If You Grew Up in Upstate NY.......

[SoTier]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:26 AM, Steve O said:

 

 

Back in the 60's and 70's the Rochester area was considered Upstate. There was even an insert magazine to our Sunday paper titled UPSTATE. Not sure exactly when the Rochester region became associated with Western NY or the Finger Lakes but it wasn't always that way.

 

^^^

 

On 3/8/2022 at 9:21 AM, Chef Jim said:

 

Just because the insert called it Upstate doesn't mean it ever was.  What that likely means is whoever decided to call it upstate was from NYC.  

 

This isn't rocket science, folks.  "Downstate" and "Upstate" are terms that have traditionally been used to differentiate NYC and its suburbs, including Long Island, from the rest of New York State.   Essentially, any part of New York State north of NYC was considered "Upstate".  As NYC's suburbs expanded northward into Orange and Putnam Counties, more and more people began to think of these as part of Downstate.  

 

Terms like "Western New York" or "Central New York" or the "Finger Lakes" or the "Southern Tier" or "the Adirondaks" were traditional terms that the local inhabitants, media, businesses, government officials, etc used to describe their local areas of New York, primarily in "Upstate".   Because these weren't official, different local people/organizations defined themselves differently, frequently overlapping some other areas.  Even using "Upstate" to refer to a specific area north of the NYC metro is simply a local convention.  None of these self-assigned descriptions are "written in stone".

 

At some point, New York State officially defined Upstate and Downstate for administrative purposes.  The Department of Economic Develop later (late 1970s or early 1980s) divided New York State into smaller regions like the Capital District, the North Country, Hudson Valley, Allegany, Leatherstocking, etc.   This was for economic development and promoting tourism.   Those are "official" in the sense that NYS created and continues to use them, but some other NYS agencies like ENCON or Department of Mental Hygiene have their own designations .   They don't necessarily conform to what local people consider their area. 

 

I live in Chautauqua County.  My area is part of "Western New York" and the "Southern Tier" as well as the official "Chautauqua Allegany" region for tourism and economic development.   The Genesee Valley can be considered part of "Central New York" or the "Finger Lakes".  It might also be considered part of "Western New York" by some local people.  Both are part of "Upstate New York", but some people might quibble about that, depending upon their perspective.  

 

It's essentially TOE-may-doe versus to TOE-mah-toe.

 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

It's essentially TOE-may-doe versus to TOE-mah-toe.

 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

We always called it scum jumping.  There was an urban legend about the canal that I clearly remember.  Acoording to this story, farmers would dump dead livestock into the canal.  A kid jumped into the canal and right into a dead cow.  He got stuck and died. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I had a mule and her name was Sal

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

We always called it scum jumping.  There was an urban legend about the canal that I clearly remember.  Acoording to this story, farmers would dump dead livestock into the canal.  A kid jumped into the canal and right into a dead cow.  He got stuck and died. 

Same— we called it “scumming.”

 

I always heard about a dead horse in the canal. there was always some kid saying that he knew a guy who knew a guy who saw a dead horse in the canal.  I didn’t realize it was a local

legend! 

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

We always called it scum jumping.  There was an urban legend about the canal that I clearly remember.  Acoording to this story, farmers would dump dead livestock into the canal.  A kid jumped into the canal and right into a dead cow.  He got stuck and died. 

I don't think it's a legend about the dead cows.  Maybe the kid.  But, here on the Chicago ShitDitch... Back in the day... The stockyards would throw the carcasses of the animals in canal.  How "Bubbly Creek" got it's name here.  The decomposing carcasses would cause the creek, small tributary of canal, to supposedly bubble up. 

 

Take it for what it's worth.  Had to be common at other places. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

^^^

 

 

This isn't rocket science, folks.  "Downstate" and "Upstate" are terms that have traditionally been used to differentiate NYC and its suburbs, including Long Island, from the rest of New York State.   Essentially, any part of New York State north of NYC was considered "Upstate".  As NYC's suburbs expanded northward into Orange and Putnam Counties, more and more people began to think of these as part of Downstate.  

 

Terms like "Western New York" or "Central New York" or the "Finger Lakes" or the "Southern Tier" or "the Adirondaks" were traditional terms that the local inhabitants, media, businesses, government officials, etc used to describe their local areas of New York, primarily in "Upstate".   Because these weren't official, different local people/organizations defined themselves differently, frequently overlapping some other areas.  Even using "Upstate" to refer to a specific area north of the NYC metro is simply a local convention.  None of these self-assigned descriptions are "written in stone".

 

At some point, New York State officially defined Upstate and Downstate for administrative purposes.  The Department of Economic Develop later (late 1970s or early 1980s) divided New York State into smaller regions like the Capital District, the North Country, Hudson Valley, Allegany, Leatherstocking, etc.   This was for economic development and promoting tourism.   Those are "official" in the sense that NYS created and continues to use them, but some other NYS agencies like ENCON or Department of Mental Hygiene have their own designations .   They don't necessarily conform to what local people consider their area. 

