, Gentry?) is not a bad WR room. Talent, versatility, diversity, chemistry-- it's got it all. 

 

Not saying they shouldn't add to the corp in the draft, or even free agency-- but if they don't, I won't be upset. We could roll with these guys. And going with five WRs on the 53 (which many teams do), gives the Bills room to add playmakers at TE, or RB, or defense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If you don't think handing a 2 year $8M deal to an undersized 6th year receiver who can't handle kick return duties and is coming off 15 active games with only 178 yards receiving on the season is an over pay...............then you aren't very good at math........so maybe having a clock you have to set manually isn't right for you. 

 

 

So.  Predictable.

 

Do you know the specifics of the deal yet?   No.  You do not.

 

So while you're sneering at math skills and declaiming about overpayment, most cap-savvy denizens wait to see what the contract actually is first.

 

In another thread I deconstructed how Feliciano's "3 year $14.4M" contract was actually a 1 year, $4.4M contract split between last and this season.  I expect when the numbers come out, we're going to see an analogous breakdown for McKenzie.  Spoiler: he's not getting $4M per year even if that's the AAV on the contract.

 

9 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Honestly, I think Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Kumerow, Stevenson, (and maybe a sixth that is already on the team-- Hodgins, Gentry?) is not a bad WR room. Talent, versatility, diversity, chemistry-- it's got it all. 

 

Not saying they shouldn't add to the corp in the draft, or even free agency-- but if they don't, I won't be upset. We could roll with these guys. And going with five WRs on the 53 (which many teams do), gives the Bills room to add playmakers at TE, or RB, or defense.

 

I would 100% be upset if we don't add, both at TE and WR

 

Kumerow hasn't shown he can get open and catch the ball consistently against NFL-quality DBs.  Ditto Gentry.

Hodgins and Stevenson haven't shown they can play in the NFL yet.

 

That WR room would have the properties of a creek in Missouri August, which is to say plenty rocky, and not much depth

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If you don't think handing a 2 year $8M deal to an undersized 6th year receiver who can't handle kick return duties and is coming off 15 active games with only 178 yards receiving on the season is an over pay...............then you aren't very good at math........so maybe having a clock you have to set manually isn't right for you. 

 

I’m just curious what the alternative wide receivers were on your list and how much you were willing to pay them

[Process]

14 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Honestly, I think Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Kumerow, Stevenson, (and maybe a sixth that is already on the team-- Hodgins, Gentry?) is not a bad WR room. Talent, versatility, diversity, chemistry-- it's got it all. 

 

Not saying they shouldn't add to the corp in the draft, or even free agency-- but if they don't, I won't be upset. We could roll with these guys. And going with five WRs on the 53 (which many teams do), gives the Bills room to add playmakers at TE, or RB, or defense.

Kumerow is a career special teamer. Based on what we saw last year, Stevenson has 0 business being on an NFL football field anytime soon. 

 

We still need to add 2 WRs. 

[John from Riverside]

I think with this really stems from and maybe I’m wrong but when will dirty had a problem with fumbling the ball on the kick off returns what we don’t talk about is the amount of returns he actually took to the house that were called back on penalties we know that he can run the Jets week if that is a part of this year‘s office he will excel at it

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

That's the guy I had targeted, too. I think the Bills could have afforded him (and maybe they still can). Might be a bit of a luxury now, but I really wouldn't hate it if they still got him. I think he's a fantastic weapon.

 

Without knowing the real details of Dirty's contract, this is clearly wild speculation. I do think McKenzie may have been able to get a "better" contract than what the Bills likely gave him. But I don't think it would be that much more total possibility money over two years. Maybe a longer deal. More guaranteed.  Just a guess on my part, of course.

 

I will say, the signing really made me smile today.

 

If I were guessing, and this guess is based on McKenzie saying he had offers from 8 teams last off season, I think those teams offered McKenzie salary higher than what the Bills offered, but with very minimal guaranteed.  The Bills gave him a signing bonus AND guaranteed part of his salary and I think McKenzie "gets it" that contractually guaranteed money can be more important than the lure of more money you may never see if you're cut.

