Growing speculation that Stephen Ross might be forced to sell Dolphins(EDIT: Has succession plan in place to cede controlling interest to Bruce Beal if need be)

[stevewin]

But what about Fergie and J-Lo?

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

His NFL career is already over.  That's a huge part of why his actions are so brave.

 

He's not looking to make a few bucks, he's looking to right some wrongs.

 

🙄

If Robert Smith ends up being the owner of the Broncos, I'd hire Flores to head my operations of football. Honorable, respectable, hard working. Those are some of the characteristics I'd want leading my company. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Highly unlikely anyone would or could “plead the fifth” in such a case.  And you’re just assuming witnesses will lie under oath…to protect an ass***e like Ross?

All it would take is one witness with some credibility saying that they heard Ross say it…or a text or email from Ross, and he’s cooked.

 

What people, specifically, do you think would have been witness to this conversation between Ross and Flores ?

 

From Flores's lawsuit it seems like a 1 on 1 conversation between Ross and Flores. The only other person who might've been involved would be the GM Grier. 

 

Do you think Ross would testify that he broke the law and asked Flores to throw games? Would Grier testify against his current boss and likely destroy his future NFL career ? I think Ross/Grier would be left with 3 options. 1-  plead the fifth, 2 - say they can't recall the specifics of the conversation, or 3- say that Flores is mis-remembering/interpreting the conversation 

 

Text/email would be a different story. It seems unlikely that Ross sent Flores anything in writing or Flores would've included it in the initial lawsuit. Then it comes down to whether or not a judge would grant a fishing expedition subpoena for Ross's emails/texts. I think that would be unlikely at this point (with no other corroborating witness/evidence other than what Flores says happened), but who knows. 

[1ManRaid]

6 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

Ross is a sleaze bag. (Know someone who was hired by him on a real estate project, totally unrelated to football.)

 

 

I'd be interested to hear at least vague details.

[bigduke6]

hold on,  rich people trying to game a system,  being sketchy,  skirt rules?    i dont believe it.

[aristocrat]

Man the NFL is having some owner issues. But if Kraft was never forced to sell I doubt Ross is forced to sell. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

If Robert Smith ends up being the owner of the Broncos, I'd hire Flores to head my operations of football. Honorable, respectable, hard working. Those are some of the characteristics I'd want leading my company. 

 

Ability to communicate, engage, and negotiate compromise might matter

[bigK14094]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

His NFL career is already over.  That's a huge part of why his actions are so brave.

 

He's not looking to make a few bucks, he's looking to right some wrongs.

 

🙄

He will take a cash settlement.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

5 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Something Fishy about this thread.

You did that on porpoise!

 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

What people, specifically, do you think would have been witness to this conversation between Ross and Flores ?

 

From Flores's lawsuit it seems like a 1 on 1 conversation between Ross and Flores. The only other person who might've been involved would be the GM Grier. 

 

Do you think Ross would testify that he broke the law and asked Flores to throw games? Would Grier testify against his current boss and likely destroy his future NFL career ? I think Ross/Grier would be left with 3 options. 1-  plead the fifth, 2 - say they can't recall the specifics of the conversation, or 3- say that Flores is mis-remembering/interpreting the conversation 

 

Text/email would be a different story. It seems unlikely that Ross sent Flores anything in writing or Flores would've included it in the initial lawsuit. Then it comes down to whether or not a judge would grant a fishing expedition subpoena for Ross's emails/texts. I think that would be unlikely at this point (with no other corroborating witness/evidence other than what Flores says happened), but who knows. 

I have no idea who, if anyone, might have witnessed such a conversation.  Nor do I know how reckless or stupid Ross is, so I don't know how discreet he would have been or whether he would have been foolish enough to put something incriminating in an email or a text.  (It's not clear to me that offering Flores a "bonus" to lose games would constitute a crime, BTW, although I'm sure it could get him bounced from the league.)  I have no doubt that Ross would deny giving Flores any such instruction, but so what?  And I can't predict what Grier might say under oath. If he witnessed such a conversation, I'd like to think he would not commit perjury to protect a lowlife like Ross. I don't believe Grief testifying truthfully about what he might have witnessed would "destroy his future NFL career".  I think his horrible draft record could, though.

 

Finally, the bolded part is just wrong.  In litigation, parties are given a great deal of leeway to seek documents that are even potentially relevant, and Ross's emails and texts would absolutely be discoverable in a case like this.  Such a request would hardly be considered a "fishing expedition", regardless of whether there are "other corroborating witnesses".       

Edited February 15, 2022 by mannc

[Southern Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

His NFL career is already over.  That's a huge part of why his actions are so brave.

 

He's not looking to make a few bucks, he's looking to right some wrongs.

 

🙄

I wouldn’t exactly call his actions brave. Apparently he was willing to go along with it until he got fired. He didn’t say anything when it happened. He’s not looking to make a few bucks? I think you better look at how much he’s suing for. 

