Growing speculation that Stephen Ross might be forced to sell Dolphins(EDIT: Has succession plan in place to cede controlling interest to Bruce Beal if need be)

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Attempt is also a crime. 

 

True but beside the point of the post and response.  They aren't going to find bribe money.

[White Linen]

This should help black coaches.

[Chaos]

On 2/15/2022 at 7:33 AM, Rew said:

So the NFL can subpoena individuals to testify in their investigations?  Come on, it's the NFL not some underground society secretly taking over the world.

 

In order for such a subpoena to happen, Flores' case will have to go to trial (it won't) and his lawyers would have to make a case on the relevancy of such a witness.  The situation with Flores and Miami does not seem to have anything supporting a racial bias claim, unless there were racial undertones to the overall relationship that the witness could testify to. The actual offer to pay him per loss is more of a character framing on Ross and does little to support his suit.

Nothing in your post is accurate 

[Rew]

20 hours ago, Chaos said:

Nothing in your post is accurate 

The class action that Flores filed has been widely viewed by legal professionals to be a stretch.  Paraphrasing here since I don't have the same legal background, but at this point there doesn't seem to be enough of a "class" defined and offended in claims and that most of the claims seem to be very individual oriented.  Flores may have a chance of success with an individual case against the giants (still low likelihood due to the case riding on belichik's heresay).

 

However, it is quite possible that a totally different path regarding cheating and integrity of the game could uncover something specifically with MIA.  This could come out of the NFL's investigation (private, no subpoenas involved) or could come from a public suit that hasn't yet been filed regarding the NFL/Ross's ties to gambling and impacting game outcomes.

 

I don't believe that Flores' suit is going to get to the point of any public testimony being heard, especially relating to MIA.  It's possible that it gets far enough to force a settlement, but it seems unlikely that the class action suit will directly result in us knowing more about what happened in MIA.

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, Rew said:

The class action that Flores filed has been widely viewed by legal professionals to be a stretch.  Paraphrasing here since I don't have the same legal background, but at this point there doesn't seem to be enough of a "class" defined and offended in claims and that most of the claims seem to be very individual oriented.  Flores may have a chance of success with an individual case against the giants (still low likelihood due to the case riding on belichik's heresay).

 

However, it is quite possible that a totally different path regarding cheating and integrity of the game could uncover something specifically with MIA.  This could come out of the NFL's investigation (private, no subpoenas involved) or could come from a public suit that hasn't yet been filed regarding the NFL/Ross's ties to gambling and impacting game outcomes.

 

I don't believe that Flores' suit is going to get to the point of any public testimony being heard, especially relating to MIA.  It's possible that it gets far enough to force a settlement, but it seems unlikely that the class action suit will directly result in us knowing more about what happened in MIA.

 

How would Flores turning down alleged bonuses to "tank" affect any game outcomes?

[syhuang]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How would Flores turning down alleged bonuses to "tank" affect any game outcomes?

 

It doesn't matter whether any game outcome is indeed affected. As long as Ross does "attempt" to do so, he is in trouble.

 

 

CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, PART I-CRIMES, CHAPTER 11-BRIBERY, GRAFT, AND CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

 

§224. Bribery in sporting contests

(a) Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commerce to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge that the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contest, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(b) This section shall not be construed as indicating an intent on the part of Congress to occupy the field in which this section operates to the exclusion of a law of any State, territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the United States, and no law of any State, territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the United States, which would be valid in the absence of the section shall be declared invalid, and no local authorities shall be deprived of any jurisdiction over any offense over which they would have jurisdiction in the absence of this section.

(c) As used in this section-

(1) The term "scheme in commerce" means any scheme effectuated in whole or in part through the use in interstate or foreign commerce of any facility for transportation or communication;

(2) The term "sporting contest" means any contest in any sport, between individual contestants or teams of contestants (without regard to the amateur or professional status of the contestants therein), the occurrence of which is publicly announced before its occurrence;

(3) The term "person" means any individual and any partnership, corporation, association, or other entity.

[Mr. WEO]

53 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

It doesn't matter whether any game outcome is indeed affected. As long as Ross does "attempt" to do so, he is in trouble.

 

 

CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, PART I-CRIMES, CHAPTER 11-BRIBERY, GRAFT, AND CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

 

§224. Bribery in sporting contests

(a) Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commerce to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge that the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contest, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(b) This section shall not be construed as indicating an intent on the part of Congress to occupy the field in which this section operates to the exclusion of a law of any State, territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the United States, and no law of any State, territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the United States, which would be valid in the absence of the section shall be declared invalid, and no local authorities shall be deprived of any jurisdiction over any offense over which they would have jurisdiction in the absence of this section.

