Where's the salary cap for the Bills?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Good article in TBN  by Mark Gaughn.

 

Tantalizingly, before Joe Schoen was hired by the Giants, he said he was "working on the salary cap" for the Bills and "they're going to have some money".  This was sweet news to us fans because Spotrac has us at -$2.2M.

 

Gaughn correctly identifies a Stefon Diggs extension as the #1 way the Bills could save some $$:

Quote

• Stefon Diggs ($17.9 million). Diggs has two years left on his contract, signed with the Vikings in 2018, which averages $14.4 million a year. The wideout salary rankings get a little complicated because Arizona’s DeAndre Hopkins ($27 million) signed just a two-year extension. He’s No. 1 on the list. No. 2 Julio Jones ($22 million) of Tennessee is playing on a restructured three-year deal. The precise average for a Diggs extension would be less important than the guaranteed money. Jones got $66 million guaranteed when he signed with Atlanta. The bottom line for 2022 is Diggs’ base salary is $12.5 million. By converting most of it to bonus and stretching it out over four years (via a three-year extension), the Bills could save a lot. Giving him a four-year extension would drop his 2022 cap further. Savings: $7.55 million.

 

Gaughn points out other cap savings targets including Beasley, Klein, Feliciano, and (after June 1) Lotulelei.

 

However, he omits the "Elephant in the Room": Edmunds is due $12.7M guaranteed on his 5th year option.  Extending him could lower that cap hit to half or less.

 

I think Gaughn is mistaken on this point:

Quote

NFL rules allow a team to spread out a released player’s cap hit over two years if they have more than one year left on their contract and they’re released on June 1 or later. However, every team can designate two players as soon as the new league year begins in March as “June 1” cuts. That allows the team to get the extra cap relief early, and it allows the veteran player to hit the free agent market at the start of the league year, when teams still have more money to spend.

 

As Jason Fitzgerald of OvertheCap explains:

Quote

I think where many people get confused, though, is when they hear that “player x” could be designated a June 1 cut and immediately jump to conclusions that it means a spending spree in March. The league allows each team to designate up to two players per year as a June 1 cut for cap purposes prior to June 1. It’s the one concession that was given to the players as it allows a player to be cut in March and have time to explore free agency but have his cap hit spread out over two seasons, thus creating more cap space in the current year.   The issue though is the mechanism by which this works.

 

When you designate someone as a June 1 cut the player and his current contract remain on the books until June 1. Going back to the Breaston example has he been designated a June 1 cut his cap charge today would not be $1 million with $2 million on the books in 2014. His cap charge would be $5 million dollars, the same cap charge as if they never cut him at all. When June 1st hits his cap then moves down to $1 million and the other $2 million accelerate into the 2014 season. By that point in time free agency is finished and the extra cap room does not do the team much good. They would have been in a far better cap position during the important time of free agency by releasing Breaston outright as the Chiefs did.

 

So no, this does NOT allow the team to get the extra cap relief early.

 

Since that's a 2013 article I went looking for something more recent which gives the same information:

Quote

Because the cap charge for the current league year isn’t reduced until June, designating a player as a post-June 1 cut hasn’t been hugely advantageous for teams historically. Typically, by June, just about every notable free agent is off the board. However, this year is a bit of a different story – Jadeveon Clowney, Logan Ryan, Larry Warford, and other notable vets are still on the board.

 

Free agent opportunities aside, releasing a player in the spring and designating him a post-June 1 cut can be mutually beneficial for a player and his team. It allows the player to hit the market when potential suitors still have cap room and are still looking to add free agents, and it allows the club to spread out the player’s cap charge without having to actually wait until June 1 to release him — waiting until that point could mean paying roster or workout bonuses in the interim. Additionally, even if the team doesn’t need that June cap space for free agency, it can come in handy for signing draft picks.

 

Again, confirmation that designating a March cut "post June 1" does NOT give the team extra cap relief during March FA.  It does allow them to avoid paying roster bonuses, but the rest of the salary cap remains on the books until...after June 1.

[T master]

Okay when it comes to football & the inner workings of things like the cap i'm definitely not the sharpest nail in the box & i'm having a hard time understanding something .

 

Given that the Bills won't have players that their contracts are ending like Hughes, Addison, Wallace, & so on that money is no longer there so how can they be over the cap with just the amount of players that are left under contract ?

 

Is it that the increase of those players that are still under contract have went up that much to put them over even with all the other contracts not being accounted for that are now gone sorry for my confusion but if i'm thinking correctly that is about the only way that the Bills can be over correct ? 

