Walter Football Mock with the Hot Take on our MLB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

I get your point, but you just described a bust for a player drafted 16th overall.  He can play in this league and it’s not his fault that he was drafted too early, but that’s how draft picks are judged.

 

Question: if "huge bust" or "bust" describes a player who has started consistently in an important role on a defense that's statistically good, but was drafted 16th overall and is not a star, how do you describe other players who were drafted in the 1st round and have not done as much?

 

Darron Lee

Charles Harris

etc

 

How do you describe other players who were drafted high in the first round and have started, but perhaps not been all that was hoped for contributions?

Devin Bush

Rashan Gary

etc

 

I think people get laser-focused on how our guys do or don't measure up to our expectations and lose perspective on how they compare to other players drafted in similar slots.  Not everyone who is drafted in the middle of the first round or above becomes a star.

 

I also think the term "bust" gets tossed around pretty freely to mean "any guy I wouldn't have drafted there" or "any guy who isn't producing the stats I think he should produce" vs. its original use, which was IMO to describe a guy who just couldn't play.

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

But I thought the Bills DT's were a liability...........so Edmunds couldn't make plays in run defense?

 

I believe that's sarcasm

 

and yet

 

From the way you consistently criticize Lotulelei and Butler and Harry etc

 

Isn't that what YOU think - that the Bills DT are a liability, that they don't close gaps and at best, they occupy two blockers but don't move them around and make tackles?

 

And if that's correct, then wouldn't that be expected to impact LB play?

 

How do you account for Edmunds having his best statistical year in 2018 with Kyle Williams and Lotulelei ahead of him and a side order of Phillipses?

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm so exhausted discussing Edmunds. His list of deficiencies far outweighs his strengths. And there's no way he gets extended. He'll either be traded or play out his contract year.

Let’s put some money on that

[BillsFanMike]

Keep him. He's young and still has a high ceiling. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is kind of the dilemma with Edmunds that I think fans are having. They don't ask him to do a lot besides take up space. He's very good at taking up space. With our defense playing mostly nickel, I don't want to move on from a LB that plays nearly 100% of the snaps. He's very dependable. It's big risk to try and upgrade. 

 

Quote

“Interesting guy (Edmunds) because they don't use him in coverage very much. He'll cover backs at times, but he rarely covers was tight ends, because Milano does that or if Milano blitzes, they have one of the safeties do that,” Greg Cosell of NFL Films, an analyst on ESPN's NFL Matchup, said. “Edmunds rarely matches up man-to-man to tight ends, which is kind of interesting in and of itself, given his length and his athleticism. … It just strikes me as odd given the athletic traits. I think he's a good player. My sense is he's not a dominant player.”

 

"The amount of space he takes away just by his mere presence in the middle of the field is unlike anything that’s been seen in a very long time," Saleh said of Edmunds. "I think [Brian] Urlacher would probably be one of those guys."

https://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/37052/bills-face-key-decision-on-extending-linebacker-tremaine-edmunds

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Extend him.

19 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

4)  Move him to the outside.

 

 

You have someone named Milano.

[DJB]

18 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

You must have missed my note in bold at the bottom.

This is a hypothetical with a poll - if you don't like it, please feel free to visit another topic.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

So you must think Devin Bush, Devin White, Lavonte David, Fred Warner, Bobby Wagner, and Myles Jack also have no instincts and can’t get off blocks right? Give me a break.

 

No, quite the opposite with most of those guys,  lesser traits and more instincts.

 

Though I wouldn't identify Bush, who struggled this season after a season ending injury in 2020.......... or the seriously disappointing Myles Jack as guys who are really perceived as better than Edmunds at this point.

 

Edmunds is a middle of the league starting ILB/MLB...........it's not a premium position so it's a lot like being a middle of the league starting RB............he's been "meh"..........but he has physical talent to be an All Pro.

 

Good comparison would be if Derrick Henry was a middle of the league starting RB in year 4 of his career..............people would surely say "that's it?"..........as are Bills fans and people like Jason LaCanfora who thought he was going to be the best defensive player in football last season.  

 

[B-Man]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Extend him.

You have someone named Milano.

 

 

You have two outsides.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

 

You have two outsides.

No they don't. We're a base nickle defense.

[PonyBoy]

If ever a poll needed an "other" category this would be it. The responses would have been hilarious!

[Mr. WEO]

32 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

You must have missed my note in bold at the bottom.

This is a hypothetical with a poll - if you don't like it, please feel free to visit another topic.

 

I've checked the other 2 "what to do with Edmunds" threads on page 1....the poll doesn't take it to the level you imagined.

[Brand J]

There was a poll already on this topic that read “Should the Bills extend Edmunds?” 

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: if "huge bust" or "bust" describes a player who has started consistently in an important role on a defense that's statistically good, but was drafted 16th overall and is not a star, how do you describe other players who were drafted in the 1st round and have not done as much?

 

Darron Lee

Charles Harris

etc

 

How do you describe other players who were drafted high in the first round and have started, but perhaps not been all that was hoped for contributions?

Devin Bush

Rashan Gary

etc

 

I think people get laser-focused on how our guys do or don't measure up to our expectations and lose perspective on how they compare to other players drafted in similar slots.  Not everyone who is drafted in the middle of the first round or above becomes a star.

 

I also think the term "bust" gets tossed around pretty freely to mean "any guy I wouldn't have drafted there" or "any guy who isn't producing the stats I think he should produce" vs. its original use, which was IMO to describe a guy who just couldn't play.

