Brandon Beane: Top priority for offseason - protecting Josh Allen

[Greg S]

Just now, dje85 said:

 

Yeah, I don't think we need to worry about that..

 

You see his Toronto first pitch? 

 

 

Good point. Surprising though given his arm.

[No_Matter_What]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

My biggest worry headed to the offseason was that Bates had done just enough and Brown showed just enough promise that Beane would convince himself he could "run it back" again with that line.

 

Glad to see that may not be the thinking. I like Bates and Brown...but both have to earn it IMO. Signing the Bobby Harts of the NFL as back up plans isn't going to cut it. 

Agreed. And it seems that it happened to many posters here. In midseason many people were vocal how they "knew" that it was not good to run with the same OL and how Beane had neglected it, and suddenly after couple of better games it seems forgotten.

 

I say bolster the OL as much as possiible. Glad to hear Beane thinks the same. Hopefully he proves it in FA.

Edited February 16, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[H2o]

44 minutes ago, Georgie said:

So,if you keep Williams,where do you make a change?

Williams has versatility. If he agrees to a pay cut then you let him compete for a job, while also being held onto as a quality depth piece in case of injury. 

[MAJBobby]

13 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Well that is not what I am saying. I want to upgrade the line in draft and FA so Williams can become BACKUP. It is not running it with the same people. 

 

I do understand our cap situation. What I am saying is that I'd save money elswhere. I am willing to pay even backup OL more than teams usually do just to make sure OL is best as possible and I will not see another Jags game anymore. And unless you can get a player who is actually BETTER than Williams I keep him and don't care about the cap.

 

If we need to save money, then try to trade Edmunds. I think he is better than most people give him credit for, but we can't pay everyone and we are already paying Milano (and I'd rather keep Oliver and Knox in upcoming future). But that is another discussion

So you are GOOD with a 9M cap hit below AVG backup. 
 

you should care about the cap seeing the Bills have to and are currently NEGATIVE space 

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Protecting Josh Allen goes beyond switching up a couple interior Offensive Lineman.   It also means changes to the running back room, and getting more talent at WR.   The Bills need players who can take a 3 yard pass to the house.  It's something they've needed since Josh has been here.  

I agree about the RB room, we need someone better than Motor as our primary RB1. Robert Foster and John Brown had break away speed, they didn't last long. Truth is Josh does better with guys with quickness and can form separation from defenders. Yes a homerun threat be a nice addition but not necessary as I think we excel when Josh has long time consuming drives as to me easy to obtain success more often that way then hoping something goes right on a bomb. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

My biggest worry headed to the offseason was that Bates had done just enough and Brown showed just enough promise that Beane would convince himself he could "run it back" again with that line.

 

Glad to see that may not be the thinking. I like Bates and Brown...but both have to earn it IMO. Signing the Bobby Harts of the NFL as back up plans isn't going to cut it. 

Bates was fantastic at the end of the season he allowed our run game to start using sweeps and counters because he can get to the 2nd level quickly. In my opinion Bates has already proven he can play LG as well as RT because whenever he plays the line seems to get better. When it comes to Brown he was just a rookie and only gave up 1 sack the entire year . That’s great for a 3rd rd pick and he’s only going to get better under the tutelage of Kromor. The future of this Oline is looking very bright all we need to do is fill in that RG position with a mauler and it’s on.

[klos63]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Feliciano yes but Williams logged the most time on the OL this line, he isn't horrible and he can play both inside and outside, I think he's too valuable to replace. Sure we can look to draft someone but I don't see him as the weakest OL to me that's the RG position. 

Williams could be a training camp casualty if we bring in competition. I don't think he's a automatic cut, but if a draft choice or less expensive FA beat him out, then he's gone. 

[No_Matter_What]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So you are GOOD with a 9M cap hit below AVG backup. 
 

you should care about the cap seeing the Bills have to and are currently NEGATIVE space 

How is he a below AVG backup? I am no expert, but in 2020 he played as an above average starter at RT, that is why Beane paid him 8M AAV. His play was worse in 2021 apparently, but do you really think he is below AVG backup? That doesn't make sense to me given the quality of OL play in the league.