[ExWNYer]

6 hours ago, KingBoots8 said:

Kirk asking for $15m a year did that

 

I hope he signs with Jacksonville. He's already familiar with the owner and he'll still get to play with Josh Allen.

 

 

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m not kidding - I had a dream last night that he signed. 

 

Wet? 😇 

[Logic]

27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If you don't think handing a 2 year $8M deal to an undersized 6th year receiver who can't handle kick return duties and is coming off 15 active games with only 178 yards receiving on the season is an over pay...............then you aren't very good at math........so maybe having a clock you have to set manually isn't right for you. 

 

It’s generally wise to wait and see what the actual terms of the contract are — cap hits, signing bonuses, guaranteed money, incentives — before declaring it a “good” or “bad” signing. 
 

Then again, look who I’m talking to here.

[John from Riverside]

28 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

That's the guy I had targeted, too. I think the Bills could have afforded him (and maybe they still can). Might be a bit of a luxury now, but I really wouldn't hate it if they still got him. I think he's a fantastic weapon.

 

Without knowing the real details of Dirty's contract, this is clearly wild speculation. I do think McKenzie may have been able to get a "better" contract than what the Bills likely gave him. But I don't think it would be that much more total possibility money over two years. Maybe a longer deal. More guaranteed.  Just a guess on my part, of course.

 

I will say, the signing really made me smile today.

I know that Patterson wouldn’t of costed $4 million a year I really do have a suspicion that the bills are going to be low-key on bringing people in because beam doesn’t manipulate the cap like the Rams do

[The Dean]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If I were guessing, and this guess is based on McKenzie saying he had offers from 8 teams last off season, I think those teams offered McKenzie salary higher than what the Bills offered, but with very minimal guaranteed.  The Bills gave him a signing bonus AND guaranteed part of his salary and I think McKenzie "gets it" that contractually guaranteed money can be more important than the lure of more money you may never see if you're cut.

 

 

I'm absolutely convinced that's what happened, last year. And I think he realized staying in this offense was his best career move, other than perhaps a minor bit of cash.

 

 I'm thinking it might be just a little different, this year. If the teams that wanted him last year are back, they may realize last year's approach didn't work. I could be wrong..

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I know that Patterson wouldn’t of costed $4 million a year I really do have a suspicion that the bills are going to be low-key on bringing people in because beam doesn’t manipulate the cap like the Rams do

 

When you "know that Patterson wouldn't of costed (sic) $4M a year", is that because you know it would be higher?

 

Spotrac, which works very hard at these things, has his value at $9.1M?  2 yr, $18.2M

 

 

[John from Riverside]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

When you "know that Patterson wouldn't of costed (sic) $4M a year", is that because you know it would be higher?

 

Spotrac, which works very hard at these things, has his value at $9.1M?  2 yr, $18.2M

 

 

I’m thinking Patterson would’ve been out of our price range

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, WMDman said:

LETS GOOO

 

I wonder if this means Cole is definitely gone?

So, can we assume if Cole hasn’t found a trade, he will soon be cut?

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

True, belichick refused to adjust, but Mckenzie still looked deadly when the ball touched his hands and he made some great catches.  I don't expect him to be like that every week, but the bills don't sign him without Dorsey telling beane he wants to use him in his offense. I'm excited to see what Dorsey has planned for Mckenzies speed.

 

I agree he looked good but Belicheat is called the GOAT Head Coach whose specialty is defense and he could not or would not adjust defense.

I do not expect him to take hits like other WRs and Dorsey and Josh will need to make sure he gets ball with space not expecting him to have to fight for a ball or take a big hit.  Some teams will target him taking the fouls if he starts dominated like the JEST did when Steve Tasker took over a game as WR.

 

Date:      November 24, 1996 
Location:  Orchard Park. NY
Jim Kelly once said that no one could cover Steve Tasker as a wide receiver and he proved it that day. 

Steve Tasker had the most productive offensive game of his career as a Wide Receiver as he racked up 160 yards on 6 catches with 2 touchdowns vs. NJ Jets. His 160 yards receiving vs. Jets was 8 more yards than he recorded in his first 10 seasons in the league. 

 

Really bad video of that game  I was there.