Taiwan Jones on About The Game Pod (Squib related)

[Billsfan1972]

16 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, but the ball is bouncing along the ground, and there are a lot of different possible outcomes.   It also could have been recovered at the 30 or 35, depending on where people are lined up, where the kick goes, lots of things.   IT's also possible, of course, that KC screws up somehow and the Bills recover. 

 

But generally, the likely possible outcomes of the squib kick are the ball on the 20 to 30, or 15 to 35, with 12 or 13 seconds left.  With the ball going into the end zone, it was on the 25 with 13 seconds.   It's pretty hard for me to see how that difference was the most important play in the game.   If the Chiefs start on the 20 instead of the 25, Buttker's kicking a 54-yard field goal instead of 49, still within his range.  

 

The kickoff didn't decide the game, and people saying McDermott needed to talk to Bass particularly on that play are wrong. 

 

 

You are a great contributor, know your stuff and write many great posts, but your continual defense of McD is way too much.  Has McD ever screwed up in your opinion?  He did here, in some way, shape or form.  

 

I was screaming (friends were over) with 13 seconds to squib or to force a return (and I know nothing).  That was the key play....  Take another 3-5 seconds off the clock.  Then it is simple, do whatever you can to ensure Hill or Kelce don't catch 20+ yard passes.   On the Kelce pass the DB was playing 40 yards off the LOS!!!!!!  He used two timeouts and still accomplished nothing.

 

McD regardless is the person responsible for communication.  If they can't communicate a squib kick, that is on him.  His protocols & communication was terrible if that was the call (squib).  

Edited February 17, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You are a great contributor, know your stuff and write many great posts, but your continual defense of McD is way too much.  Has McD ever screwed up in your opinion?  He did here, in some way, shape or form.  

 

I was screaming (friends were over) with 13 seconds to squib or to force a return (and I know nothing).  That was the key play....  Take another 3-5 seconds off the clock.  Then it is simple, do whatever you can to ensure Hill or Kelce don't catch 20+ yard passes.   On the Kelce pas the DB was playing 40 yards off the LOS!!!!!!  He used two timeouts and still accomplished nothing.

 

McD regardless is the person responsible for communication.  If they can't communicate a squib kick, that is on him.  His protocols & communication was terrible if that was the call (squib).  

A squib was not the best idea. A short kick to the 5 -- a kick that Bass has executed many times -- was the way to go. It literally forces a return, and if the return gets to the 25 or so, that's 5 seconds off the clock (I timed subsequent returns in the other playoff games that got about 20 yards). Sure, you run the risk of a huge return, but that happens in about 1 out of every 50-75 returns. I'll take my chances. There is a very strong chance that a squib takes no time off the clock at all. And it could go out of bounds. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

A squib was not the best idea. A short kick to the 5 -- a kick that Bass has executed many times -- was the way to go. It literally forces a return, and if the return gets to the 25 or so, that's 5 seconds off the clock (I timed subsequent returns in the other playoff games that got about 20 yards). Sure, you run the risk of a huge return, but that happens in about 1 out of every 50-75 returns. I'll take my chances. There is a very strong chance that a squib takes no time off the clock at all. And it could go out of bounds. 

That's what I said way back and started a thread on the subject and agree with you.  Never saw Bass do a squib, but saw plenty of kicks to the 5 and he was money.  I actually did a Zapruder breakdown of the kick😜 to confirm he was kicking it for a touchback.

[Big Turk]

Pretty much already knew something wacky happened when Siran Neal and I think Matekevich were shown coming of the field holding their hands up as if to say "WTF just happened there?" and looking confused.

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

A squib was not the best idea. A short kick to the 5 -- a kick that Bass has executed many times -- was the way to go. It literally forces a return, and if the return gets to the 25 or so, that's 5 seconds off the clock (I timed subsequent returns in the other playoff games that got about 20 yards). Sure, you run the risk of a huge return, but that happens in about 1 out of every 50-75 returns. I'll take my chances. There is a very strong chance that a squib takes no time off the clock at all. And it could go out of bounds. 

I really never thought about it, but I think you're correct about this.  OF course, that kick to the five always goes toward one sideline, typically the right sideline, and there's a risk that your kicker kicks it out of bounds.   But as you say, Bass has made that kick a lot, and frankly I don't recall that he ever put one out of bounds.   Bills know very well how to cover that kick, and it's a kick pretty much forces the return man to return it - he doesn't want to take a knee at the five, or a make a fair catch there.   So it has the benefit of being play the Bills run regularly and the only one that is likely to force the Chiefs to burn clock just to get off their own goal line.  

 

I think people are forgetting that squib kicks are unpredictable.   You can't be sure what you're going to get of it.   If it was a sure thing that you could squib it and keep them on the 15, everyone would squib it all the time, because inside the 20 on a kickoff is very desirable.   They don't use it all the time, because bad things sometimes happen on squib quicks.  

