Walter Football Mock with the Hot Take on our MLB

[Nextmanup]

The funny thing is that a sizable portion of this forum still thinks Edmunds is a really good football player.  I think this mostly stems from the fact that he was a relatively high draft pick, and he currently plays for the Buffalo Bills.

 

When he's gone, he will be laughed at by the same people.

 

😂

 

🤦‍♂️

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

But couldn't we say the same for Oliver? Oliver I feel has shown dominant play at times, unlike Edmunds, but I feel overall he's been average as well. 

 

We need these defensive draft picks to step up and become more than average, at least one of them. There are a lot of 1st and 2nd round picks in the front 7 that haven't developed into more than average.

Oliver is still a year behind and has done something that Tremaine hasn’t done…. Shown significant improvement.  I agree Ed was average in his first 2 years.  Mostly because he taking on double teams as a 287 DT due to star opting out and Harrison’s injury/recovery.  He was a top 10 pass rushing DT in the league last season imo and only getting better.  
 

fully agree with part 2 of your post other than Ed being very good as opposed to better than average.

[Lost]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think he’s a rather easily replaceable player at a much cheaper contract and doesn’t move the needle for the team whatsoever. 
 

He’s not a huge bust. He’s not a great player. He’s somewhere in between good and average MLB.  The money he will get can absolutely be better served else where such as at a position that does impact wins and losses(WR, CB, pass rusher) 

 

Just because fans aren’t on the same page as the team doesn’t mean the team is right…. This regime has already proven they can be overly loyal to their own players and draft picks and be quite wrong about it. 

Right.  

 

If Edmunds purpose in our defensive scheme is not to make impact plays but solely to prevent big gains in the middle of the field, he hasn't even done that very well this season.   I'd like to find a stat on this somewhere but I remember watching at least two games this season where we have given up season long plays to opposing team players down the middle of the field.   One was the Derrick Henry 76 yd TD run(his longest of season) and I think both Mahomes and Edwards-Helaire had season long runs against the Bills.  I'm sure there are plenty of others.   

 

We could honestly probably throw Tyrel Dodson or Mario Addison out there for majority of snaps and not see much drop-off in play. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Lost

[BarleyNY]

17 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

If Edmunds is as bad at football as TBD makes him out to be, why is anyone talking getting a 2nd or 3rd for him ? ... Sounds like we'd be lucky to get a jelly donut for him.

Edmunds is not tradeable with his current contract.  (One year, $12.7M fully guaranteed.)  The Bills aren’t in any position to move on from him either.  So the question is whether the Bills start preparing for his (possible) departure next offseason.  We will have to wait and see if a backup who is a potential replacement gets drafted this season.  It’s smart business regardless of what the Bills think of Edmunds.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

As for measuring his performance, in Jay Skurski's BN piece on Edmunds yesterday he wrote:

 

"If we define big plays as sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles or recoveries, passes defensed and tackles for loss, Edmunds combined to make just 12 such plays. Seven players on the defense had that many or more."

 

That's pretty damning for a guy who:

• we traded up for and drafted highly
• is considered a freak athlete
• plays a position that generally results in big plays and impressive stats

 

Look at it this way, only 3 of his defensive mates had fewer big plays in 2021.

 

 

Would you mind telling us what these stats for other MLB (who are not, in their scheme, asked to blitz very often) ?

Since you know that MLBs around the league generally result in big plays and impressive stats in these categories, shouldn't be hard.

 

Here's a list of top-10 MLB around the league in 2020 which might help

https://www.fanrankings.com/nfl/articles/top-10-middle-linebackers-in-nfl-2021-rankings

I looked up 2021 stats for Int, PD, FF, SK, and TFL on a couple LB on that list:

Bobby Wagner 11 (add QB hits 14)

Fred Warner 12.5 (add QB hits 15.5)

Devin White 15.5

Lavonte David 13

 

I think these data might imply that around the league

 

Also point out that in 2018, Tre Edmunds stats for these were 23, which would put him up with Eric Kendricks (who had 19 last year), whom PFF grades as the best

 

I asked elsewhere in this thread, of others, I'll ask again: what was different in 2018 that gave Tre Better stats? 

