Aaron Rogers in the Playoffs

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Top 5 is Allen, Allen, Allen, Allen, and Allen.

[BillMafia716ix]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ok a friend of mine (a huge Rogers fan) and I are debating on how great Rogers is. He states he is top 5 all time.  I say he is maybe top 10 and that his choking in playoff games isn’t helping him. 
 

he points to his playoff stats 5894 yards 22 TD and 13 INT in 21 games.

 

I say that’s nice but just look at the last two years. In 2020 he had 3rd and Goal from the 5 and could have easily run it in and he throws it into double coverage. This year he barely gets 10 points on the 49ers, and worse fails to get even one first down deep in his own end which lead to a punt block.

 

I say the lack of being clutch keeps him out of the top 5. 

Aaron Rodgers is an overrated front running drama queen stat stuffer . Can’t win from behind, can’t win big games on the road. Every year they finish with one of the best records in the NFC and every year it’s a excuse of why the Packers can’t get over hump.

Edited February 11, 2022 by BillMafia716ix

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Greg S said:

My top 5 would be

 

1. Brady - the GOAT

2.Manning

3.Marino

4.Montana

5.Brees

 

Honorable mention to Young, Elway, Moon, Kelly, Bradshaw

 

For me:

 

brady

montana

unitas

manning

otto graham (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrahOt00.htm)

[Stank_Nasty]

23 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

For me:

 

brady

montana

unitas

manning

otto graham (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrahOt00.htm)

flip flop graham for elway and thats my list as well. Unitas never gets enough love and his numbers are absurd for the era.

 

.... as for rodgers. before the last 2 years i argued he was a shoe in for top 5 all time with a friend of mine that happens to be a brady truther..... after the last 2 years IMO he's been relegated to top ten IMO

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

flip flop graham for elway and thats my list as well. Unitas never gets enough love and his numbers are absurd for the era.

 

.... as for rodgers. before the last 2 years i argued he was a shoe in for top 5 all time with a friend of mine that happens to be a brady truther..... after the last 2 years IMO he's been relegated to top ten IMO

Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you...but I would be intrested in hearing the logic behind a guy having back to back MVP seasons and that actually dropping him in your list.

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you...but I would be intrested in hearing the logic behind a guy having back to back MVP seasons and that actually dropping him in your list.

Because in my personal opinion, and i think in a lot of other peoples, raising your game in the postseason and postseason success is a requirement when we are comparing best of all time. Not the end all be all, but definitely a large factor. Another superbowl or 2 woulda greatly helped his cause IMO. not even wins. just some appearances.

 

 

Game on the line. 1:30 left. Elway or rodgers. Who you taking? For me its Elway and it aint even close. And i think stuff like that matters. Now tack on the fact that these guys all have generationally great production in their respective era's, and i'll take the guys that keep going to title games.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Stank_Nasty

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Because in my personal opinion, and i think in a lot of other peoples, raising your game in the postseason and postseason success is a requirement when we are comparing best of all time. Not the end all be all, but definitely a large factor. Another superbowl or 2 woulda greatly helped his cause IMO. not even wins. just some appearances.

I see that logic and agree. However, the other side of the argument..this is who he's been by and large his career in the postseason. Odd timing to finally drop him down after the last 2 seasons he's had is all.

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I see that logic and agree. However, the other side of the argument..this is who he's been by and large his career in the postseason. Odd timing to finally drop him down after the last 2 seasons he's had is all.

 

 

choking away #1 seeds can drop a guy IMO. thats just me..... and honestly, a couple of years ago i may have been projecting a bit thinking he'd be in one or 2 more. thats on me.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Stank_Nasty

[Dopey]

10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Because in my personal opinion, and i think in a lot of other peoples, raising your game in the postseason and postseason success is a requirement when we are comparing best of all time. Not the end all be all, but definitely a large factor. Another superbowl or 2 woulda greatly helped his cause IMO. not even wins. just some appearances.

 

 

Game on the line. 1:30 left. Elway or rodgers. Who you taking? For me its Elway and it aint even close. And i think stuff like that matters. Now tack on the fact that these guys all have generationally great production in their respective era's, and i'll take the guys that keep going to title games.