(c) As used in this section-

(1) The term "scheme in commerce" means any scheme effectuated in whole or in part through the use in interstate or foreign commerce of any facility for transportation or communication;

(2) The term "sporting contest" means any contest in any sport, between individual contestants or teams of contestants (without regard to the amateur or professional status of the contestants therein), the occurrence of which is publicly announced before its occurrence;

(3) The term "person" means any individual and any partnership, corporation, association, or other entity.

Ok but none of that answers my question to the poster…

[BuffaloBillyG]

23 hours ago, White Linen said:

This should help black coaches.

Actually....

 

It may. One possible reason cited for lack of diversity in coaching is the lack of diversity in ownership. Don't think it's an accident that Byron Allen was approached by the league about possibly purchasing the Broncos. Would not shock me at all to see teams with questionable ownership like the Washington Commanders and Miami Dolphins forced to sell and those at the forefront of new ownership to be...well pretty much anything except wealthy Caucasian men.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Actually....

 

It may. One possible reason cited for lack of diversity in coaching is the lack of diversity in ownership. Don't think it's an accident that Byron Allen was approached by the league about possibly purchasing the Broncos. Would not shock me at all to see teams with questionable ownership like the Washington Commanders and Miami Dolphins forced to sell and those at the forefront of new ownership to be...well pretty much anything except wealthy Caucasian men.

 

I am a HUGE fan of diversity. However, I also believe in the open market. I’m wondering how this might work, and what it might look like. What might happen behind the scenes that we will never know of? 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I am a HUGE fan of diversity. However, I also believe in the open market. I’m wondering how this might work, and what it might look like. What might happen behind the scenes that we will never know of? 

Oh, I am right there with ya. If you haven't seen any of the Byron Allen stuff it is something to see. Here's one article. Raises a few questions in my mind about possible fair trade.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/byron-allen-offer-denver-broncos-ownership-sale/

 

"Allen already has support inside the league. He shared that his decision to bid on the Broncos comes just a few years after Goodell and New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft encouraged him to buy a club."

 

Then you have this from Goodell's PC:

 

 

[syhuang]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Ok but none of that answers my question to the poster…

 

The post you questioned says "could come from a public suit that hasn't yet been filed regarding the NFL/Ross's ties to gambling and impacting game outcomes."

 

You questioned game outcomes aren't impacted since Flores turned down alleged bonuses.

 

I then replied to you to mention that a public suit doesn't need any game outcome being actually impacted as long as Ross indeed "attempted" to do so.

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Actually....

 

It may. One possible reason cited for lack of diversity in coaching is the lack of diversity in ownership. Don't think it's an accident that Byron Allen was approached by the league about possibly purchasing the Broncos. Would not shock me at all to see teams with questionable ownership like the Washington Commanders and Miami Dolphins forced to sell and those at the forefront of new ownership to be...well pretty much anything except wealthy Caucasian men.

 

Shad Khan is not a white male, but he still hires white coaches.

[Bill from NYC]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Shad Khan is not a white male, but he still hires white coaches.

Doesn't that make him white by proxy?

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Shad Khan is not a white male, but he still hires white coaches.

Oh, well if Shad Khan hasn't single-handedly solved the problem then we are all doomed. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, syhuang said:

 

The post you questioned says "could come from a public suit that hasn't yet been filed regarding the NFL/Ross's ties to gambling and impacting game outcomes."

 

You questioned game outcomes aren't impacted since Flores turned down alleged bonuses.

 

I then replied to you to mention that a public suit doesn't need any game outcome being actually impacted as long as Ross indeed "attempted" to do so.

 

 

Since it would be impossible for something that never happened ("games thrown") to impact the outcome of any game, there are no damages. Who would be the plaintiff is such a suit?  The "public", which suffered no harm or losses in such an alleged scheme? Your explanation doesn't make sense.

 

Maybe as a criminal matter (if allegations are true).  

[Rew]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How would Flores turning down alleged bonuses to "tank" affect any game outcomes?

Preface: My main point in original response was that we will be unlikely to ever hear testimony about what Ross did/did not do under the current class action.  I suggested that the means we will hear any details is if there is a criminal case.  I don't feel this is likely, but it is possible and the most probable way for us to know what happened.  It seems most likely that the NFL will aggressively investigate and punish Ross if necessary while publicly divulging as little information as possible.  If the current case isn't thrown out, the NFL will settle to keep any more information from leaking out and tarnishing the reputation of the game, making the below legal possibilities very unlikely.

 

Bribery of participants and officials of sporting contests is a federal offense if the contest involves crossing state lines (most NFL games do).  While Flores claims to have turned down the bribe, someone wanting to make a name for themself could decide it is worth investigating and seeing what other bribes Ross has offered that weren't turned down.  There is not really enough information public to convict on this right now, but it could be a witch-hunt based off of suspicion.

 

Depending on how invested Ross is in gambling and if any further bribe information comes out there is a path for racketeering.  This is the most far fetched and would require him to have a significantly higher interest in gambling that we are aware of or if he had conversations with people influential in the gambling arena about his intent to influence games. 