Because I think most people would say he's a better player overall now than he was as a rookie.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think some fans aren’t on the same page as to his role in the defense and why he is important. And that there is indeed a place between “bust” and “elite” that can contribute at a high level on a SB team. He’s not a traditional MLB and he doesn’t play the traditional MLB position in this defense. Warren calling him a “huge bust” simply shows his lack of knowledge of the player and scheme. Not every player drafted in the first round is a “bust” because they aren’t “elite” by age 23. 
 

not sure what or if they will pay Edmunds but it appears the viewpoint the team has is that he is valuable. WRT what he’s asked to do against the run and pass and communication in THIS defense, his value is very high even if *and i know this is difficult to comprehend for some * he doesn’t make (gasp) every play. 

 

I think from various things McDermott has said, they in fact want more "splash plays" or difference-making plays out of Edmunds.  But they clearly do regard him as important or they wouldn't have picked up his fully guaranteed 5th year option.

 

And again there's that question I keep asking: what was different Edmunds rookie year that resulted in him having almost twice the "splash plays" (interceptions, passes defensed, forced fumbles, sacks, tackles for loss) that he did last year?

 

There's a subtext through all these discussions, that McDermott and Beane, despite taking the Bills to a winning record and to playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and having a top-10 defense on points 2 of those 5 years, are actually all kinds of football dumb.  They, unlike the bright lights here on TBD, are unable to perceive or unwilling to admit that Edmunds is a "bust", or are stubbornly playing  Edmunds out of position where he should really be a DE or an OLB, or that they should trade him for whatever draft pick they can get and replace him with a $5-6k/yr (or maybe $9k/yr) free agent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

If Edmunds is as bad at football as TBD makes him out to be, why is anyone talking getting a 2nd or 3rd for him ? ... Sounds like we'd be lucky to get a jelly donut for him.

 

Exactly.  The same people who say he's a huge bust and lacks instincts and will be laughed at if he exhibits the same level of play elsewhere, are saying we should trade him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick or trade him for a "more dominant and developed" MLB.

 

News flash, huge busts who lack instincts don't get traded for high draft picks or good players.  They get traded for jelly donuts and bags of socks.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

A difference maker? Occasionally. I definitely wouldn't call Oliver a difference maker. We've seen him do it, and yes he's trending up. 

 

The second half of 2021 he was consistently a difference maker. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

On 2/25/2022 at 12:53 AM, Richard Noggin said:

https://walterfootball.com/draft2022_1.php

 

This pick and blurb oughta get a rise out of folks. Dontcha think? Discuss. 

 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 5:48 AM, Doc Brown said:

More like 👇

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The second half of 2021 he was consistently a difference maker. 

I didn't notice it consistently. Give me a game?

Edited February 26, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Maine-iac]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think from various things McDermott has said, they in fact want more "splash plays" or difference-making plays out of Edmunds.  But they clearly do regard him as important or they wouldn't have picked up his fully guaranteed 5th year option.

 

And again there's that question I keep asking: what was different Edmunds rookie year that resulted in him having almost twice the "splash plays" (interceptions, passes defensed, forced fumbles, sacks, tackles for loss) that he did last year?

 

There's a subtext through all these discussions, that McDermott and Beane, despite taking the Bills to a winning record and to playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and having a top-10 defense on points 2 of those 5 years, are actually all kinds of football dumb.  They, unlike the bright lights here on TBD, are unable to perceive or unwilling to admit that Edmunds is a "bust", or are stubbornly playing  Edmunds out of position where he should really be a DE or an OLB, or that they should trade him for whatever draft pick they can get and replace him with a $5-6k/yr (or maybe $9k/yr) free agent.

I think in 2018 and 2019 we had Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson, Kyle Williams, Lorenzo Alexander and just a bigger stronger group up front in general and the team had well over 100 TFL's both years.  The last two years with two young DT's and two old, smallish, speed rushing ends our TFL's are down by 10 to 15 per season.  I just don't think we play an attacking type defense and it leaves Edmunds playing a lot of space a lot of the time.  Rousseau and Oliver give me some hope but I have to believe (from a splash play standpoint) that we miss Alexander and Kyle and even Phillips for that matter and when Edmunds is back there in zone trying to lock down a crossing Hill or Kelce I'm guessing Edmunds misses them also.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I didn't notice it consistently. Give me a game?

 

All of them. From about week 9 he was one of the best players on the field every game. 

