JMF2006 Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 When I read the title I was thinking they wanted the wonderlic brought back 1
BarleyNY Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Do we really even need the combine outside of the medicals? Just have pro days for the rest. Medicals and interviews. 1
AuntieEm Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 11 hours ago, MJS said: Seems like the medicals are what the NFLPA are opposed to, right? I think the interviews are valuable. Getting to sit each player down and run through plays and ask other questions. Yea it reads as if they are opposed to every team having their own medical people examine the players rather than just one staff to do physicals then give the results to each teams staff. I personally think Buffalo has generally had a top notch medical staff, largely because WNY does have some of the best medical professionals in the country. So I much rather the Bills staff conduct their own physicals rather than just getting results formulated by some generic staff the combine puts together.
Freak-O Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 The combine is VERY important! We need it for someone to run an extremely fast 40 yard dash so all the Tyreek Hill fanboys shut up.
Niagara Dude Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: That would benefit a team like the Bills because they have lower picks and without combine more talented guys can slip through the cracks. So please cancel 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Gee Hap let me go out tonight and interview all the players and I'll get back to you. That IS the job of the media reporting on the 150 boycotting players, isn't it? The question is, is this info out there on the Interwebs? It's harder to look for it than it is to yelp about the inconsistency of the NFL (which actually doesn't seem supported by the actual procedures) Edit: according to this, it's limiting the contact of the players with their "teams" that's the sticking point: Quote Agents of incoming prospects furnish those players, at their own expense, with trainers, nutritionists and other specialists as part of their preparation for the grueling weeklong event at which they are measured, weighed, interviewed and tested on various skills. The agents have objected to recent changes that have moved some drills to prime time for TV purposes and compressed the amount of time the players have to get everything done while in Indy. In particular, the agents oppose the idea of the bubble that would prevent players from interacting with some of the key people charged with making sure they're at their best for combine week. One source close to the situation said the nutrition aspect was among the most upsetting, since many of the prospects are trying to reach certain weights in time for the combine and that effort could be upset by the last-minute decision by the league to be the sole provider of food for prospects at the event. My guess is, then, it's gonna be the top prospects who bail; I don't think the small school guys get agents who provide "trainers, nutritionists, and other specialists" so the absence of these isn't too worrying. It does seem as though the NFL is being a tad silly about this. What is their concern exactly?
Gugny Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Do we really even need the combine outside of the medicals? Just have pro days for the rest. I think the combine is as useless as the Pro Bowl. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Do we really even need the combine outside of the medicals? Just have pro days for the rest. From what I've been reading, the combine doesn't matter too much to top prospects (the ones who have "camps" working with them) Teams will send scouts to their pro days at their schools Isn't the combine more of a deal to the players who got limited playing time at big programs and who benefit from an "apples to apples" comparison of their athleticism, and an even bigger deal to players from small schools who might not get scouted otherwise?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 4 hours ago, pigpen65 said: A player doesn't have to go to the combine of they don't want to. Its not like the combine is going to be short 150 players if they don't go. There's a line of thousands of prospects behind them who will happily step right in. I understand why it's being reported but its really a complete non story So according to pro-football-talk, the Combine has 324 invited players, who are the top college players across the country. If 155 of them bail, that's close to half of them - which seems like a story 1
Buffalosouth Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 32 picks per round 5 rounds is 160 picks I would imagine draft pick retention drops off a bit after the 5th rd. If it's that group of guys its a problem for the league. If it's the back half I don't think they will care too much. Especially after the covid draft where players sat out for a year. It's definitely not a slave auction though.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Buffalosouth said: 32 picks per round 5 rounds is 160 picks I would imagine draft pick retention drops off a bit after the 5th rd. If it's that group of guys its a problem for the league. If it's the back half I don't think they will care too much. Especially after the covid draft where players sat out for a year. It's definitely not a slave auction though. Whisky tango foxtrot on that last bit, it seems gratuitous? I don't think it's going to affect the drafting of the top picks. It may affect where they're drafted, which matters to them more than the NFL - seems every year a dozen or so players see their stock rise after a great combine performance. I read that 486 undrafted players made Week 1 NFL rosters and that there are more undrafted players in the NFL than 1st and 2nd rounders combined. That's ~1/4 of the NFL. They still get a rookie salary of $660k. But it's still a big deal to the players to get drafted, because 6th and 7th round draft picks get a signing bonus of $76-200k. They keep that if they don't make the 53 man roster, and because there's a bit of a "sunk cost" in them, they may get more chances to make the roster. So the combine is a big deal to the players who fall outside the first 4 rounds - it has a huge effect on what signing bonus they get, or whether they get a bonus by being drafted. 1
Buffalosouth Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Whisky tango foxtrot on that last bit, it seems gratuitous? I don't think it's going to affect the drafting of the top picks. It may affect where they're drafted, which matters to them more than the NFL - seems every year a dozen or so players see their stock rise after a great combine performance. I read that 486 undrafted players made Week 1 NFL rosters and that there are more undrafted players in the NFL than 1st and 2nd rounders combined. That's ~1/4 of the NFL. They still get a rookie salary of $660k. But it's still a big deal to the players to get drafted, because 6th and 7th round draft picks get a signing bonus of $76-200k. They keep that if they don't make the 53 man roster, and because there's a bit of a "sunk cost" in them, they may get more chances to make the roster. So the combine is a big deal to the players who fall outside the first 4 rounds - it has a huge effect on what signing bonus they get, or whether they get a bonus by being drafted. I try to make at least a cringy joke as to provide some comedic relief. Nearly 500 undrafted seems like a insanely high amount even if it includes practice squad. But shouldn't come as a surprise since I would imagine those guys love the game and are willing to give more to be there.
