Diggs on why Josh Allen is QB #1 in league - very good analysis by Diggs IMHO

[CorkScrewHill]

The other guys were talking Herbert and Burrow .. but Diggs went to the heart of it .. Josh vs Mahommes.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Did he say this while satisfying two women simultaneously? 

[BuffaloBillies]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Did he say this while satisfying two women simultaneously? 

 

I think "my guy" was code.

[papazoid]

lets say your a new expansion franchise and you could pick any player in the league to start building a roster

 

it's josh....hes the best player/biggest impact in the league

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

27 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

The other guys were talking Herbert and Burrow .. but Diggs went to the heart of it .. Josh vs Mahommes.

 

 

Diggs is my second favorite addition to the team since the new regime showed up. 

[cDAVIS]

I am obviously biased but even if all 4 we're on the same skill level which they aren't, I would take Josh hands down based off his personality and extreme determination to win at all costs. 

 

We literally have a once in a lifetime QB on our hands. 

[MiltonWaddams]

My buddies who are fans of other teams all call me biased. They say that I have a man crush. They talk about making, and winning, the Super Bowl being the true measure of a QB. I don’t give a *****. Josh Allen is the best QB in the league today and if they don’t see it, then they are blind.

[msw2112]

Burrow:  Burrow is an excellent QB - smart, accurate, competitve, tough, and a winner.  He's also got some mobility.  All that said, he just is not as physically gifted as the other three, as a runner/athlete or as far as pure arm talent.  Ultimately, his defense and FG kicker, with a clunker of a half by the Chiefs offense, got him to the Super Bowl.

 

Herbert:  I honestly have not seen enough of Herbert to make a full analysis, but he seems to be the closest thing to Allen physically.  Herbert appears to have the talent, but is more of a quiet leader and hasn't gotten his team to the playoffs yet (I don't believe), so he just hasn't done enough.  I'm not sure that he has, or will ever have, the charisma that Allen has.

 

Mahomes:  Mahomes has been to 2 Super Bowls, winning 1, and 4 straight AFC Championship games.  So if someone wants to annoint him as the top QB, I can live with that.  Mahomoes has the arm talent and the scrambling ability, and has made some incredible plays in some games (he deserves a lot of credit for 13 seconds, the Bills failures notwithstanding), but I don't think he's as physical or durable as Allen and Herbert.  They are just bigger, stronger guys.  He's also wilted in some big games when defenses have adjusted to his style (Super Bowl vs. TB and 2nd half of AFCCG vs. Cincy). 

 

So, Bills bias aside, I believe Allen is the best QB in the NFL, has the highest upside, and is the guy that most GMs would take if they had to start a NFL team with one QB.

Edited February 18, 2022 by msw2112

[GunnerBill]

I can take an argument for Mahomes. I think he and Josh are neck and neck. Allen caught up ground this year while Pat had the first "down" year of his career. 

 

But Allen is at worst top 2. 

[Success]

I remember when we got Diggs - plenty of opposing fans were saying he'd be a diva & would never be happy with Allen because of Allen's 'inaccuracy.'

 

What an awesome outcome. Like every other fan here, I want a SB - but I really hope we get it while Diggs is still a Bill (and hopefully he'll be here a long time).

 

[starrymessenger]

Mahomes Herbert Burrows Jackson…they can’t do what Josh Allen do.

[dhgold]

Lifetime Bills fan here who thinks the arrival/improvement of Josh Allen is one of the three best things ever to happen to the Bills, along with drafting OJ and the talent infusion of the Kelly/Smith/Thomas era. Still I have to keep it real and say that while I'm just amazed at how good Josh has become, I'd have some reservations about picking him over the other three. (BTW, I live in Colorado and have seen a lot of both Mahomes and Herbert.)