 

I live in Chautauqua County.  My area is part of "Western New York" and the "Southern Tier" as well as the official "Chautauqua Allegany" region for tourism and economic development.   The Genesee Valley can be considered part of "Central New York" or the "Finger Lakes".  It might also be considered part of "Western New York" by some local people.  Both are part of "Upstate New York", but some people might quibble about that, depending upon their perspective.  

 

It's essentially TOE-may-doe versus to TOE-mah-toe.

 

 

 

 

Thank you Copernicus of NYS for debunking the QueensburyCentric philosophy Gug is spewing...

 

Yeah... @Gugny 's world view,  perspective is that only he can be in "Upstate" because he's above everyone else in the state.  He travels down to BFLo and NYC.  Such low life's there! 

 

Yes, Virginia, NYS really revolves around a NYCcentric POV when it comes to Upstate and Downstate debate! Not the Adirondacks... 🤭😁

 

 

Cc: @Beerball

Bcc (not so blind carbon copy): @BringBackFergy

[Nextmanup]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:32 PM, Chef Jim said:

 

Or Central.  He must be from NYC.  Anything 5 miles up the Taconic is considered "Upstate".  

"Upstate NY" is a term created by and used by NY city people to describe any part of NY state that is not in the immediate metro NYC area.

 

For some, greater NYC sewer areas such as Chappaqua or even Yonkers are considered too far away from the city and so they are classified as "upstate".  

 

As a native Buffalonian, I avoid using the term for this reason.

 

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

"Upstate NY" is a term created by and used by NY city people to describe any part of NY state that is not in the immediate metro NYC area.

 

For some, greater NYC sewer areas such as Chappaqua or even Yonkers are considered too far away from the city and so they are classified as "upstate".  

 

As a native Buffalonian, I avoid using the term for this reason.

 

 

 

 

Why?  Downstate so much more derogatory.  Look at it as glass half full,  not half empty.

 

Here... Everything outside ChicagoLand is considered Downstate. Hillbilly heaven. 

 

Upstate is a good thing! Who cares if NYS is NYCcentric.  Kinda rightly so. 

[SoTier]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:59 PM, ExiledInIllinois said:

I don't think it's a legend about the dead cows.  Maybe the kid.  But, here on the Chicago ShitDitch... Back in the day... The stockyards would throw the carcasses of the animals in canal.  How "Bubbly Creek" got it's name here.  The decomposing carcasses would cause the creek, small tributary of canal, to supposedly bubble up. 

 

Take it for what it's worth.  Had to be common at other places. 

 

Farmers, villages, factories used to dump their sewage and other waste into any convenient river or creek -- and that continued into the not so distant past, like the 1970s.    I grew up in Gowanda where the former Moench Tanning Company and the Peter Cooper Glue Factory used to dump their waste into the Cattaraugus Creek upstream from the village.   The odor of decomposing animal parts and the chemicals used to process them into leather and glue permeated village, especially in the summer.   The Cuyahoga River in Cleveland famously caught on fire in 1969.   It's likely that the highly polluted Buffalo River could have also caught fire.  That happened all over the country until the Clear Water Act of 1972 started the long fight to clean up waters in the US, which is still going on.

 

Decomposing organic matter, like carcasses and sewage produce methane, which can bubble up through water.

 

 

20 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

"Upstate NY" is a term created by and used by NY city people to describe any part of NY state that is not in the immediate metro NYC area.

 

For some, greater NYC sewer areas such as Chappaqua or even Yonkers are considered too far away from the city and so they are classified as "upstate".  

 

As a native Buffalonian, I avoid using the term for this reason.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that millions of Downstate residents are crying in their beers over your protest.

 

15 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why?  Downstate so much more derogatory.  Look at it as glass half full,  not half empty.

 

Here... Everything outside ChicagoLand is considered Downstate. Hillbilly heaven. 

 

Upstate is a good thing! Who cares if NYS is NYCcentric.  Kinda rightly so. 

 

Without the New York City metro, the rest of the state would be on a par with Mississippi, New Mexico, and West Virginia in most metrics.   New York isn't alone in this situation.  States from Massachusetts to Colorado to Washington to Arizona would all be backwaters if not for their dominant major metros.  Why would anybody ever go to Nevada if not for Las Vegas?

[RevWarRifleman]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:52 PM, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

We always called it scum jumping.  There was an urban legend about the canal that I clearly remember.  According to this story, farmers would dump dead livestock into the canal.  A kid jumped into the canal and right into a dead cow.  He got stuck and died. 

Ahhhh! As a boy growing up in a "canal town" we heard about these "dead cows" floating in the Erie Canal. No one ever saw one but there was at times

plenty of talk about them. I chalked it up as a bunch of bull (pun intended). The back yard  of the house I grew up in went right up to the canal. There was

lots of "other stuff"  floating down the Canal, but never anything even remotely close to a cow. 