 

 

[17islongenough]

1 minute ago, T master said:

Okay when it comes to football & the inner workings of things like the cap i'm definitely not the sharpest nail in the box & i'm having a hard time understanding something .

 

Given that the Bills won't have players that their contracts are ending like Hughes, Addison, Wallace, & so on that money is no longer there so how can they be over the cap with just the amount of players that are left under contract ?

 

Is it that the increase of those players that are still under contract have went up that much to put them over even with all the other contracts not being accounted for that are now gone sorry for my confusion but if i'm thinking correctly that is about the only way that the Bills can be over correct ? 

 

 

Contacts never stay the same year to year. One example is Edmunds his cap hit goes up by 10 million.   That is just one example. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Seems like the Bills could gain $30m in cap space relatively pain free.  

That’s before even dealing with Edmunds $12.7m cap hit and Darryl Williams or Morse.  

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, T master said:

Okay when it comes to football & the inner workings of things like the cap i'm definitely not the sharpest nail in the box & i'm having a hard time understanding something .

 

Given that the Bills won't have players that their contracts are ending like Hughes, Addison, Wallace, & so on that money is no longer there so how can they be over the cap with just the amount of players that are left under contract ?

 

Is it that the increase of those players that are still under contract have went up that much to put them over even with all the other contracts not being accounted for that are now gone sorry for my confusion but if i'm thinking correctly that is about the only way that the Bills can be over correct ? 

 

 

Yes, that is correct.  Existing players have cap hits that exceed those of players that will no longer be here.  I found $30M in increases & dead cap pretty quickly when I was asked this before.*  There is some dead cap from players who had voidable years.  Many teams utilized that technique to help defer cap hits in 2021 when we saw the cap decrease.
 

*Some cap increases/dead money

- Diggs +$11.5M, which is largely due to him restructuring last season to give the Bills more cap space.

- White +$9.6M

- Edmunds +$8.7M

- Allen +$6.3M

- Sanders and Addison dead cap $3.4M total

 

That is $39.5M in cap increases and dead cap from voidable years right there. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by BarleyNY

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Seems like the Bills could gain $30m in cap space relatively pain free.  

That’s before even dealing with Edmunds $12.7m cap hit and Darryl Williams or Morse.  

I think they can create that kind of space, but there will be some pain and/or it’ll include some you mention.  My rough savings estimates of possible moves:
- Diggs extension $7M est 

- White restructure $7M est

- Beasley release $6.1M

- Klein release $5.1M

- Ford release $1.5M

 

Beasley and Klein are probably necessary, but aren’t painless.  Something has to give with the trio of Feliciano, Morse and Williams too.  That could go a lot of different ways though.  I just don’t see that IOL staying fully intact at their current cap hits.

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, T master said:

Okay when it comes to football & the inner workings of things like the cap i'm definitely not the sharpest nail in the box & i'm having a hard time understanding something .

 

Given that the Bills won't have players that their contracts are ending like Hughes, Addison, Wallace, & so on that money is no longer there so how can they be over the cap with just the amount of players that are left under contract ?

 

Is it that the increase of those players that are still under contract have went up that much to put them over even with all the other contracts not being accounted for that are now gone sorry for my confusion but if i'm thinking correctly that is about the only way that the Bills can be over correct ? 

 

 

End of year escalators. Not likely to be earned incentives were earned. They get kicked to the next year’s cap. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Good article in TBN  by Mark Gaughn.

 

Tantalizingly, before Joe Schoen was hired by the Giants, he said he was "working on the salary cap" for the Bills and "they're going to have some money".  This was sweet news to us fans because Spotrac has us at -$2.2M.

 

Gaughn correctly identifies a Stefon Diggs extension as the #1 way the Bills could save some $$:

 

Gaughn points out other cap savings targets including Beasley, Klein, Feliciano, and (after June 1) Lotulelei.

 

However, he omits the "Elephant in the Room": Edmunds is due $12.7M guaranteed on his 5th year option.  Extending him could lower that cap hit to half or less.

 

I think Gaughn is mistaken on this point:

 

As Jason Fitzgerald of OvertheCap explains:

 

So no, this does NOT allow the team to get the extra cap relief early.

 

Since that's a 2013 article I went looking for something more recent which gives the same information:

 

Again, confirmation that designating a March cut "post June 1" does NOT give the team extra cap relief during March FA.  It does allow them to avoid paying roster bonuses, but the rest of the salary cap remains on the books until...after June 1.

Cutting Matt Haack will be another. His salary is fully guaranteed if he’s on the roster 3/18. He will be released with Klein imo. I think Feliciano will stick until after TC just due to injury. Whether he’s cut now or September the cap savings is the same and he might have some trade value due to his position. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Simon Says]

3 hours ago, T master said:

Okay when it comes to football & the inner workings of things like the cap i'm definitely not the sharpest nail in the box & i'm having a hard time understanding something .