[TheFunPolice]

When did tanking become a federal crime? Fraud? What fraud? Were you somehow promised in writing that your team was doing all it could to win?

 

In that case, any team that rests its starters is breaking the law. It's a Pandora's box. 

 

And now fans are supposedly outraged? LOL Please. Fans WANT their teams to lose and get the #1 pick when they are awful. Now we're going to pretend that's not true? 

 

Just watch YouTube videos of when the Jets won to cost themselves the #1 pick. Fans were going crazy because they won and missed out on Trevuh. 

 

Weren't Sabres fans all into the tank, making it a whole event? You actually had fans cheering like crazy when the Coyotes beat the Sabres in Buffalo to keep them ahead for the best chances in that draft. Of course, we know what happened. They got the #2 pick and it was a disaster. Maybe it's Karma. 

 

I get "not coming out and saying it" but the idea of tanking (or just not going all out to win) is pretty well known and talked about often. One could argue that it's actually playing the long game to WIN BIG.

 

If the next Peyton Manning is sitting there as a reward, and your franchise just needs to lose 1 more game to GUARANTEE the chance to draft him #1 overall, while the next guy is a tackle or something, it cannot be denied that losing that game:

 

1) HELPS your team get what it needs to have a chance to contend for 15+ years

2) Makes your fans happy

Edited February 15, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Coffeesforclosers]

It's not that tanking is a crime, it's that you really shouldn't offer your coach bribes to lose while you're invested in a SportsBook startup.  That's called point shaving, or match fixing, or insider trading.

[TheFunPolice]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

When people are being paid to throw a game I'm pretty sure it is a crime. 

 

Being paid to throw a game... that's tough to pin down exactly. 

 

Look at Flores' case: how could HE throw a game? His players are not going to not try to win. His assistant coaches are not going to sabotage their careers. 

 

Pretty much the only thing a HC could do to try to lose would be to jerk his QB around by taking in and out of games, constantly churning through assistant coaches, doing bizarre things like hiring 2 OC to be "co offensive coordinators," alienating everyone in the building, not even communicating with his coaching staff anymore, and doing everything he could to kill the confidence of his QB...

 

Oh wait 

Edited February 15, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

You did that on porpoise!

 

 

Lets keep this up...it's fintastic!

[TheFunPolice]

9 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

It's not that tanking is a crime, it's that you really shouldn't offer your coach bribes to lose while you're invested in a SportsBook startup.  That's called point shaving, or match fixing, or insider trading.

 

But how could a HC lose a game on purpose? 

 

I listed some possible ways in my response to another poster below, but that's not Flores... 

 

Unless.... 

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Being paid to throw a game... that's tough to pin down exactly. 

 

Look at Flores' case: how could HE throw a game? His players are not going to not try to win. His assistant coaches are not going to sabotage their careers. 

 

Pretty much the only thing a HC could do to try to lose would be to jerk his QB around by taking in and out of games, constantly churning through assistant coaches, doing bizarre things like hiring 2 OC to be "co offensive coordinators," alienating everyone in the building, not even communicating with his coaching staff anymore, and doing everything he could to kill the confidence of his QB...

 

Oh wait 

 

Actually, my post is probably wrong and I deleted it because the statute may also involve gambling on the outcome of the game after paying someone to throw it.

 

I still say if what Flores said is true (big if) the NFL absolutely has to pull the team from him. It's one thing to make off and in-season player moves to influence the outcome of a season. It's totally another to actually make in-game decisions that negatively influence what is happening on the field.

[TheFunPolice]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Actually, my post is probably wrong and I deleted it because the statute may also involve gambling on the outcome of the game after paying someone to throw it.

 

I still say if what Flores said is true (big if) the NFL absolutely has to pull the team from him. It's one thing to make off and in-season player moves to influence the outcome of a season. It's totally another to actually make in-game decisions that negatively influence what is happening on the field.

 

I wonder though... Everything I posted was things that Flores did that many people said made no sense at the time. 

 

But maybe it was his way of trying to make that (losing) happen? He certainly didn't stand up and say something at the time. 

 

A HC "trying to lose" would actually be pretty hard to do, especially not making it too obvious. Like I said, the assistant coaches making peanuts who are trying to work their way up the ladder are not going to go along with it, nor are the players. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

It's not that tanking is a crime, it's that you really shouldn't offer your coach bribes to lose while you're invested in a SportsBook startup.  That's called point shaving, or match fixing, or insider trading.

 

It would only be a crime if Ross directly bet on games. Investing in a sports gambling company while trying to tank your team is not a conflict of interest. If it was, being a team owner would itself be a conflict of interest.

[Orlando Buffalo]

23 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

But how could a HC lose a game on purpose? 

 

I listed some possible ways in my response to another poster below, but that's not Flores... 

 

Unless.... 

A head coach could "lose intentionally" simply by playing for the future. In 2018 Josh Allen was not the best QB Buffalo could start to win at that moment but he was the one we all went with because we thought he could become what he is now.