Nuclear Diplomacy

[harryS]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Whatcha watching and reading? 

 

 

you will probably not even look at these links, but i will supply them anyway.  note that they are unabashedly pro-Russia but the question you should ask is: are they accurate?   we will find out in the coming days and weeks whether the mainstream media is painting the more accurate picture or whether the pro-Russia sites are.

 

https://thesaker.is/

 

https://www.moonofalabama.org/

 

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/

 

 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, harryS said:

 

 

you will probably not even look at these links, but i will supply them anyway.  note that they are unabashedly pro-Russia but the question you should ask is: are they accurate?   we will find out in the coming days and weeks whether the mainstream media is painting the more accurate picture or whether the pro-Russia sites are.

 

https://thesaker.is/

 

https://www.moonofalabama.org/

 

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/

 

 

So you admit this is pro-Russian propaganda. You are right,mi won’t waste my time looking at them 

@SCBills You asked where this pro Russian propaganda was 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

So you admit this is pro-Russian propaganda. 

No he did not. You sure make things up. You and Billy must be drinking the same water because you both seem to suffer from a deep psychosis

[Motorin']

9 minutes ago, harryS said:

 

 

you will probably not even look at these links, but i will supply them anyway.  note that they are unabashedly pro-Russia but the question you should ask is: are they accurate?   we will find out in the coming days and weeks whether the mainstream media is painting the more accurate picture or whether the pro-Russia sites are.

 

https://thesaker.is/

 

https://www.moonofalabama.org/

 

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Russia wants to dismantle the possibility of any pro-western military apparatus in Ukraine, and take control of the massive gas reserves off Ukraine's southern coast. 

 

I've seen this guy on TikTok, he's supposedly an American that lives in Ukraine. He's come to the conclusion that Zelinsky is evil bc he won't surrender and is inspiring his nation to resist... 

 

What he doesn't seem to understand is that the Ukrainians have lived under the Soviet Union, and they would rather die than be ruled by Putin or a Putin puppet. 

[harryS]

18 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You are right,mi won’t waste my time looking at them 

 

haha, I predicted it.  typical lib.  you'd rather drown in mainstream media nonsense and believe that Ukraine is winning this war (lol) than just read the other side and decide for yourself which analysis sounds more reasonable.  the funny thing is this isn't even a left / right issue.  it's simply "where do I get the best war reporting, and do I understand the counterpoints to what I'm rooting for?"  in fact, Fox News is just as bad as CNN on reporting on this war.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, harryS said:

 

haha, I predicted it.  typical lib.  you'd rather drown in mainstream media nonsense and believe that Ukraine is winning this war (lol) than just read the other side and decide for yourself which analysis sounds more reasonable.  the funny thing is this isn't even a left / right issue.  it's simply "where do I get the best war reporting, and do I understand the counterpoints to what I'm rooting for?"  in fact, Fox News is just as bad as CNN on reporting on this war.

How does Russia win? They going to hold Ukraine? Install a puppet? 

[harryS]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

How does Russia win? They going to hold Ukraine? Install a puppet? 

 

I could only guess at the other two questions (and my guess would be either annexation or perhaps creation of a new Russia-friendly republic), but as far as the military facts on the ground, the bulk of Ukraine's forces are encircled in the Donbas, Mariupol, and now Odessa.  Russia is winning and has never been anything other than a 99% favorite to win.  Incidentally, most of the supplies and weapons the West are promising to Ukraine will end up in Russian hands.

[T master]

On 3/1/2022 at 6:46 PM, Tiberius said:

I agree with allowing Putin to save face and for Russia not being punished long term with sanctions, but it must also be remembered that he is not to be trusted. I think a relaxing of many sanctions in return for him leaving Ukraine should be openly put out there. The Nazis used the reparations regime for great propaganda, we shouldn’t create same type of situation. 

 

But, I think Putin is going to face a horrible defeat no matter what. He has beached a whale which might murder a lot of people before it finally sprays blood (like a harpooned whale) but it will be destroyed if it tries to conquer Ukraine. I don’t see how they possibly win. 

 

The world is supplying the Ukrainian defense now. If Putin loses it will because of western assistance and he knows that. 

 

Will he go nuclear after he clearly has nothing nothing more than a ruined hulk of an army? 

 

Of course thats how I see events drifting, but the future is a locked door no one can see behind 

 

 

 

 

To this point there has been no response by the west or any NATO countries to help them out even after repeated pleas for that help Poland is the only ones to respond i believe & that is because they would probably be next in line if & after Russia finishes in the Ukraine .

 

So many conflicts the US has been in were for little or nothing and usually we were the instigator in some respects I believe Putin is crazy but none of the other countries have balls enough to put him in his place which will take a leader like Ukraines president ours is to worried about oil flow from Russia.

 

I don't know what he will do but would not put anything past him & if he does launch a nuke someone needs to step up to the plate & bust him & it won't be China you can bet on that so the only one left would be the US & i don't see this president being that guy .