 

Given that the Bills won't have players that their contracts are ending like Hughes, Addison, Wallace, & so on that money is no longer there so how can they be over the cap with just the amount of players that are left under contract ?

 

Is it that the increase of those players that are still under contract have went up that much to put them over even with all the other contracts not being accounted for that are now gone sorry for my confusion but if i'm thinking correctly that is about the only way that the Bills can be over correct ? 

 

 

Even though, as you pointed out, certain players will no longer be on the roster ; don't forget that some remaining players have RAISES kicking in.

You should learn how to reference Spotrac web site to easily see the Bills cap status

[BarleyNY]

46 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Cutting Matt Haack will be another. His salary is fully guaranteed if he’s on the roster 3/18. He will be released with Klein imo. I think Feliciano will stick until after TC just due to injury. Whether he’s cut now or September the cap savings is the same and he might have some trade value due to his position. 

$275K roster bonus due 3/18 for Haack.  $1.2M cap savings if released before then.  Tick tock. 
 

Edited to add:

It’s worth noting that the rule of 51 applies this time of year.  Salary cap is calculated using the top 51 hits.  When players are released the next one on the list rolls up.  So if Haack were to be released his $1.2M would come off the books and would be replaced with (in this case) a player making $700k.  Net savings is only $500k.  

Edited March 1, 2022 by BarleyNY

[BrooklynBills]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Good article in TBN  by Mark Gaughn.

 

Tantalizingly, before Joe Schoen was hired by the Giants, he said he was "working on the salary cap" for the Bills and "they're going to have some money".  This was sweet news to us fans because Spotrac has us at -$2.2M.

 

Gaughn correctly identifies a Stefon Diggs extension as the #1 way the Bills could save some $$:

 

Gaughn points out other cap savings targets including Beasley, Klein, Feliciano, and (after June 1) Lotulelei.

 

However, he omits the "Elephant in the Room": Edmunds is due $12.7M guaranteed on his 5th year option.  Extending him could lower that cap hit to half or less.

 

I think Gaughn is mistaken on this point:

 

As Jason Fitzgerald of OvertheCap explains:

 

So no, this does NOT allow the team to get the extra cap relief early.

 

Since that's a 2013 article I went looking for something more recent which gives the same information:

 

Again, confirmation that designating a March cut "post June 1" does NOT give the team extra cap relief during March FA.  It does allow them to avoid paying roster bonuses, but the rest of the salary cap remains on the books until...after June 1.

It does somewhat because you can sign your draft picks after June 1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, BrooklynBills said:

It does somewhat because you can sign your draft picks after June 1

 

Yes, a post-June1 cut does help the team sign draft picks

It also helps the team absorb a cap hit from a vet who might be cut after the draft or after camp

 

It just does not help the team's cap during March/April FA

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Cutting Matt Haack will be another. His salary is fully guaranteed if he’s on the roster 3/18. He will be released with Klein imo. I think Feliciano will stick until after TC just due to injury. Whether he’s cut now or September the cap savings is the same and he might have some trade value due to his position. 

 

Yeah, Vaughn mentions him in that article as "nil savings"

I'm not sure it's correct Haack's salary fully guarantees, though.  Spotrac and Overthecap seem to disagree

https://overthecap.com/player/matt-haack/6094/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/matt-haack-22270/

 

I think Haack is gone, based on what Beane said.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/extension-for-stefon-diggs-tops-ways-bills-can-save-loads-of-salary-cap-space/article_ecfe947a-94eb-11ec-be32-b7778e4f892c.html

Quote

• Matt Haack ($1.9 million). Punters are inexpensive. This would be a move based mostly on an evaluation of his subpar season. He would cost $700,000 and save $1.2 million if cut before June 1. He’d save $1.5 million and cost $350,000 if cut after June 1. The net savings would be almost nil because it would cost about the same amount to sign his replacement. Savings: Effectively, none.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

$275K roster bonus due 3/18 for Haack.  $1.2M cap savings if released before then.  Tick tock. 
 

Edited to add:

It’s worth noting that the rule of 51 applies this time of year.  Salary cap is calculated using the top 51 hits.  When players are released the next one on the list rolls up.  So if Haack were to be released his $1.2M would come off the books and would be replaced with (in this case) a player making $700k.  Net savings is only $500k.  

 

 

The same goes for modest additions though.............so let's say they sign a RB for $1.5M in free agency..........provided they have 51 players under contract at the time the cap hit would only be $1.5M minus salary #51........which if it were $700K in your example, would mean that the signing would only increase the Bills cap figure by $800K not $1.5M.

