Today's Locked On Bills podcast - listen to it

[DrDawkinstein]

 

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Edmunds is a Bills fan Rorschach. They'll see what they want to see.

 

I believe too many fans expect/want a different style of play and then are down on Edmunds when it doesn't happen. When a player does the same thing for four years and is praised by coaches but criticized by fans, there is clearly something amiss. 

 

I see a very good player because Edmunds does exactly what the coaches ask him to do, which has a huge impact on the entire defensive scheme. If the Bills weren't a Top 3 defense, I'd think, "Whatever he's doing is not making a difference," but the opposite seems to be true. 

 

In the end, I believe the Bills sign him for "Milano money."

 

His coaches ask him to be slow to react and then overreact? His coaches ask him to get caught in the wash and not fight through (or avoid) blocks? His coaches ask him to take horrible angles and overpersue? His coaches ask him to bounce off of RBs without even slowing them down? His coaches ask him to not make any plays in the passing game, but just be out there? His coaches ask him to get burned by the guys he does have to cover in man?

 

Cmon.

 

And the whole "He's part of a top-3 Defense" is the same but opposite argument folks used to make here to not re-sign our best players "Well, it's not like we've won a Super Bowl with Lynch/Greer/Peters/Clements/etc". Not a good reason when it's a team sport. I think we could do better at his position for less money than he'll command.

 

If he'll take Milano Money ($10-11M/year) then sure, bring him back for a few years I guess. But when his 5th year option is already $12.5M, I doubt he's taking anything less long term.

[Max Fischer]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

His coaches ask him to be slow to react and then overreact? His coaches ask him to get caught in the wash and not fight through (or avoid) blocks? His coaches ask him to take horrible angles and overpersue? His coaches ask him to bounce off of RBs without even slowing them down? His coaches ask him to not make any plays in the passing game, but just be out there? His coaches ask him to get burned by the guys he does have to cover in man?

 

Cmon.

 

And the whole "He's part of a top-3 Defense" is the same but opposite argument folks used to make here to not re-sign our best players "Well, it's not like we've won a Super Bowl with Lynch/Greer/Peters/Clements/etc". Not a good reason when it's a team sport. I think we could do better at his position for less money than he'll command.

 

If he'll take Milano Money ($10-11M/year) then sure, bring him back for a few years I guess. But when his 5th year option is already $12.5M, I doubt he's taking anything less long term.

 

You did an excellent job of setting up and knocking down all those straw men.  Well done, you should be a sports commentator. 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Klein for this year. He did fine when he stepped in for Edmunds for a couple games last year, and even immediately made some plays in his limited time, which Edmunds rarely does. Plus, Klein is set to make half of what we'll have to pay Edmunds.

 

Then draft a replacement.

 

Klein?  Are you serious?  

 

Klein won't even be on the team. 

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

His coaches ask him to be slow to react and then overreact? His coaches ask him to get caught in the wash and not fight through (or avoid) blocks? His coaches ask him to take horrible angles and overpersue? His coaches ask him to bounce off of RBs without even slowing them down? His coaches ask him to not make any plays in the passing game, but just be out there? His coaches ask him to get burned by the guys he does have to cover in man?

 

Cmon.

 

And the whole "He's part of a top-3 Defense" is the same but opposite argument folks used to make here to not re-sign our best players "Well, it's not like we've won a Super Bowl with Lynch/Greer/Peters/Clements/etc". Not a good reason when it's a team sport. I think we could do better at his position for less money than he'll command.

 

If he'll take Milano Money ($10-11M/year) then sure, bring him back for a few years I guess. But when his 5th year option is already $12.5M, I doubt he's taking anything less long term.

This is the main problem.  The $12.7m option kills any chance of getting him for Milano money.  And it’s $12.7m instead of $9m because he made the Pro Bowl.  Pro Bowl alternate Josh Allen will tell you how much making the Pro Bowl means.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Ill listen, I always do.  However, I know what to expect from Nolan.  He is a big Edmunds guy.  Marino is more level headed.   The truth about Edmunds is he is a average middle linebacker that really knows the system.   

