Hypothetical trade-Erik McCoy

[Robert Paulson]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A C on the last year of his rookie contract, no doubt

3RD OR 4TH as we are helping NO with their cap they can throw in a later rounder.\

 

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Not sure what the obsession with cutting Morse is.  He was a good player for us, knows the offense, and has been the center in Josh's best years.   If we keep a awful punter because he holds the ball well for the kicker, do you really think we will cut a good center who our QB is happy with?

 

But just for the sake of looking at the scenario let me try and summarize.

 

1.  We cut a good center and team leader and eat close to 3 million in cap space.

2. We trade a high draft pick for a player who is essentially the same level of center we just cut

3. We then have to resign the player for what would likely be the same amount we just saved on cutting the good center we already have?

 

The ideal play for Morse is a restructure that adds two more years to his current deal.   Whoever wrote this article is just putting words down on paper, there is literally no substance to what he is inferring.   Definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

 

First.........it's been rumored that Morse may retire.........he's going to be 30 and has a serious concussion history............these are the reasons why there is speculation about replacing him.

 

To me.........they've spent years grooming Ryan Bates to be his replacement...........I'd suspect that if they cut Morse or he retired that Bates would be given first crack at C and that they'd try to add a more physically imposing talent at LG to replace Bates(who really should only be penciled in there anyway).

 

Certainly can't see trading a premium pick for the barely 300# McCoy and lining him up next to another barely 300# guy in Bates.   

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A C on the last year of his rookie contract, no doubt

 

He'll get paid on his next contract--maybe just about what Morse is getting....plus a 1st round pick.  nh.

 

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

You say a much cheaper price?  You need to add in the $3.75 dead cap hit for Morse.  Now you're up to a total of $7 mil spent on the center position.  Plus giving up draft capitol.

 

People are often promoting cut this guy and replace him with another.  But you need to look at the total cost of what you're going to pay to get rid of the first guy plus pay the second guy, then decide if it's really worth it and how much are you really saving

 

In the OP proposal, yes you're still saving $4 mil, but think you could re-do Morse contract and get the number down close to the $7 mil and then replace him with a much cheap rookie contract.  Haven't heard anything from him about retiring due to concussions, would think by now if that was his plan, you'd have heard. 

 

To me the best solution is re-work his contract, pay him like maybe $6 to $7 mil this year, draft a rookie G/C to be backup this year and starter in 2023 at center.  I'd likely also sign one vet FA guard to start this year and re-sign Bates and Ike.  Let Mongo walk, and get Williams to taker a pay cut.

 

yeah I don't see how this makes any sense either.

 

[klos63]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

First.........it's been rumored that Morse may retire.........he's going to be 30 and has a serious concussion history............these are the reasons why there is speculation about replacing him.

 

To me.........they've spent years grooming Ryan Bates to be his replacement...........I'd suspect that if they cut Morse or he retired that Bates would be given first crack at C and that they'd try to add a more physically imposing talent at LG to replace Bates(who really should only be penciled in there anyway).

 

Certainly can't see trading a premium pick for the barely 300# McCoy and lining him up next to another barely 300# guy in Bates.   

Morse has started 47 of 49 games as a Bill, one miss was a healthy scratch.  He's probably fairly healthy.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Morse has started 47 of 49 games as a Bill, one miss was a healthy scratch.  He's probably fairly healthy.

 

 

I don't disagree that he's probably healthy aside from the concussions..........those tend to be easier to sustain the more of them that you get.

 

If he can avoid those and they use him the way they did late in the season he is a real asset at C.

 

But he did miss basically all of TC his first year with the Bills after his 4th career concussion and missed time in 2020 after his 5th concussion,  on a seemingly innocuous play for a center,  against the Patriots.   

 

With a huge cap number his status definitely has to be a consideration for Beane.

[Wyobills89]

He also just had a child. I could see him start to think more long term for his child sake. 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't disagree that he's probably healthy aside from the concussions..........those tend to be easier to sustain the more of them that you get.

 

If he can avoid those and they use him the way they did late in the season he is a real asset at C.