OldTimer1960 Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 16 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Do we really even need the combine outside of the medicals? Just have pro days for the rest. The Combine affords teams the ability to get comparable performance test results for all of the participants. At the Combine, everyone runs, jumps, lifts under the exact same conditions. To compare pro day performances, you need to worry about different conditions- for example a “faster” or “slower” surface for speed drills. You also don’t have to worry that maybe one school sets up their 40 yard dash line just shot of 40 or worry that QB A is throwing under ideal conditions and QB B is in windy, wet conditions. Easy to imagine other differences fro pro day site to pro day site. Now, does that outweigh whatever grievances players have with the Combine? I guess that is an individual decision. I don’t see the big deal or what players/agents might be up in arms about in general about the Combine. I can at least understand why players and agents are mad at the COVID restrictions because it limits what support personnel (trainers, nutritionists, interview coaches, etc can be with the players. Still, that doesn’t seem like a big sacrifice in my view. As always, the highly rated players can get away with not attending or participating, because teams will grumble but attend their pro days. The lesser coveted guys looking to improve their stock will probably benefit by being at the Combine and participating. 1
OldTimer1960 Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 15 hours ago, gonzo1105 said: The interviews and medicals are the most important thing in my opinion. These guys have so much tape on these guys. Just let them do their pro days and use the combine for medicals and interviews. The problem again is the NFL has made it into a huge money maker over a week-long event in the offseason and wants to capitalize on the monetary gains. Here's an idea pay the prospects for their time. They are technically professionals now interviewing for a job. It's a compromise that might work. The game tape is very important, of course, but how do you judge a player who played against middling competition and dominated? He LOOKS fast against the opponents he played, but is he really NFL fast? Can’t always tell from game tape. Likewise in terms of strength and quickness. It is also valuable just to see how a guy reacts in an unfamiliar environment where he doesn’t have as many people as usual helping/coaching him. 13 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/02/nfl-combine-heavily-increasing-covid-protocols There ya go Hap Happy It doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. What is so egregious?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 26 minutes ago, Buffalosouth said: Nearly 500 undrafted seems like a insanely high amount even if it includes practice squad. But shouldn't come as a surprise since I would imagine those guys love the game and are willing to give more to be there. So first off, I sanity-checked and on the Bills roster currently there are 17 undrafted guys, 13 of whom were on the 53 man roster during the season. That would be 24-25% of the 53 man roster, and if multiplied by 32 teams, would be 424 players. Bills signed 8 UDFA in 2019, 8 in 2020, and 6 in 2021. Of them, Cam Lewis, Tyrell Dodson, Reggie Gilliam are on the team; Antonio Williams is in the league; Q Morris Olijah Griffin and Nick McCloud are still around. 15% if you just count the ones on the roster. How I think it happens is just a numbers game. The team has 7 draft picks (we know that number varies, but let's say it averages 7). If the team averages 7 UDFA a year, even if the retention rate for UDFA is 1/3 of the retention rate for draft picks, over time they're going to make up ~25% of the roster? 1
Chandler#81 Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Obviously, these morons didn’t bother attending class. This is their lively hood their screwin’ with, just to make noise on a nearly obsolete premise. No empathy here. I hope they’re all undrafted. Edited February 21, 2022 by Chandler#81 1
LeGOATski Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 Workouts have been optional anyway. Don't players skip certain events every year? Just go do the interview and medical if you're so worried about not having your training staff there.
gonzo1105 Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 4 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: The game tape is very important, of course, but how do you judge a player who played against middling competition and dominated? He LOOKS fast against the opponents he played, but is he really NFL fast? Can’t always tell from game tape. Likewise in terms of strength and quickness. It is also valuable just to see how a guy reacts in an unfamiliar environment where he doesn’t have as many people as usual helping/coaching him. It doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. What is so egregious? Senior bowl is a good measuring stick for G5 guys to measure up against big school guys. Pro days show their speed etc. it really comes down to the NFL gets a ton of money and eyeballs on the NFL in the off-season and doesn’t want that apple cart ruined
In Summary Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 If you're projected to go late round or UFA, you'll likely do whatever you're told if you think your combine performance can help you.
ColoradoBills Posted February 21, 2022 Posted February 21, 2022 If 1 or 150 players don't want to attend the combine it's their right not to go. If 1 or up to 32 teams think it will affect their decisions, that's their business too. The NFL is having a "job fair", show up or don't show up. If X amount don't show up and they want to invite others, do it or don't do it. Why is this a big deal?
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