Matt Araiza and the Draft

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Good Lord....just watch the Steeler and final Jets game. Haack is terrible. I could care less if he magically spins the ball perfectly for Bass. We lost home field advantage by 1 game. His net was dead last at 37.6, so excuse me if I'm willing to call it a day on Haack and spend a 5th or 6th pick on a better punter. Anyone can be trained to hold kicks. If I can give our defense an extra 5-7 yards of field position I will.

 

First off I'm fine with drafting a punter in the 5th or 6th.  But don't think punting is nearly as important as holding, not with this offense.  You state anyone can be trained to hold.  Well the reality is there will be one guy only holding, the punter so he's the one who will need to be trained.  Not saying a rookie can't be good at it, but to me that's more important than a couple more yards. 

 

The difference between Haack and the top punter on net yards is around 7 yards, but comparing to the top in the league is unrealistic.  Compare to the league average is better, then the difference drops to 3 yards

 

 

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's not going to happen.  See above.

 

 

Bojo + Bass:  missed 3 of their first 9 FG.  After week 6, they went 22/25, getting Bass to a Bills record breaking season--as a rookie.

 

Seemed like he was worse last year in Green Bay.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[MrEpsYtown]

Just to add to this discussion, and I have mentioned it in other places. Haack holds the way he does because he was a wide receiver in high school who happened to be really good at punting. But he was like an all state position player or something. So he can catch a football. He isn’t just a soccer kid. 
 

Matt Araiza was a defensive back in high school who was really good at kicking and punting. So one would assume he can catch a football, worked on jugs machines etc before. He isn’t a just a soccer kid. So in my mind, I assume he will be a fine holder. I like punters who were football players growing up. They have to hold, tackle, run, sometimes throw the ball.  Not jacked up soccer kids who used their legs their whole lives and never caught a football. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think they value points above all. And I think that is why Haack is still here. Field goals and extra points have to be close to automatic. With Bojo they weren’t and he almost single handedly ruined the career of Mason Crosby. 
 

But I agree, accuracy over power. Now if they can find accuracy, power, and holding, they are in business. 

 

When Crosby attempts over 30 FG a year, his FGM % drops from 86.7% to 77.9%.  He attempted 34 last season.  He's 26th among active kickers with a career FG% of 81.1%.  He's had only 3 seasons out of 15 in the top 10 for FG%. 

 

It wasn't Bojo...

13 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

First off I'm fine with drafting a punter in the 5th or 6th.  But don't think punting is nearly as important as holding, not with this offense.  You state anyone can be trained to hold.  Well the reality is there will be one guy only holding, the punter so he's the one who will need to be trained.  Not saying a rookie can't be good at it, but to me that's more important than a couple more yards. 

 

The difference between Haack and the top punter on net yards is around 7 yards, but comparing to the top in the league is unrealistic.  Compare to the league average is better, then the difference drops to 3 yards

 

 

 

Seemed like he was worse last year in Green Bay.

 

see above

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Agree need to draft a punter. 5th round is where to do it. Late 4th round only if you move your 5th round pick up. 

Barring a trade down the Bills need all four of their 1-4 round picks on position players - CB, OT, NT, WR assuming they don't trade Edmunds.

[Logic]

I have never seen such an absurd love affair for a friggin punter.

 

As others have pointed out, he’s not even the best punter coming out in the draft! He has the strongest leg, but does not actually, ya know, PUNT as effectively as others.

 

I don’t know if it’s residual Brian Moorman fetishism or what, but Bills fans should get past the punter obsession, and past the idea of overspending on Araiza. If Beane drafts a punter in round four, I’ll eat my hat.

 

Jordan Stout, from Pegula’s alma mater, and who was a better college punter than Araiza, has a much better chance of being a Bill…likely sometime between round 6 and UDFA. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Logic

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:37 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We basically lost the Steeler game because of Haack. And in week 17 Haack had punts of 28, 22 & 7, while the Jets punter averaged 50 yards. This Araiza kid is supposed to be pretty amazing. I realize you can use the argument that our offense is so good, do we really need a great punter?  A 4th might be a little rich but if he's there in the early 5th, I'd grab him.  We're moving on from Haack and you can train Araiza to hold Bass's kicks.  If Bass got hurt, Araiza can also kick fgs. 

Haack probably had one of the worst single games for a punter in nfl history, he often hurts the bills more than helps and can't be an option to return. That being said the value we can get at other positions in the 4th is too valuable to this teams future to use on a punter. We can find future starters on the iol in the 4th and that value is much higher than a punter. I wouldn't mind araiza even though he's a complete question mark at holding, but I can't swallow anything earlier than a 5th for a punter.