 

[YoloinOhio]

39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yeah, Vaughn mentions him in that article as "nil savings"

I'm not sure it's correct Haack's salary fully guarantees, though.  Spotrac and Overthecap seem to disagree

https://overthecap.com/player/matt-haack/6094/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/matt-haack-22270/

 

I think Haack is gone, based on what Beane said.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/extension-for-stefon-diggs-tops-ways-bills-can-save-loads-of-salary-cap-space/article_ecfe947a-94eb-11ec-be32-b7778e4f892c.html

 

Haack is terrible and I know he’s a good holder but it can’t be that hard to find a guy who can do both? Draft one. It’s worth the 4th or 5th rounder or whatever to get one of the better punters when you look at the impact it would have on the roster, vs a 4th or 5th at another position. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Haack is terrible and I know he’s a good holder but it can’t be that hard to find a guy who can do both? Draft one. It’s worth the 4th or 5th rounder or whatever to get one of the better punters when you look at the impact it would have on the roster, vs a 4th or 5th at another position. 

 

I mean, in his end-of-season presser Beane pretty much said Haack was inconsistent and they'd be looking elsewhere

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I think they can create that kind of space, but there will be some pain and/or it’ll include some you mention.  My rough savings estimates of possible moves:
- Diggs extension $7M est 

- White restructure $7M est

- Beasley release $6.1M

- Klein release $5.1M

- Ford release $1.5M

 

Beasley and Klein are probably necessary, but aren’t painless.  Something has to give with the trio of Feliciano, Morse and Williams too.  That could go a lot of different ways though.  I just don’t see that IOL staying fully intact at their current cap hits.

Add cuts of

 

mongo

matekavitch

 

That would be what another 6 million

[Thurman#1]

13 hours ago, T master said:

Okay when it comes to football & the inner workings of things like the cap i'm definitely not the sharpest nail in the box & i'm having a hard time understanding something .

 

Given that the Bills won't have players that their contracts are ending like Hughes, Addison, Wallace, & so on that money is no longer there so how can they be over the cap with just the amount of players that are left under contract ?

 

Is it that the increase of those players that are still under contract have went up that much to put them over even with all the other contracts not being accounted for that are now gone sorry for my confusion but if i'm thinking correctly that is about the only way that the Bills can be over correct ? 

 

 

 

 

 Some other guys have their salary cap hits go up some years. Josh Allen cost us $10.2M last year. He'll cost us $16.3M this year and $39.3M the year after. There's a ton of that kind of thing. Diggs' cap hit goes up from $6.3 to $17.9M this year. Which is why they may well re-do his contract giving him some kind of extension.

 

As recommended above, you should really learn to use either the spotrac website or the overthgcap website. You can just google Buffalo Bills Spotrac.

 

And you're golden. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

You can see each player's contract values through it's whole existence, the team's cap for several years back and forward, and you can even play GM using the "Manage Roster" function, cutting guys and seeing how the cap space changes. There's a learning curve. You have to figure out how signing bonuses are different from roster and option bonuses (each figure is given separately), you have to lear dead cap, etc.

 

Took me a short time to learn most of it. But then realized I'd been wrong about one thing and it took me years to realize I was wrong, with much ridicule and help from folks on here. And I deserved the ridicule. That took like two years.

 

But if you're going to be a serious fan, these days you've got to work on slowly picking it up. I think so anyway.

 

Also worth understanding that when people on this thread talk about saving $20 or $30M, that will partially just be used to pay for re-signing guys whose contracts ran out at the end of the year but will be re-signed, such as Horrible Harry, McKenzie, a backup QB to replace Trubisky, Levi Wallace, etc. Or guys to replace them if they go, but in case they go, there's no way to guess how much the new guys would cost.

 

Cover1 estimates they'll have around $10M left after all adjustments and bringing back all their guys, with the ability to generate around $20M more by pushing money down into later years. But Beane does some of that but doesn't like to do it excessively.

 

Again, take a look at spotrac and overthecap.

 

 

[nucci]

Beane seems to handle the cap well and signs or re-signs who he wants

[T master]

20 hours ago, Georgie said:

Even though, as you pointed out, certain players will no longer be on the roster ; don't forget that some remaining players have RAISES kicking in.

You should learn how to reference Spotrac web site to easily see the Bills cap status

 

I'm only a casual fan i'll let you all spend that time there besides if it wasn't for my lack of knowledge on this subject i wouldn't have any questions to ask or generate conversation here .

 

But thanks for your knowledge & the input  if i get the extra time one day i may go tot Spotrac .