 

Like I said I am not happy if backup OL takes 10M from cap space but since OL is a priority imo I'd save the money elsewhere (if they don't manage to keep him for less, which I hope they do). I am saying don't cut him unless you have better player then him.

 

And again, I have spent hours playing with our salary cap. We can save money elsewhere. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Bates was fantastic at the end of the season he allowed our run game to start using sweeps and counters because he can get to the 2nd level quickly. In my opinion Bates has already proven he can play LG as well as RT because whenever he plays the line seems to get better. When it comes to Brown he was just a rookie and only gave up 1 sack the entire year . That’s great for a 3rd rd pick and he’s only going to get better under the tutelage of Kromor. The future of this Oline is looking very bright all we need to do is fill in that RG position with a mauler and it’s on.

Bates was great compared to what we had there this season. He really wasn't anything groundbreaking. An improvement...for sure. However it's a spot that can still be upgraded. 

 

As far as Brown, yes a rookie that shows promise. Still, a spot where competition is deserved. The "one sack" given is a misleading thing to say. Guy had issues with penalties, was very average as a run blocker and would have given up more sacks if not for Allen's ability to escape. Great personality though.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Williams would be $3.6M dead cap hit. Bills can't afford that and the cost to replace him.  Besne got several guys to take pay cuts last year. If he can get Williams cao hit down from $9M to say $6M that would be ideal for another year. I would then bring back Bates, let Boetgger and Feliciano go. Sign one moderately expensive guard to compete with Bates and draft C/G in middle rounds.

My roster would be: 

Dawkins, FA, Morse, Williams, Brown

Bates, Ford, draft pick, Doyle

 

That group has quite a bit of position flexibility and a mix of young/old and cheap/expensive.

[st pete gogolak]

I don't know why so many people want to run Williams out of town.  He was terrific at RT in 2020 (anyone remember Jordan Mills' half decade at that position?), he was serviceable at RG in 2021 and better down the stretch when the whole OL performed better.  I think his value is that if Dawkins or Brown go down, he can step in at RT.  

 

After the JAX game, I was thinking OL Rounds #1 and #2 of the draft.  With the way the line played after inserting Bates, I'd be happy with Dawkins (who really turned it up down the stretch), Bates, Morse, Williams and Brown as opening OL next year.  Brown had a really rough 4th quarter against Ingram but I believe he has the potential to be All Pro in two years.  

 

Obviously, it depends on what we do in free agency but I see us taking a CB #1 unless we make a dramatic move in that direction in FA.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/16/brandon-beane-protecting-josh-allen-is-the-first-priority-for-bills-offense-this-offseason/

 

I totally agree with Beane on this, and I think it has multiple facets in my opinion:

1) Better interior line play. I would think this is most likely in the form of a free agent signing. I also think this means Mongo is done in Buffalo. need to open up a spot if you are bringing someone in.

2) Calling less designed QB runs. His biggest runs come when he is scrambling on broken pass plays. I love that part of his game as well as the occasional 3rd and reasonable distant runs. QB designed runs through the gut of the defense on first or second downs, while they can be effective, are too risky IMHO

3) Keep drilling in to Josh that he needs to get down before he takes or gives a shot unless it is a truly CRITICAL play.

 

Mongo costs too much to be the backup player he was at the end of last season.  It's notable that he didn't get his LG job back when Boettger went down, showing that he'd shifted on the depth chart.

 

However, unless there's a trade, Beane has no holes at the moment - two of the OL are FA (Boettger) or RFA (Bates). 

 

I think it's pretty clear we turned to designed runs at the end of last season because Josh Allen was by far our best RB.  In his end of season presser, Beane said that the run game was part of protecting Josh Allen.  I think your point 2) is what he meant.

Just now, st pete gogolak said:

I don't know why so many people want to run Williams out of town.  He was terrific at RT in 2020 (anyone remember Jordan Mills' half decade at that position?), he was serviceable at RG in 2021 and better down the stretch when the whole OL performed better.  I think his value is that if Dawkins or Brown go down, he can step in at RT.  

 

After the JAX game, I was thinking OL Rounds #1 and #2 of the draft.  With the way the line played after inserting Bates, I'd be happy with Dawkins (who really turned it up down the stretch), Bates, Morse, Williams and Brown as opening OL next year.  Brown had a really rough 4th quarter against Ingram but I believe he has the potential to be All Pro in two years.  