 

If you want a particular series.... after Josh's 3rd INT early 2nd half vs Atlanta that set them up in Bills territory the Bills got them off the field with a 3 and out in which Ed blew up the middle on all 3 downs. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

All of them. From about week 9 he was one of the best players on the field every game. 

 

If you want a particular series.... after Josh's 3rd INT early 2nd half vs Atlanta that set them up in Bills territory the Bills got them off the field with a 3 and out in which Ed blew up the middle on all 3 downs. 

Atlanta is one that stands out. I don't know if we got that type of play every week since week 9. Like I said, we've seen the signs of what he can become. Something we've yet to see from Edmunds.

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I think some fans aren’t on the same page as to his role in the defense and why he is important. And that there is indeed a place between “bust” and “elite” that can contribute at a high level on a SB team. He’s not a traditional MLB and he doesn’t play the traditional MLB position in this defense. Warren calling him a “huge bust” simply shows his lack of knowledge of the player and scheme. Not every player drafted in the first round is a “bust” because they aren’t “elite” by age 23. 
 

not sure what or if they will pay Edmunds but it appears the viewpoint the team has is that he is valuable. WRT what he’s asked to do against the run and pass and communication in THIS defense, his value is very high even if *and i know this is difficult to comprehend for some * he doesn’t make (gasp) every play. 

We will see how much they value him when they have a handful of other guys to pay as well...

[Simon Says]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:02 AM, Jauronimo said:

Hes basically still a rookie...

He has already played 4 seasons. Bulls might try using him differently or revising LB alignment 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Georgie said:

He has already played 4 seasons. Bulls might try using him differently or revising LB alignment 

Their base D only has 2 LBs. Are you suggesting moving him to Milano’s position?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

We will see how much they value him when they have a handful of other guys to pay as well...

 

I mean, Beane hasn't been trotting around OBD wearing horseblinders, he knows who is in line to be paid and when

[Bill from NYC]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:07 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Things a player CAN'T and DOESN'T do can also be a negative.

 

2016 Bills offense under Tyrod Taylor thru 15 games(prior to his benching) was 7th in the NFL in scoring.......1st in the NFL in plays over 20 yards(big plays) and 1st in rushing(both for the second consecutive season)..........and had turned the ball over fewer times than any team in the SB era.

 

Statistically the best offense the Bills had fielded since 1991.

 

It wasn't the mistakes with Taylor.........it was the lack of plays he made as a pocket passer.

 

The lack of plays made is the issue with Edmunds...........you can play excellent defense AROUND Edmunds the same way that you could play excellent offense AROUND Taylor...................but if you need him to be a difference maker you are SOL...........and that's not what you draft a guy in the middle of round 1 to be.

 

 

And trade up to get.

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I mean, Beane hasn't been trotting around OBD wearing horseblinders, he knows who is in line to be paid and when

Obviously...But I was referring more to the fact that you can’t pay everyone- so we will see how much he values Edmunds compared to other guys who are due paydays...👍

[MasterStrategist]

7 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

I think in 2018 and 2019 we had Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson, Kyle Williams, Lorenzo Alexander and just a bigger stronger group up front in general and the team had well over 100 TFL's both years.  The last two years with two young DT's and two old, smallish, speed rushing ends our TFL's are down by 10 to 15 per season.  I just don't think we play an attacking type defense and it leaves Edmunds playing a lot of space a lot of the time.  Rousseau and Oliver give me some hope but I have to believe (from a splash play standpoint) that we miss Alexander and Kyle and even Phillips for that matter and when Edmunds is back there in zone trying to lock down a crossing Hill or Kelce I'm guessing Edmunds misses them also.

Exactly, said this earlier in the thread that our front 4 has a big influence on the type of player that Edmunds (and Milano) can become.

 

For everyone claiming Edmunds needs to go, or we can easily replace him, what about our dline?  Newsflash, Edmunds and Milano (or whoever our LBs are) are playing behind a line that featured: Hughes, Oliver, Rousseau, Harry, Addison, Star, and a combination of Efe, Basham, AJ, and Butler.  

 

Do we honestly expect any of our LBs to perform well behind a group like that?  Milano even had a down season, from his prior work.  Certainly a correlation when we see both LBs not make splash plays, to me it points to Dline not performing as well.

 

Point is, get more physical/talented players in our front 4 and watch Edmunds/Milano be a top 5 combination.