[Billsfan1972]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I really never thought about it, but I think you're correct about this.  OF course, that kick to the five always goes toward one sideline, typically the right sideline, and there's a risk that your kicker kicks it out of bounds.   But as you say, Bass has made that kick a lot, and frankly I don't recall that he ever put one out of bounds.   Bills know very well how to cover that kick, and it's a kick pretty much forces the return man to return it - he doesn't want to take a knee at the five, or a make a fair catch there.   So it has the benefit of being play the Bills run regularly and the only one that is likely to force the Chiefs to burn clock just to get off their own goal line.  

 

I think people are forgetting that squib kicks are unpredictable.   You can't be sure what you're going to get of it.   If it was a sure thing that you could squib it and keep them on the 15, everyone would squib it all the time, because inside the 20 on a kickoff is very desirable.   They don't use it all the time, because bad things sometimes happen on squib quicks.  

I had a whole thread on that following the game and as soon as I saw Bass doing his full 7 yard approach on the kick I knew it was a touchback.  Every kick to the 5 yard line was his FG approach of 3 yards.  60 Yard FG lands at the 5.  No wind and perfect conditions and those kicks were always to the left side (narrowing the field too).

 

 

They did this often during the year and they practiced it.  I don't remember any squib kicks. 

[Brand J]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

 

Seeing this photo again, knowing we’d go on to lose the game, is a gut punch.

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Seeing this photo again, knowing we’d go on to lose the game, is a gut punch.

No idea the picture would be included....  Sorry, hit me too as a gut punch.......

[Warcodered]

 

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I had a whole thread on that following the game and as soon as I saw Bass doing his full 7 yard approach on the kick I knew it was a touchback.  Every kick to the 5 yard line was his FG approach of 3 yards.  60 Yard FG lands at the 5.  No wind and perfect conditions and those kicks were always to the left side (narrowing the field too).

 

 

They did this often during the year and they practiced it.  I don't remember any squib kicks. 

Maybe this was addressed in that thread but if this is true shouldn't have McDermott call timeout if they saw Bass line up seven yards behind the ball?

[Nextmanup]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:24 PM, Shaw66 said:

It's not his job.   He made the call; it's the special teams coordinator's job to execute.   McDermott can't be talking to individual players every time a big play is coming up.

 

McDermott's job was to make the call, and presumably he did.  Then his job was to talk to Frazier about what they were going to do on defense.   So, while someone wasn't doing his job, talking to Bass, McDermott was doing his.   It was squarely on Farwell, and it cost him his job. 

The thing is, the game was not lost on the muffed kickoff.

 

It was lost in the 13 seconds of horribly defended football that followed.

 

 

[Doc]

The Rams kicked the ball into the endzone after scoring the go-ahead TD and with 1:25 on the clock.  It wasn’t the lack of a squib kick that lost the game. 

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Maybe this was addressed in that thread but if this is true shouldn't have McDermott call timeout if they saw Bass line up seven yards behind the ball?

Now, that's a better point.   It isn't his job, either, to be sure everyone lines up the right way, but if he notices something wrong, he's got to intervene. He may very well should have been tipped off by where Bass lined up.

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

The Rams kicked the ball into the endzone after scoring the go-ahead TD and with 1:25 on the clock.  It wasn’t the lack of a squib kick that lost the game. 

I mean I noticed that too, but the Bengals weren't moving the ball like the Chiefs had been.

[2003Contenders]

I have to wonder if there was a conditional strategy that McD presented. That is, if Hill was back there as a kick returner, then boom it through the endzone. Otherwise, pooch or squib kick it. That may explain (but not excuse) why there may have been some confusion regarding the game plan on the kickoff.

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

The Rams kicked the ball into the endzone after scoring the go-ahead TD and with 1:25 on the clock.  It wasn’t the lack of a squib kick that lost the game. 

Come on.  1:25 is a lot different situation than 13 seconds.  You’re smarter than that.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Doc Brown

[TheFunPolice]

EVEN WITH the defense we played, if we killed 4 seconds on this kickoff it's a W for the Bills. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Come on.  1:25 is a lot different situation than 13 seconds.  You’re smarter than that.

 

Is this a serious post?

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

EVEN WITH the defense we played, if we killed 4 seconds on this kickoff it's a W for the Bills. 

No, not likely.  KC would fall on the ball and give themselves up.  Or take a fair catch on a pooch kick.  Either way, no time goes off the clock.  Now, if they muff it, or somehow if the back thinks he has to run, yes, then maybe you get a few seconds, but that wasn't likely to happen.  

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Is this a serious post?

I don’t see how you could make that comparison.  A pooch or squib kick with over a minute and twenty seconds left makes no sense while it makes perfect sense with 13 seconds left.  Especially with how poor our defense was playing against the best offense in the NFL.