 

So the Bills have a hard choice, pay a guy a lot of money who knows your system very well, is a team leader, who has average to above average play at times but is also a complete liability at others.   The Chiefs targeted him big time in yhis years playoffs.   Personally Id try and trade him for a piece on offense.

 

On Star, the team is better when he plays.   Problem is hes missed the better part of the last two seasons and 18 games of that were either his choice or personal reasons.  Its time to move on.

He's not a liability. The Chiefs did not target Edmunds. Edmunds doesn't play much man, and if he does its a RB in the flat.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[thenorthremembers]

44 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He's not a liability. The Chiefs did not target Edmunds. Edmunds doesn't play much man, and if he does its a RB in the flat.

The Bills play a majority of zone coverage.    Edmunds' zone would have been the short middle of the field, not the flat.   Milano would have covered the flat.   He was also pretty bad in the Chiefs game. 

 

The Chiefs targeted the short middle of the field on 25% of their plays, Mahomes completed 66% of his passes to the short middle of the field, and their wideouts and tight ends averaged 11 yards per catch over the middle.   Not to mention, their running game averaged 8 yards a carry up the middle.    Edmunds, was a liability in that game without question.  To be fair the entire defense outside of maybe Ed Oliver was. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Star- the best ability is availability 

Tremaine- we can do better for less money

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The Bills play a majority of zone coverage.    Edmunds' zone would have been the short middle of the field, not the flat.   Milano would have covered the flat.   He was also pretty bad in the Chiefs game. 

 

The Chiefs targeted the short middle of the field on 25% of their plays, Mahomes completed 66% of his passes to the short middle of the field, and their wideouts and tight ends averaged 11 yards per catch over the middle.   Not to mention, their running game averaged 8 yards a carry up the middle.    Edmunds, was a liability in that game without question.  To be fair the entire defense outside of maybe Ed Oliver was. 

When the Bills go man he'll typically take the RB, which he did vs the Chiefs.

 

Yes he'll cover the middle along with others. There were break downs. There was a big gainer in OT to Hardman I can't figure out. Looks like someone busted coverage. 

 

As for the run, our defense is literally what coach preaches. 1/11. Everyone has to be in their gap on every run play. I'm sure Edmunds was out of his gap at times. I haven't really focused on the run game vs KC. Mahomes scrambled almost everytime we covered well in man. That killed us and the Hardman TD, which was Poyers fault.

 

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, Lagoon Blues said:

For everyone that wants to move on from him who do you go get?

Dean is interesting....but how does that make us better really?

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, Lagoon Blues said:

For everyone that wants to move on from him who do you go get?

 

 

For everyone who thinks it would be hard to replace him.......just a reminder that Preston Brown lead the NFL in tackles playing MLB in this defense in 2017.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For everyone who thinks it would be hard to replace him.......just a reminder that Preston Brown lead the NFL in tackles playing MLB in this defense in 2017.

 

Serious question:  what do you say to those who believe Edmunds' presence in the middle is a significant disruption to the opponents' passing game?

 

I have no agenda here.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, Tanoros said:

we save a little over 1.5 million moving on from Star, I don’t see us doing that this year unless we get a sure fire replacement (that would most likely be the draft). If we cut star, whoever we bring in to replace him most likely costs more than what we save. 

 

 

Cutting him this offseason before his bonuses kicks in saves $4.1M in cap space over the next 2 seasons...........which is all room that they can use to add talent this year with creative accounting.

 

Also saves ownership nearly $4M in real money that they wouldn't have to pay Lotulelei.

 

It's not as simple as only being able to save $1.5M.............it's overall cap space and actual dollars that are both around $4M.

 

[Tanoros]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Cutting him this offseason before his bonuses kicks in saves $4.1M in cap space over the next 2 seasons...........which is all room that they can use to add talent this year with creative accounting.

 

Also saves ownership nearly $4M in real money that they wouldn't have to pay Lotulelei.