 

JA stands out in terms of physical gifts, competitiveness and desire/determination to improve. While his passing accuracy has improved it's still not nearly as good as the other three. When I've watched him, Herbert has routinely rifled passes 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage into tiny windows. JA's receivers lose a lot of YAC because the pass often doesn't hit them in stride. My other concern about JA is the sustainability of his physical style -- he takes far more avoidable hard hits than the other three; he seems to be learning to avoid hits in less-than-critical situations, but still, he took a pounding in the last four or five games of the season. (Burrow takes a beating too, but because his offensive line stinks, not because he seeks out contact.)

 

I believe that the objective viewer could make a case for any of the four. 

[starrymessenger]

31 minutes ago, dhgold said:

Lifetime Bills fan here who thinks the arrival/improvement of Josh Allen is one of the three best things ever to happen to the Bills, along with drafting OJ and the talent infusion of the Kelly/Smith/Thomas era. Still I have to keep it real and say that while I'm just amazed at how good Josh has become, I'd have some reservations about picking him over the other three. (BTW, I live in Colorado and have seen a lot of both Mahomes and Herbert.)

 

JA stands out in terms of physical gifts, competitiveness and desire/determination to improve. While his passing accuracy has improved it's still not nearly as good as the other three. When I've watched him, Herbert has routinely rifled passes 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage into tiny windows. JA's receivers lose a lot of YAC because the pass often doesn't hit them in stride. My other concern about JA is the sustainability of his physical style -- he takes far more avoidable hard hits than the other three; he seems to be learning to avoid hits in less-than-critical situations, but still, he took a pounding in the last four or five games of the season. (Burrow takes a beating too, but because his offensive line stinks, not because he seeks out contact.)

 

I believe that the objective viewer could make a case for any of the four. 

Yeah but the cases would not be of equal strength imo. Allen can now be considered an accurate passer. Look at how much better his long ball is. Agree its fair to say that his accuracy remains a work in progress and is not yet the final product but not without also saying that it continues to get better. It will prolly never be A Rodgers accurate but the same could be said about the other young QBs. And while it’s true that WRs are sometimes required to make difficult adjustments/catches this is often because Allen is making a throw that the others would not even attempt, and for good reason. Mahomes is very accurate and throws a very receiver friendly ball. Herbert can be pinpoint accurate with excellent arm strength, though perhaps not consistently so. Burrows is an accurate passer. Nuff said.

So I think these guys are all very good to excellent passers of the football. And they can all read a defence.

Passing may be job one but then what about the other stuff? In looking at the package of critical skills that can enable a player at the all important position to impact and indeed single handedly take over a game well…they can’t do what Josh Allen do (tho PM is close).

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

52 minutes ago, dhgold said:

Lifetime Bills fan here who thinks the arrival/improvement of Josh Allen is one of the three best things ever to happen to the Bills, along with drafting OJ and the talent infusion of the Kelly/Smith/Thomas era. Still I have to keep it real and say that while I'm just amazed at how good Josh has become, I'd have some reservations about picking him over the other three. (BTW, I live in Colorado and have seen a lot of both Mahomes and Herbert.)

 

JA stands out in terms of physical gifts, competitiveness and desire/determination to improve. While his passing accuracy has improved it's still not nearly as good as the other three. When I've watched him, Herbert has routinely rifled passes 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage into tiny windows. JA's receivers lose a lot of YAC because the pass often doesn't hit them in stride. My other concern about JA is the sustainability of his physical style -- he takes far more avoidable hard hits than the other three; he seems to be learning to avoid hits in less-than-critical situations, but still, he took a pounding in the last four or five games of the season. (Burrow takes a beating too, but because his offensive line stinks, not because he seeks out contact.)

 

I believe that the objective viewer could make a case for any of the four. 

 

 On a yearly basis Josh has averaged between 6-7 runs a game and in his first few years he did take alot of hard hits. Since then , and especially this year, he has made an effort to slide or go out of bounds unless it's a play they really need, in the 4th quarter mostly, and also as the playoffs approach. 