 

 

I believe that's sarcasm

 

and yet

 

From the way you consistently criticize Lotulelei and Butler and Harry etc

 

Isn't that what YOU think - that the Bills DT are a liability, that they don't close gaps and at best, they occupy two blockers but don't move them around and make tackles?

 

And if that's correct, then wouldn't that be expected to impact LB play?

 

How do you account for Edmunds having his best statistical year in 2018 with Kyle Williams and Lotulelei ahead of him and a side order of Phillipses?

 

 

I consistently criticize Harrison Phillips?   That's a lie.

 

In 2020 I said both Phillips and Butler played admirably at DT1T.    Oliver was also very good.

 

In 2021 Phillips and Oliver were both above average to very good at their jobs.

 

If Edmunds needs ELITE talent at DT to make ANY plays whatsoever then it's a much bigger problem than support in front of him.

 

I accounted for Edmunds best statistical year being 2018 as him not thinking as much..............right from the opening game when he had a strip sack in Baltimore he was better when he didn't know what he didn't know.

 

One of the DUMBEST f*cking notions ever is that Kyle Williams was good in run defense............he was simply a penetrator and pass rusher...........2021 Oliver was a much better all around player than KW was in 2018.    Statistically they may look about the same but KW wasn't capable of manning DT1T at f*cking all and was lousy in run defense.  

 

And 2021 Harrison Phillips was much better than 2018 Lotulelei.

 

[gobills404]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No, quite the opposite with most of those guys,  lesser traits and more instincts.

 

Though I wouldn't identify Bush, who struggled this season after a season ending injury in 2020.......... or the seriously disappointing Myles Jack as guys who are really perceived as better than Edmunds at this point.

 

Edmunds is a middle of the league starting ILB/MLB...........it's not a premium position so it's a lot like being a middle of the league starting RB............he's been "meh"..........but he has physical talent to be an All Pro.

 

Good comparison would be if Derrick Henry was a middle of the league starting RB in year 4 of his career..............people would surely say "that's it?"..........as are Bills fans and people like Jason LaCanfora who thought he was going to be the best defensive player in football last season.  

 

Here’s the picture from the tweet you originally replied to since you obviously didn’t actually look at it.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I consistently criticize Harrison Phillips?   That's a lie.

 

In 2020 I said both Phillips and Butler played admirably at DT1T.    Oliver was also very good.

 

In 2021 Phillips and Oliver were both above average to very good at their jobs.

 

If Edmunds needs ELITE talent at DT to make ANY plays whatsoever then it's a much bigger problem than support in front of him.

 

I accounted for Edmunds best statistical year being 2018 as him not thinking as much..............right from the opening game when he had a strip sack in Baltimore he was better when he didn't know what he didn't know.

 

One of the DUMBEST f*cking notions ever is that Kyle Williams was good in run defense............he was simply a penetrator and pass rusher...........2021 Oliver was a much better all around player than KW was in 2018.    Statistically they may look about the same but KW wasn't capable of manning DT1T at f*cking all and was lousy in run defense.  

 

And 2021 Harrison Phillips was much better than 2018 Lotulelei.

 

 

Typical.  You're asked a broad question and you fixate on one small bit and throw a Drama Llama hissy fit about it.

You have, in the past, in fact criticized Harry - you've said he was a good tackler at Stanford and has not shown that ability in the Pros, he's undersized and gets injured because of it etc.  Butler too - that the Bills hoped he'd become their big 1TDT and those hopes were mistaken etc.

 

I'm not motivated to go find all that stuff, so if it helps you actually focus on the broader issue raised, I'll concede the point.  I was not talking about just last season, however.

 

Now let's reprise:

From the way you consistently criticize Lotulelei and Butler and Harry etc

 

Isn't that what YOU think - that the Bills DT are a liability, that they don't close gaps and at best, they occupy two blockers but don't move them around and make tackles?

 

And if that's correct, then wouldn't that be expected to impact LB play?

 

How do you account for Edmunds having his best statistical year in 2018 with Kyle Williams and Lotulelei ahead of him and a side order of Phillipses?

 

You gonna respond with some actual football talk or throw a hissy again?

 

Would you argue that the Bills DL in general and their DTs in particular last season "met expectations" and provided a good ROI?

 

 

[Process]

2 hours ago, gobills404 said:

 

This chart could not be any more meaningless..... Just watch the games 

[Rigotz]

A lot of people somehow missing the point here...

 

The existing poll and existing thread don't put any parameters on what a "trade" or "extension" mean.

So every thread has devolved into "HE SUCKS, DONT EXTEND HIM" or "TRADE 4 PICKS"

 

That's not what this thread is. It's a realistic hypothetical and plenty of people are answering, so enjoy it, or go cry somewhere else.
 

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

I'd take the 3rd in a trade, but would also be interested in a player:player trade.

Edited February 25, 2022 by DrDawkinstein

[Magox]

If you can sign him to a multi year deal for around $10M a year average - sign him up.

 

If not, trade him - I think you could get a 2nd rounder for him, I believe that a few GM's value him higher than the board does.

[gobills404]

10 minutes ago, Process said:

This chart could not be any more meaningless..... Just watch the games 

And how many games of those non-bills players do you watch? I guess the “eye test” from bills fans in their living rooms is much more meaningful than actually objective numbers from people who watched every snap for all the players. Laughable logic.