 

But he did miss basically all of TC his first year with the Bills after his 4th career concussion and missed time in 2020 after his 5th concussion,  on a seemingly innocuous play for a center,  against the Patriots.   

 

With a huge cap number his status definitely has to be a consideration for Beane.

missed 1 game.  Not to diminish the effect of concussions , but it seems like so many are making decisions for him. Has he mentioned that he's considering retiring?

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

First.........it's been rumored that Morse may retire.........he's going to be 30 and has a serious concussion history............these are the reasons why there is speculation about replacing him.

 

To me.........they've spent years grooming Ryan Bates to be his replacement...........I'd suspect that if they cut Morse or he retired that Bates would be given first crack at C and that they'd try to add a more physically imposing talent at LG to replace Bates(who really should only be penciled in there anyway).

 

Certainly can't see trading a premium pick for the barely 300# McCoy and lining him up next to another barely 300# guy in Bates.   

Sorry man but the serious concussion stuff has been way way overblown.   Has he had concussions, yes.  But, he's missed two games in three years in Buffalo, and one of those games he was a healthy scratch.  The retirement rumor is just that until it becomes reality.   It's a rumor that got started on twitter because Morse gave Andy Reid a long hug after the playoff game.    Who knows maybe the guy retires, probably wont know until March, but to me its nothing but speculation by bored fans with nothing else to talk about.  

 

Every offseason fans look on spotrac and see who has a small cap hit, and if said guy isnt an All-Pro, they automatically assume the guy is getting cut.   To me, as I said in my original post, Morse is a better candidate for a restructure. 

 

On the Ryan Bates thing, if they were grooming Bates to be the Center,  I feel like he would have started there when Morse actually went down.  If you remember it was Feliciano instead.  Not to mention, Ryan Bates isnt currently on the roster.   The Bills will probably tender him, but if he was really the long term plan at center why would they wait three seasons to make it happen?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Was Morse a cause of alleged friction between Daboll and McDermott? 🤔

*
😉😁

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, klos63 said:

how about add 2 real years to his deal. He was excellent this season and is only 29 years old. I'd like to have him around a few more years. Centers are critical.

$75 million over the cap and bleacher report things they should get rid of one of their better contracts?  Come on.  Where will they get a serviceable center for less than $3.4?

 

It's $3.4 mil + $3.75 in dead cap.  So you're spending $7.1 mil on the center position.  That doesn't sound good to me for a guy on the last year of his contract.  Next year to resign him likely need to pay him as much as you were paying Morse

[Tanoros]

12 hours ago, Seoulofstone said:

There has been some talk about the future for the Bills at center. Morse had a good season and Is a reliable good quality player.

 

The questions surrounding him are based on two factors. Firstly his motivation and willingness to continue in the context of his consussion history. If he is happy to stay the best outcome is surely to keep that continuity and welcome him back. The reason that Morse has been discussed so much is because he is low-hanging fruit when it comes to cap-savings. Over the Cap has him as an $8.5 million cap saving.

 

 The question here is not so much whether or not Morse is a player we want to keep as one of freeing up cap space and finding a quality young player at this key poistion. In the draft, both Tyler Linderbaum and Zion Johnson who demonstrated versatility at the senior bowl taking snaps at center, could be solutions but its equally possible that they are both gone when we pick. Its also not impossible that they could struggle in the step-up to the league.

 

 That's why this trade from bleacher report is an intriguing idea to me.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953611-the-ideal-offseason-trade-scenario-for-every-nfl-team

 

 

The Buffalo Bills could save themselves money and upgrade a key position on the offensive line with two moves that make a lot of sense. 

The first is to cut Mitch Morse. The center is set to be the fourth-highest-paid at his position in 2022, but the majority of his cap hit ($8.5 million) would become cap savings if they release him. 

The second would be to call up the New Orleans Saints and work out a trade to bring in Erik McCoy. 

The Saints face an uphill climb in creating cap space now and in the future. They are currently slated to be more than $75 million over the cap. McCoy doesn't make a ton of money. He's only owed $3.4 million in the final year of his rookie deal, but the Saints would save nearly $3 million by trading him.