 

  Alot of people are worried about Josh's future given his style of play, but I just don't see it. Here's why:

 

1.) He runs alot: Compared to other QBs, sure. But he only ran 7 times a game this year and probably slid or ran out of bounds 3 times a game on average. That leaves 4 carries a game. You could say his mobility allows him to escape big hits in the pocket that other QBs can't. (The kind that Burrow gets murdered on). That negates some of the punishment he gets when running the ball.

 

2.) He takes alot of big hits: Yes and no. He takes less than he has in the past and like I stated above he escapes a ton of big hits in the pocket because of his mobility. He weighs 240 during the year and admitted in an interview in Dec. or Jan. that he was approaching 245, he's got size that most QBs don't have. I would say there's more abuse on a LBers body than Josh's and the average weight of Edmunds and Milano is slightly less than Josh's. No one seems too worried about them, especially Milano who only weighs 223(Didn't know that). On a good number of runs he reaches the 2nd level, getting tackled by guys his size or less. Lastly he probably dishes out more punishment than he receives and quite frankly I think he needs it sometimes to get himself mentally into the game.

 

  I had no problem with how they ran him this year. Pretty conservative early through mid-season, then ramped it up during the big games down the stretch and in the playoffs. The offense is a different animal once Josh starts to take off and run. They are so much harder to stop once he's a willing runner. If the passing game is on they are almost impossible to stop, as seen at the end of the season and playoffs.

 

 

[dhgold]

40 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Yeah but the cases would not be of equal strength imo. Allen can now be considered an accurate passer. Look at how much better his long ball is. Agree its fair to say that his accuracy remains a work in progress and is not yet the final product but not without also saying that it continues to get better. It will prolly never be A Rodgers accurate but the same could be said about the other young QBs. And while it’s true that WRs are sometimes required to make difficult adjustments/catches this is often because Allen is making a throw that the others would not even attempt, and for good reason. Mahomes is very accurate and throws a very receiver friendly ball. Herbert can be pinpoint accurate with excellent arm strength, though perhaps not consistently so. Burrows is an accurate passer. Nuff said.

So I think these guys are all very good to excellent passers of the football. And they can all read a defence.

Passing may be job one but then what about the other stuff? In looking at the package of critical skills that can enable a player at the all important position to impact and indeed single handedly take over a game well…they can’t do what Josh Allen do (tho PM is close).

 

IMO, Mahomes' best, so far, is better than JA's. For that matter, I thought Mahomes played slightly better than JA in the recent divisional playoff round shootout. (I thought the differentiator was the magician-like way Mahomes escaped pressure on multiple occasions.) However, as a Bills fan, I take heart in my sense that JA is still improving while the same may not be true of Mahomes.

 

But that's just an aside, my main point in this post is to state JA's other significant weakness which I forgot to mention in my previous post. He is fairly slow to read the field.  He offsets this somewhat by his ability to buy time, but combined with his accuracy issues, this is a noticeable limitation on third and shorts where the kind of quick, precise move-the-sticks throw that Brady, for example, built a career on, is barely in Josh's repertoire.

 

I'm trying to be objective here, not critical. (Burrow, Herbert and even Mahomes have flaws in their games.) Josh at his best reminds me of John Elway at this best. Having lived in Colorado for 30+ years, I'm quite familiar with how that style of play can make a team a contender year after year and get you to the Super Bowl repeatedly.

 

[dhgold]

30 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 On a yearly basis Josh has averaged between 6-7 runs a game and in his first few years he did take alot of hard hits. Since then , and especially this year, he has made an effort to slide or go out of bounds unless it's a play they really need, in the 4th quarter mostly, and also as the playoffs approach. 

 

  Alot of people are worried about Josh's future given his style of play, but I just don't see it. Here's why:

 

1.) He runs alot: Compared to other QBs, sure. But he only ran 7 times a game this year and probably slid or ran out of bounds 3 times a game on average. That leaves 4 carries a game. You could say his mobility allows him to escape big hits in the pocket that other QBs can't. (The kind that Burrow gets murdered on). That negates some of the punishment he gets when running the ball.