[Turk71]

We would dive out of the Cargill grain elevator's ~60 ft window into Lake Erie at the foot of Tifft street. The water was pretty disgusting there. A friend and I each did a 1 1/2 off the high tower at Sherkston quarry in Canada, also around 60 ft I think. In the spring after the blizzard of 77 we rode giant icebergs down Caz Creek when the ice started to flow. Insanely stupid and dangerous. I'm amazed I survived my crazy South Buffalo childhood.

[T&C]

14 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

We would dive out of the Cargill grain elevator's ~60 ft window into Lake Erie at the foot of Tifft street. The water was pretty disgusting there. A friend and I each did a 1 1/2 off the high tower at Sherkston quarry in Canada, also around 60 ft I think. In the spring after the blizzard of 77 we rode giant icebergs down Caz Creek when the ice started to flow. Insanely stupid and dangerous. I'm amazed I survived my crazy South Buffalo childhood.

That is awesome... the crap we did and survived. Bet you weren't wearing a bicycle helmet either.

[SoTier]

22 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

This is complete bull####, the rest of NYS would not be on a par with West Virginia, Mississippi, or New Mexico, you're making ***** up. 

 

Deny it all you want, but Upstate New York would be an economic basket case without New York City and its environs.  New York City and its suburbs have about 64% of the State's population.  New York City area residents and out-of-state residents who work in New York City produce about 82% of the state's income tax revenue.   New York State contains the headquarters of 54 Fortune 500 companies, and 42 of those are headquartered in New York City.  All but 2 of the other 12 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in New York State -- Eastman Kodak and Corning -- are headquartered in the New York City suburbs. 

[Turk71]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Deny it all you want, but Upstate New York would be an economic basket case without New York City and its environs.  New York City and its suburbs have about 64% of the State's population.  New York City area residents and out-of-state residents who work in New York City produce about 82% of the state's income tax revenue.   New York State contains the headquarters of 54 Fortune 500 companies, and 42 of those are headquartered in New York City.  All but 2 of the other 12 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in New York State -- Eastman Kodak and Corning -- are headquartered in the New York City suburbs. 

I don't underestimate the impact NYC has on the state's economy, I just think saying the rest of the state is on par with WV and NM is a pretty big exaggeration. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

region 5 wnys, native. jumping the cliffs into lake erie was good times, way back in the day.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, T&C said:

That is awesome... the crap we did and survived. Bet you weren't wearing a bicycle helmet either.

 

The most stupid things you did in your youth would be quite a thread! Nobody would admit to the best material, I’m afraid. How we made it this far is mystifying. 

[Just Jack]

5 hours ago, T&C said:

That is awesome... the crap we did and survived. Bet you weren't wearing a bicycle helmet either.

 

My small town would have tube races down the river during the field days every summer, until insurance became too expensive after someone, that was not on one of the teams, died.  

 

 

[RevWarRifleman]

On 3/12/2022 at 2:12 PM, Turk71 said:

We would dive out of the Cargill grain elevator's ~60 ft window into Lake Erie at the foot of Tifft street. The water was pretty disgusting there. A friend and I each did a 1 1/2 off the high tower at Sherkston quarry in Canada, also around 60 ft I think. In the spring after the blizzard of 77 we rode giant icebergs down Caz Creek when the ice started to flow. Insanely stupid and dangerous. I'm amazed I survived my crazy South Buffalo childhood.

Turk, you & your buddies would have fit right into my neighborhood. Got to give you big time credit for diving from 60 ft! Way to go!! And riding ice bergs down

a creek must have been wild too. I remember the winter of '77. I was in my last year at Oswego State. There was LOTS of snow during that winer (76/77).

    Water Moccasins were around where we swam in the canal. Saw a huge one one day. They liked to sun themselves on the bank when no one was around.

One day when me & a couple of buddies were approaching our swimming spot along the bank, there was one hiding in the weeds. We couldn't see anything

because the weeds along the bank was too high. He heard us coming & literally sprung up in the air and out about 8 feet into the water. That thing was

easily 4 foot long. 

     There was a pond adjacent to the canal in our neighborhood.  The water moccasins would sun themselves on the water by just laying there on the surface . We would quietly get a bunch of stones from the road nearby & creep up and pelt the you what out of them. We were good shots too! May sound cruel, but as

boys, we didn't want snakes in our swimming hole.

19 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

My small town would have tube races down the river during the field days every summer, until insurance became too expensive after someone, that was not on one of the teams, died.  

 

 

Thanks for the video, JJ. enjoyed it.

[RevWarRifleman]

On 3/12/2022 at 2:28 PM, T&C said:

That is awesome... the crap we did and survived. Bet you weren't wearing a bicycle helmet either.

You got that right TC. We're lucky we survived.