 

Obviously, it depends on what we do in free agency but I see us taking a CB #1 unless we make a dramatic move in that direction in FA.  

 

I agree re: Williams.  It's possible we renegotiate, but at a minimum, he enables our current backup OT strategy by being able to move out to OT and allow Brown to cross over to LT.  Doyle was no way ready for the swing tackle gig last season.

 

In his post-season, Beane said that the OL was "something to build on".  IMHO, that means we will draft IOL.

 

We'll see what the guys do under Kromer.

[BuffaloRebound]

‘Protect’ also means cutting the designed QB runs in half.  Josh had 2nd highest rushing attempts for QB behind Hurts. That can’t continue to happen. We are playing with fire and Beane knows it.  I’m fine with more designed QB runs in playoffs, but we are taking years off his career if this continues.  Our non-QB designed run game needs to improve going on 4 years now.  A good blocking Tight End (Gronk) and a better RB1 and a commitment from the OC would go a long way.  

[Andrew Son]

Keep an eye on FA G Austin Corbett.  33rd overall pick in 2018 for the Browns and then shipped to the Rams for a 5th round pick.  Turned his career around in LA and worked with Kromer there.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

There are other ways to protect Allen

1. Improved short passing game

2. Fourth quarter leads

3. Better running game

 

As for those that want less QB runs, it doesn't make sense to me. My gut tells me QBs are more likely injured in the pocket than when on a designed run. Allen's injury his rookie year was in the pocket. Guys hitting him in the head or rolling into his legs happens in the pocket. Hand injuries happen on throws usually not runs.

I favor letting Josh run. Its part of his game that makes him MVP caliber. I think he can be MVP just with his arm but I also don't fear him being asked to run the ball by both design and improvisation. 

[MAJBobby]

18 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

How is he a below AVG backup? I am no expert, but in 2020 he played as an above average starter at RT, that is why Beane paid him 8M AAV. His play was worse in 2021 apparently, but do you really think he is below AVG backup? That doesn't make sense to me given the quality of OL play in the league.

 

Like I said I am not happy if backup OL takes 10M from cap space but since OL is a priority imo I'd save the money elsewhere (if they don't manage to keep him for less, which I hope they do). I am saying don't cut him unless you have better player then him.

 

And again, I have spent hours playing with our salary cap. We can save money elsewhere. 

He is an over paid and below AVG RG yes. His play as RT in a contract year in 2020 was good. Allen hid a lot of that. But end of the day Williams can stay as a BU if he takes the paycut. If not he gone. 
 

4M cap hit is fine for Williams not almost 10M who had to move positions because he lost that RT job to a raw rookie. 

[wjag]

My guess is Feliciano and Ford are gone.  Morse retires.  Williams restructures and stays.  Line is then Dawkins, Bates, Draft Pick, Williams and Brown.

[MAJBobby]

20 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Williams would be $3.6M dead cap hit. Bills can't afford that and the cost to replace him.  Besne got several guys to take pay cuts last year. If he can get Williams cao hit down from $9M to say $6M that would be ideal for another year. I would then bring back Bates, let Boetgger and Feliciano go. Sign one moderately expensive guard to compete with Bates and draft C/G in middle rounds.

My roster would be: 

Dawkins, FA, Morse, Williams, Brown

Bates, Ford, draft pick, Doyle

 

That group has quite a bit of position flexibility and a mix of young/old and cheap/expensive.

And a 6M savings. So yes they can afford that dead cap 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

How many WRs or RBs take 3 yard passes to the house?  

I would settle for taking a 3 yard pass 20 yards.  Now that happens all the time except on the Bills.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, wjag said:

My guess is Feliciano and Ford are gone.  Morse retires.  Williams restructures and stays.  Line is then Dawkins, Bates, Draft Pick, Williams and Brown.

Morse isn’t retiring. Actually I see an extension for Morse (who was our second Best overall lineman last season). 
 

the concussions is the only concern with say a 5 year extension. I could see a 2 year extension that looks like a 5 year though. 

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

I would settle for taking a 3 yard pass 20 yards.  Now that happens all the time except on the Bills.

 

 

Except it does happen with the Bills. I can go point to a lot of them. A short pass with 16-17 yards in YAC.