Edited March 7, 2022 by T master

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Tot his point there has been no response by the west or any NATO countries to help them out even after repeated pleas for that help Poland is the only ones to respond i believe & that is because they would probably be next in line if & after Russia finishes in the Ukraine .

 

So many conflicts the US has been in were for little or nothing and usually we were the instigator in some respects I believe Putin is crazy but none of the other countries have balls enough to put him in his place which will take a leader like Ukraines president ours is to worried about oil flow from Russia.

 

I don't know what he will do but would not put anything past him & if he does launch a nuke someone needs to step up to the plate & bust him & it won't be China you can bet on that so the only one left would be the US & i don't see this president being that guy .

I'd imagine our nuclear options are pretty limited. We won't waste civilians to get Putin, IMO 

[sherpa]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'd imagine our nuclear options are pretty limited. We won't waste civilians to get Putin, IMO 

 

There are no good nuclear options.

Only when faced with the end of the regime.

Israel considered it in the early days of the 1973 Yom Kippur war, but that option quickly changed when events turned in their favor.

I have no doubt they would employ them if Iran got close to ending the state of Israel.

 

[Motorin']

33 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'd imagine our nuclear options are pretty limited. We won't waste civilians to get Putin, IMO 

 

I do think we have to start taking the possibility very seriously that Russia is only after a military buffer zone. 

 

When you look at the Eastern Ukrainian border, it's barely 300 miles to Moscow. A modern hypersonic missile could hit the Russian capital in less than 2 minutes from there, giving NATO a first strike capability that would pose as an existential threat. 

 

The humanitarian thing to do is end this war with the Zellinsky regime intact and a pledge for Ukrainian military neutrality. No NATO missiles in Ukraine should end this God forsaken calamity.

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Motorin'

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

I do think we have to start taking the possibility very seriously that Russia is only after a military buffer zone. 

 

When you look at the Eastern Ukrainian border, it's barely 300 miles to Moscow. A modern hypersonic missile could hit the Russian capital in less than 2 minutes from there, giving NATO a first strike capability that would pose as an existential threat. 

 

The humanitarian thing to do is end this war with the Zellinsky regime intact and a pledge for Ukrainian military neutrality. No NATO missiles in Ukraine should end this God forsaken calamity.

 

 

I would be for this 100% if Russia was only looking for a buffer zone.   I don't think that is all they want.  If so there was no need to invade.  That could have been "easily" spelled out in any pre-invasion discussions. 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I would be for this 100% if Russia was only looking for a buffer zone.   I don't think that is all they want.  If so there was no need to invade.  That could have been "easily" spelled out in any pre-invasion discussions. 

 

The major sticking point is Russia is demanding Crimea permanently to Russia, and Ukraine officially recognize Dontensk & Luhansk as independent Republics. 

 

Would kind of like a demand that Florida belongs to Russia and Maine and Rhode Island are independent. Ukraine won't agree to that. 

 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The major sticking point is Russia is demanding Crimea permanently to Russia, and Ukraine officially recognize Dontensk & Luhansk as independent Republics. 

 

Would kind of like a demand that Florida belongs to Russia and Maine and Rhode Island are independent. Ukraine won't agree to that. 

 

 

They may have to.  

[Motorin']

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

They may have to.  

 

From the sound of it, they don't think the Russians can hold the ground they've gained. They are dug in for a war of attrition with 40 million vs 200k. As sad as it's been, it's going to get a lot sadder before this ends. As of right now, the Ukrainians are holding out for full territorial integrity. 

[T master]

13 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

From the sound of it, they don't think the Russians can hold the ground they've gained. They are dug in for a war of attrition with 40 million vs 200k. As sad as it's been, it's going to get a lot sadder before this ends. As of right now, the Ukrainians are holding out for full territorial integrity. 

 

I don't know how true it is but i heard on the radio today that there are a bunch of American Ex Military that are signing up to go over & fight with those people of Ukraine because our gov't won't support them due to the threat of starting a WW .

 

But the US gov't can't stop those that want to go over and make a stand for what is right i don't know much at all about it or if it was just a radio head talking but i think that is pretty upstanding if in fact those folks are doing that !! 

Edited March 7, 2022 by T master

[Motorin']

12 minutes ago, T master said:

 

I don't know how true it is but i heard on the radio today that there are a bunch of American Ex Military that are signing up to go over & fight with those people of Ukraine because our gov't won't support them due to the threat of starting a WW .

 

But the US gov't can't stop those that want to go over and make a stand for what is right i don't know much at all about it or if it was just a radio head talking but i think that is pretty upstanding if in fact those folks are doing that !! 

 

Ukraine has opened a volunteer portal for anyone to go fight (outside of Russian citizens). I've read that 16,000 people have signed up so far... I've seen footage of young American and British citizens travelingto and gettgin read to cross the border.