[Motor26]

Araiza kicked over 31% of his punts for touchbacks last year in college. Give me a guy like Stout or the Georgia punter who can drop it inside the 20 with superior hang time over a guy who just kicks it as hard as he can each time. 

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

I have never seen such an absurd love affair for a friggin punter.

 

As others have pointed out, he’s not even the best punter coming out in the draft! He has the strongest leg, but does not actually, ya know, PUNT as effectively as others.

 

I don’t know if it’s residual Brian Moorman fetishism or what, but Bills fans should get past the punter obsession, and past the idea of overspending on Araiza. If Beane drafts a punter in round four, I’ll eat my hat.

 

Jordan Stout, from Pegula’s alma mater, and who was a better college punter than Araiza, has a much better chance of being a Bill…likely sometime between round 6 and UDFA. 

He's the punter everyone has heard of, so every fan of teams that need a punter mock him to their teams in like the 5th.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Haack probably had one of the worst single games for a punter in nfl history, he often hurts the bills more than helps and can't be an option to return. That being said the value we can get at other positions in the 4th is too valuable to this teams future to use on a punter. We can find future starters on the iol in the 4th and that value is much higher than a punter. I wouldn't mind araiza even though he's a complete question mark at holding, but I can't swallow anything earlier than a 5th for a punter.

Yes, but the crowd reaction when Haack FINNALLY ended his 3 kick shank streak was one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. 

1 hour ago, Motor26 said:

Araiza kicked over 31% of his punts for touchbacks last year in college. Give me a guy like Stout or the Georgia punter who can drop it inside the 20 with superior hang time over a guy who just kicks it as hard as he can each time. 

I agree with this, and going by comments McD has made in the past about wanting a guy who can consistently hit it 40 over a guy who can occasionally hit it 80, it wouldn’t shock me. 

[Paul Costa]

He’s the PUNT GOD 😱😱😱. Need to draft him in the Second Round . Hurry 😂

[Buffalo716]

8 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Just to add to this discussion, and I have mentioned it in other places. Haack holds the way he does because he was a wide receiver in high school who happened to be really good at punting. But he was like an all state position player or something. So he can catch a football. He isn’t just a soccer kid. 
 

Matt Araiza was a defensive back in high school who was really good at kicking and punting. So one would assume he can catch a football, worked on jugs machines etc before. He isn’t a just a soccer kid. So in my mind, I assume he will be a fine holder. I like punters who were football players growing up. They have to hold, tackle, run, sometimes throw the ball.  Not jacked up soccer kids who used their legs their whole lives and never caught a football. 

Most professional punters don't struggle catching the snap 

 

They catch snaps from The Long snapper all day... What some do struggle at is getting the ball on the spot to kicker says and getting the laces out

[GunnerBill]

I think we need a new punter. Haack sucks. But I wouldn't spend more than a 7th round pick on one. 

[MrEpsYtown]

13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Most professional punters don't struggle catching the snap 

 

They catch snaps from The Long snapper all day... What some do struggle at is getting the ball on the spot to kicker says and getting the laces out

 

Yeah I agree. Some are better than most, like Haack. But if a guy can't do that job consistently well, he should be out. 

[Jay_Fixit]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think we need a new punter. Haack sucks. But I wouldn't spend more than a 7th round pick on one. 

Because it’s a punter.

[Saxum]

Bills need to make whatever punter that draft is willing to work during off-season on holding and other parts of his craft for the Bills have no one with experience with kicking which surprises me considering the Pegulas have been very generous on staff for coaching staff and front office.

 

The best punter would be a player who was an athlete who choose to kick to get a scholarship to go to college.

Such players can usually handle secondary duties like handling poorly snapped balls, being last man tackling on returns and making something out of nothing when OL does not hold up on kicks.

 

[CapeBreton]

 

I was hoping the Bills would draft Stout in round 6, hopefully he makes it there.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, CapeBreton said:

 

I was hoping the Bills would draft Stout in round 6, hopefully he makes it there.

 

I just hope they come away with one of them somewhere in this draft. 

[CapeBreton]

4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I just hope they come away with one of them somewhere in this draft. 

 

 

If not Araiza or Stout, there are other worthy punters apparently. Would be nice to get one with holding experience. I believe Araiza/Stout were both punters/kickers.

[Paul Costa]

I personally want Jordan Stout 

[MJS]

4th round or later. 3rd is just too high for me, even the end of the 3rd. 4th is very high, but I could be convinced it's the right move.

 

We have our kicker. If we can get our punter for the next 15-20 years, that would be a big benefit to the team.

 

Then again, if everyone is focused on this one prospect, maybe that means other good prospects have been overlooked and they can draft one late or sign a good punter as an undrafted rookie free agent.

Edited April 28, 2022 by MJS