 

2.) He takes alot of big hits: Yes and no. He takes less than he has in the past and like I stated above he escapes a ton of big hits in the pocket because of his mobility. He weighs 240 during the year and admitted in an interview in Dec. or Jan. that he was approaching 245, he's got size that most QBs don't have. I would say there's more abuse on a LBers body than Josh's and the average weight of Edmunds and Milano is slightly less than Josh's. No one seems too worried about them, especially Milano who only weighs 223(Didn't know that). On a good number of runs he reaches the 2nd level, getting tackled by guys his size or less. Lastly he probably dishes out more punishment than he receives and quite frankly I think he needs it sometimes to get himself mentally into the game.

 

  I had no problem with how they ran him this year. Pretty conservative early through mid-season, then ramped it up during the big games down the stretch and in the playoffs. The offense is a different animal once Josh starts to take off and run. They are so much harder to stop once he's a willing runner. If the passing game is on they are almost impossible to stop, as seen at the end of the season and playoffs.

 

 

When he's not reminding me of Elway, JA sometimes reminds me of Cam Newton whose rushing attempts through four years are quite comparable to Josh's. While I foresee Josh having a better career than Cam's (JA's intangibles strike me as very good while Cam's were his Achilles heel), sometimes when I watch JA take unnecessary hits, the way Cam's body broke down and his career collapsed comes to mind.

[starrymessenger]

19 minutes ago, dhgold said:

 

IMO, Mahomes' best, so far, is better than JA's. For that matter, I thought Mahomes played slightly better than JA in the recent divisional playoff round shootout. (I thought the differentiator was the magician-like way Mahomes escaped pressure on multiple occasions.) However, as a Bills fan, I take heart in my sense that JA is still improving while the same may not be true of Mahomes.

 

But that's just an aside, my main point in this post is to state JA's other significant weakness which I forgot to mention in my previous post. He is fairly slow to read the field.  He offsets this somewhat by his ability to buy time, but combined with his accuracy issues, this is a noticeable limitation on third and shorts where the kind of quick, precise move-the-sticks throw that Brady, for example, built a career on, is barely in Josh's repertoire.

 

I'm trying to be objective here, not critical. (Burrow, Herbert and even Mahomes have flaws in their games.) Josh at his best reminds me of John Elway at this best. Having lived in Colorado for 30+ years, I'm quite familiar with how that style of play can make a team a contender year after year and get you to the Super Bowl repeatedly.

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I thought Allen did a masterful job of reading/reacting pre and post snap in both playoff games this year. His short area accuracy is good, and has been for awhile and ahead of his long ball accuracy improvement. Even Kurt Warner has come round. And I thought overall he converted 3rd downs well working the last couple of years and was also very good in the red zone. And what about his ability as a running QB. How many linemen have those other guys stiff armed, how many LBs have they hurdled and how many DBs have they trucked. How mobile is Burrows of the many sacks? Some would say he’s not in the mould of the modern QB. Those skills are important.

Josh bears some resemblance to Elway, but a bigger, better one.
 

[Beast]

Josh is Larry Czonka with a golden arm.

[starrymessenger]

10 minutes ago, dhgold said:

When he's not reminding me of Elway, JA sometimes reminds me of Cam Newton whose rushing attempts through four years are quite comparable to Josh's. While I foresee Josh having a better career than Cam's (JA's intangibles strike me as very good while Cam's were his Achilles heel), sometimes when I watch JA take unnecessary hits, the way Cam's body broke down and his career collapsed comes to mind.

That you would mention Cam in the same breath as Allen without comparing them as passers tells me all I need to know. Adios.

[eball]

6 hours ago, cDAVIS said:

I am obviously biased but even if all 4 we're on the same skill level which they aren't, I would take Josh hands down based off his personality and extreme determination to win at all costs. 

 

We literally have a once in a lifetime QB on our hands. 

 

Unicorn.  There’s no question.