That might not seem like much, but it also takes off the pressure to sign him to a long-term deal. The Bills, meanwhile, would get a reasonable replacement for Morse at a much cheaper price. McCoy has only allowed two sacks over his first three seasons in the league, per PFF. 

 

 I like the idea of taking a proven young player on a rookie contract from a cap strapped non-contending team. They have a plug and play replacement in Cezar Ruiz too. I would be ok with spending our first round pick on this player helping create cap space through Morse's release.

Not for a first at all. We are tight against the cap too, and we would have to pay him next year, so that also has to be considered. As far as first round picks are concerned, we really need good or better players on rookie deals to really make us strong. The first round pick is out best chance at that each season, so they have to be used wisely. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Putin]

11 hours ago, Seoulofstone said:

OK. Why? You don't like the player? You don't want to give up the first rounder? You're convinced the 25th pick will get us a guaranteed starter on a rookie deal?

 

I liked the Rousseau pick last year. But he struggled to make an impact for most of the year. If he comes through for us its great, but nothing is guaranteed through the draft.

If we to give up a 1st round pick in a trade it should be a DE someone that could change the outcome of the game in one play 

[Locomark]

If we are going to make a trade, let’s just not go after a hole we create for ourselves, but let’s fill a gaping hole we already have at CB or big DT or star DE. 

[without a drought]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Was Morse a cause of alleged friction between Daboll and McDermott? 🤔

*
😉😁

I'm not sure, but I believe he was behind Diggs being underutilized against the Chiefs. 

 

And don't get me started on Morse and his 13 seconds of shame. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Sorry man but the serious concussion stuff has been way way overblown.   Has he had concussions, yes.  But, he's missed two games in three years in Buffalo, and one of those games he was a healthy scratch.  The retirement rumor is just that until it becomes reality.   It's a rumor that got started on twitter because Morse gave Andy Reid a long hug after the playoff game.    Who knows maybe the guy retires, probably wont know until March, but to me its nothing but speculation by bored fans with nothing else to talk about.  

 

Every offseason fans look on spotrac and see who has a small cap hit, and if said guy isnt an All-Pro, they automatically assume the guy is getting cut.   To me, as I said in my original post, Morse is a better candidate for a restructure. 

 

On the Ryan Bates thing, if they were grooming Bates to be the Center,  I feel like he would have started there when Morse actually went down.  If you remember it was Feliciano instead.  Not to mention, Ryan Bates isnt currently on the roster.   The Bills will probably tender him, but if he was really the long term plan at center why would they wait three seasons to make it happen?

 

He's missed two games..........and a month of camp with concussions since coming to Buffalo........and he missed time with the prior 3 concussions in KC........if you want to say his concussions are no big deal than that's just a "you" call.    To most everyone else his history is a serious concern.    

 

And he's also 30 years of age this season........I know every "the OL is fine, patch these other perceived holes" type on this board thinks that our lineman are going to have the longevity of all-time greats but in reality 29-31 is usually when it's over for starting OL.

 

Look at the league's top rushing OL under Greg Roman in Buffalo........with the exception of the deranged Incognito...........Mills, Miller, Wood and Glenn were all done or have been reduced to reserve roles around between 29-31.

 

As for Feliciano starting over Bates at C in 2020...........of course.......Feliciano was a well paid veteran free agent acquisition with game experience at center.........Bates was early into his second season with little game experience.    

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

missed 1 game.  Not to diminish the effect of concussions , but it seems like so many are making decisions for him. Has he mentioned that he's considering retiring?

 

 

Who's making decisions for him?   I haven't seen anyone say he needs to call it quits.

 

I trust @GunnerBill when he says he's heard from people who would know that Morse was contemplating retirement.     If that's the case.......well you're probably an old Marv Levy fan, right?  You know what he says about "thinking" about retirement?

 

And even if he isn't retiring.........the Bills have to decide whether they want to retain him for the full $11M+ cap hit or save $7.5M by letting him go and replace him with another player..........like Ryan Bates for $2.4M........and perhaps use the balance to address the position in UFA where a new contract could net them a talented, younger player with a very low initial cap hit.