 

Both sports betting and RICO are interesting in that they don't require the bribe to be accepted, merely "attempting to carry into effect" constitutes a crime.

Just now, Rew said:

Preface: My main point in original response was that we will be unlikely to ever hear testimony about what Ross did/did not do under the current class action.  I suggested that the means we will hear any details is if there is a criminal case.  I don't feel this is likely, but it is possible and the most probable way for us to know what happened.  It seems most likely that the NFL will aggressively investigate and punish Ross if necessary while publicly divulging as little information as possible.  If the current case isn't thrown out, the NFL will settle to keep any more information from leaking out and tarnishing the reputation of the game, making the below legal possibilities very unlikely.

 

Bribery of participants and officials of sporting contests is a federal offense if the contest involves crossing state lines (most NFL games do).  While Flores claims to have turned down the bribe, someone wanting to make a name for themself could decide it is worth investigating and seeing what other bribes Ross has offered that weren't turned down.  There is not really enough information public to convict on this right now (unless there is an actual witness), but it could be a witch-hunt based off of suspicion.

 

Depending on how invested Ross is in gambling and if any further bribe information comes out there is a path for racketeering.  This is the most far fetched and would require him to have a significantly higher interest in gambling that we are aware of or if he had conversations with people influential in the gambling arena about his intent to influence games. 

 

Both sports betting and RICO are interesting in that they don't require the bribe to be accepted, merely "attempting to carry into effect" constitutes a crime.

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Rew said:

Preface: My main point in original response was that we will be unlikely to ever hear testimony about what Ross did/did not do under the current class action.  I suggested that the means we will hear any details is if there is a criminal case.  I don't feel this is likely, but it is possible and the most probable way for us to know what happened.  It seems most likely that the NFL will aggressively investigate and punish Ross if necessary while publicly divulging as little information as possible.  If the current case isn't thrown out, the NFL will settle to keep any more information from leaking out and tarnishing the reputation of the game, making the below legal possibilities very unlikely.

 

Bribery of participants and officials of sporting contests is a federal offense if the contest involves crossing state lines (most NFL games do).  While Flores claims to have turned down the bribe, someone wanting to make a name for themself could decide it is worth investigating and seeing what other bribes Ross has offered that weren't turned down.  There is not really enough information public to convict on this right now, but it could be a witch-hunt based off of suspicion.

 

Depending on how invested Ross is in gambling and if any further bribe information comes out there is a path for racketeering.  This is the most far fetched and would require him to have a significantly higher interest in gambling that we are aware of or if he had conversations with people influential in the gambling arena about his intent to influence games. 

 

Both sports betting and RICO are interesting in that they don't require the bribe to be accepted, merely "attempting to carry into effect" constitutes a crime.

 

I’m still not understanding how a rejected “bribe” of a coach would affect any games outcome.  Yiu are now referring to the criminal legal jeopardy Ross may be in for even making the offer, which may be true, but a different matter. 
 

none of that could possibly affect the outcome of any game. Maybe you are claiming he successfully bribed another coach? Players? Is this what you are referring to with “the investigation “, and what it will reveal?

[YoloinOhio]

I’m so out of the loop on this, I tried going back but Bradley Beal? The nba player?

[Bangarang]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m so out of the loop on this, I tried going back but Bradley Beal? The nba player?

Yes, they’re related. Can’t you tell?

 

The update is likely referring to Bruce Beal who is the Dolphins’ Vice Chairman/Partner

Edited February 18, 2022 by Bangarang

[syhuang]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Since it would be impossible for something that never happened ("games thrown") to impact the outcome of any game, there are no damages. Who would be the plaintiff is such a suit?  The "public", which suffered no harm or losses in such an alleged scheme? Your explanation doesn't make sense.

 

Maybe as a criminal matter (if allegations are true).  

 

Yes, public against Ross is a possiblity. Again, it doesn't need any game outcome was actually affected or any one actually suffered any loss as long as Ross indeed attempted it.  Read the following again especially the "attempt" keyword highlighted.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

§224. Bribery in sporting contests

(a) Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commerce to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge that the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contest, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(b) This section shall not be construed as indicating an intent on the part of Congress to occupy the field in which this section operates to the exclusion of a law of any State, territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the United States, and no law of any State, territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the United States, which would be valid in the absence of the section shall be declared invalid, and no local authorities shall be deprived of any jurisdiction over any offense over which they would have jurisdiction in the absence of this section.

(c) As used in this section-

(1) The term "scheme in commerce" means any scheme effectuated in whole or in part through the use in interstate or foreign commerce of any facility for transportation or communication;

(2) The term "sporting contest" means any contest in any sport, between individual contestants or teams of contestants (without regard to the amateur or professional status of the contestants therein), the occurrence of which is publicly announced before its occurrence;

(3) The term "person" means any individual and any partnership, corporation, association, or other entity.

Edited February 18, 2022 by syhuang