 

It's not as simple as only being able to save $1.5M.............it's overall cap space and actual dollars that are both around $4M.

 

Looks like the savings partially depends on when he is released. I’m certainly not a cap expert, I said 1.5 because that’s the number I keep seeing. 
 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/should-bills-release-star-lotulelei-with-two-years-remaining-on-his-contract/article_27ccc034-90ed-11ec-9c78-4f50d4778d43.html

 

if this source is correct, we save 3.5 if cutting him after June 1. 
 

Star situation is interesting to monitor. His contract is too much for us value, but he played pretty good before Covid last year, but not so much after. I wonder how the Bills staff feels about it all?

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Serious question:  what do you say to those who believe Edmunds' presence in the middle is a significant disruption to the opponents' passing game?

 

I have no agenda here.

 

 

 

I'd say that they should watch Logan Wilson defend the middle of the field for Cinci against Mahomes and KC in the AFCCG.

 

Edmunds has around a 110 combined passer rating against the past two years...........he's not some secret force against the pass.

 

[MJS]

So, did they spend all their time debating Edmunds like this thread seems to suggest, or was there something else that they also talked about?

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Star=worst run stuffing DT in the league. Guhhhhhbye. 

Edmunds....quite the pickle there.

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, Tanoros said:

Looks like the savings partially depends on when he is released. I’m certainly not a cap expert, I said 1.5 because that’s the number I keep seeing. 
 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/should-bills-release-star-lotulelei-with-two-years-remaining-on-his-contract/article_27ccc034-90ed-11ec-9c78-4f50d4778d43.html

 

if this source is correct, we save 3.5 if cutting him after June 1. 
 

Star situation is interesting to monitor. His contract is too much for us value, but he played pretty good before Covid last year, but not so much after. I wonder how the Bills staff feels about it all?

 

 

I think my $4.1M number is accurate but regardless,  they can "declare" him a June 1 cut when they release him in March..........which they would want to do to eradicate his roster and workout bonuses.

 

They can't technically use the portion of cap space that is designated "June 1" funds until June 1............but that matters little.

 

They can borrow cap space to make additions in 2021 against next year/future years with a re-structure of a current contract.........say Tre White just for example............and then roll the June 1 savings from Lotulelei into 2022 if they don't need it.   It's just accounting at that point.

 

What isn't accounting is the actual, currently unguaranteed dollars they would have to pay Lotulelei to play in 2021.........which is about $4M...........a lot for a presumed backup DT1T with his recent history.

 

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

So, did they spend all their time debating Edmunds like this thread seems to suggest, or was there something else that they also talked about?

They didn’t debate Edmunds. They talked about the defense and where the needs/issues are both personnel and coaching. They talked about the “chasm” between some Bills fans view of Edmunds and what they believe is the team’s view of him. Neither really is overly high or low on him.

[ProcessTruster]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude, try to keep up.  The Bills picked up Edmunds 5th year option during the available window for that decision - last May

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/03/bills-exercise-josh-allen-tremaine-edmunds-fifth-year-options/

 

Bills already owe Edmunds $12.7M guaranteed salary for 2022

Oops, off by a year there-was more focused what the long term contract extension offer would be.  That’s the moment of truth and the real issue

[TheWeatherMan]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The defense has not looked good when Dodson was playing MLB (pretty sure that was the first Mia game of 2020).  To be fair, he had Klein playing next to him so both starting LB were out.

 

If Edmunds is such a mediocre player, what team is going to give the Bills "good value" for a 1 yr rental of a guy with $12.7M guaranteed salary?

Texans?  Oh wait, we’re not the Dolphins…never mind. 

[Max Fischer]

On 2/28/2022 at 2:50 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Klein for this year. He did fine when he stepped in for Edmunds for a couple games last year, and even immediately made some plays in his limited time, which Edmunds rarely does. Plus, Klein is set to make half of what we'll have to pay Edmunds.

 

Then draft a replacement.

 

You do realize that Edmunds will be on the team in 2022-23? Klein may be the #1 cut candidate.