 

They could extend his contract at age 30.......or add a voidable year.......or ask for another pay cut.........but those kinda' scenario's have not panned out for Beane in prior exercises.

 

And these decisions gotta' be made over the next month because Morse has roster and workout bonuses.

[Augie]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Sorry man but the serious concussion stuff has been way way overblown.   Has he had concussions, yes.  But, he's missed two games in three years in Buffalo, and one of those games he was a healthy scratch.  The retirement rumor is just that until it becomes reality.   It's a rumor that got started on twitter because Morse gave Andy Reid a long hug after the playoff game.    Who knows maybe the guy retires, probably wont know until March, but to me its nothing but speculation by bored fans with nothing else to talk about.  

 

Every offseason fans look on spotrac and see who has a small cap hit, and if said guy isnt an All-Pro, they automatically assume the guy is getting cut.   To me, as I said in my original post, Morse is a better candidate for a restructure. 

 

On the Ryan Bates thing, if they were grooming Bates to be the Center,  I feel like he would have started there when Morse actually went down.  If you remember it was Feliciano instead.  Not to mention, Ryan Bates isnt currently on the roster.   The Bills will probably tender him, but if he was really the long term plan at center why would they wait three seasons to make it happen?

 

I almost hate to post this again, but if a guy can tell a stranger in an airport, who am I to hold back? I met a guy in the Chicago airport and we talked there and on the flight to Buffalo for the opener. He said he was Morse’s uncle and mentioned it would be his last year as a Bill. I said I thought he had one more year on his contract, and he just shrugged and said, “well, you know….:.” 

 

I don’t know who this guy was, or how good his info was, but we talked the whole flight about Mitch, his wife and kids. His wife seemed all about family as well. It could have been him taking comments out of context, jumping to conclusions, or speaking too soon before a real decision was made.  But he believed it, that I’m sure of.  It has more basis than a long hug. 

 

I am NOT saying it will come to pass, but it surprised me to hear, and I can’t ignore it.  A LOT can change between one opener and the next. I’ll just hope he does what’s best for him and his family, and they live a long and healthy life together. 

 

 

.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Augie

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Who's making decisions for him?   I haven't seen anyone say he needs to call it quits.

 

I trust @GunnerBill when he says he's heard from people who would know that Morse was contemplating retirement.     If that's the case.......well you're probably an old Marv Levy fan, right?  You know what he says about "thinking" about retirement?

 

And even if he isn't retiring.........the Bills have to decide whether they want to retain him for the full $11M+ cap hit or save $7.5M by letting him go and replace him with another player..........like Ryan Bates for $2.4M........and perhaps use the balance to address the position in UFA where a new contract could net them a talented, younger player with a very low initial cap hit.

 

They could extend his contract at age 30.......or add a voidable year.......or ask for another pay cut.........but those kinda' scenario's have not panned out for Beane in prior exercises.

 

And these decisions gotta' be made over the next month because Morse has roster and workout bonuses.

 

Yea a decision is needed. I heard from two people that he was considering calling it a day. I think if he isn't then the Bills will do something with his contract and he sticks around. But they are not gonna do anything until he makes a decision. Because they have been stung before by can kicking moves for guys who then retire. 

[DCofNC]

Morse returning is going to be based on Morse wanting to play or not.  You can’t replace him for less and he’s not a bad player.  He got over paid when we signed him, but that’s in the past. I would t be shocked if he retires, won’t be shocked to see him back, but I highly doubt they outright cut him.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Morse returning is going to be based on Morse wanting to play or not.  You can’t replace him for less and he’s not a bad player.  He got over paid when we signed him, but that’s in the past. I would t be shocked if he retires, won’t be shocked to see him back, but I highly doubt they outright cut him.

 

This is where I am. I'll add that I think unlikely he is back with exactly the same contractual situation. If he wants to play the Bills will still want him in my view, but they will likely tweak the contract in some way to lower the 2022 hit.