Before reading your post, I was going to reply with Elway being better. I would take Elway 10 out of 10 times. If Elway played in today's era, WOW! I don't think anyone playing today has a stronger arm than Elway had, even Josh. Smart QB and he had WHEELS. The guy could run. and he was TOUGH, Jim Kelly tough. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

9 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Because in my personal opinion, and i think in a lot of other peoples, raising your game in the postseason and postseason success is a requirement when we are comparing best of all time. Not the end all be all, but definitely a large factor. Another superbowl or 2 woulda greatly helped his cause IMO. not even wins. just some appearances.

 

 

Game on the line. 1:30 left. Elway or rodgers. Who you taking? For me its Elway and it aint even close. And i think stuff like that matters. Now tack on the fact that these guys all have generationally great production in their respective era's, and i'll take the guys that keep going to title games.

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/400927749

 

Aaron Rodgers led his team to TWO lead-taking FGs in the final 1:30 in a playoff game against the Cowboys only a few years ago. 

 

Including this ridiculous play on a 3rd and 20 with 12 seconds left: 

 

Elway needed a ridiculously stacked team to win his back to back superbowls, and he had a straight up terrible SB against the Packers. 

 

 

[34-78-83]

A slight spin on it...

 

Best 5 QB's I've seen play live in person:

 

1- Brady

2- Montana

3- Marino

4- Young

5- Allen   😁

 

[LeviF]

How many top ten defenses has Rodgers had?

 

I'll give you a hint: Brady has had more since turning 42 than Rodgers has had in his entire career.

 

Everyone wants to blame defense when the Bills lose to the Chiefs (and I'm not saying that's wrong) but when you consider the points allowed by the Packers during the bulk of Rodgers' playoff losses this becomes a very simple equation.

[Stank_Nasty]

13 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/400927749

 

Aaron Rodgers led his team to TWO lead-taking FGs in the final 1:30 in a playoff game against the Cowboys only a few years ago. 

 

Including this ridiculous play on a 3rd and 20 with 12 seconds left: 

 

Elway needed a ridiculously stacked team to win his back to back superbowls, and he had a straight up terrible SB against the Packers. 

 

 

i mean we can all cherry pick games and plays. Or we could look at the bodies of work. One has a rep for being one of the most clutch qb's of all time.... The other doesnt.

 

Elway went to five freaking superbowls man. FIVE... and again, i'm not saying Aaron had to win as many superbowls as Elway. But how about get to more than one?

 

I"m not losin my mind over somebody putting Rodgers in their top 5. I just think its highly debatable and you absolutely have to put postseason accomplishments into the equation when talking about all time lists. That seems very fair IMO.

15 minutes ago, LeviF said:

How many top ten defenses has Rodgers had?

 

I'll give you a hint: Brady has had more since turning 42 than Rodgers has had in his entire career.

 

Everyone wants to blame defense when the Bills lose to the Chiefs (and I'm not saying that's wrong) but when you consider the points allowed by the Packers during the bulk of Rodgers' playoff losses this becomes a very simple equation.

how many did his defesne give up in their playoff loss this year? fair to mention it, right?

[LeviF]

19 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 

how many did his defesne give up in their playoff loss this year? fair to mention it, right?

 

Sure it's fair. It's also fair to say that Rodgers tends not to deal with in-game adversity well.

 

He's lost a total of ten playoff games, and in six of those the Packers gave up 30+ points. In two others they lost in OT. 

 

Hardware absolutely needs to be considered when talking about GOATs or what have you, but so do other circumstances. Elway gets this benefit all the time with far worse counting and advanced stats.

 

As far as passers go, Rodgers and Marino are neck and neck for the most talented, best seen in the league. And they have sad careers hardware-wise.

 

Brady is the GOAT, I don't think even the biggest Brady truthers can deny it at this point.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

i mean we can all cherry pick games and plays. Or we could look at the bodies of work. One has a rep for being one of the most clutch qb's of all time.... The other doesnt.

 

Elway went to five freaking superbowls man. FIVE... and again, i'm not saying Aaron had to win as many superbowls as Elway. But how about get to more than one?

 

I"m not losin my mind over somebody putting Rodgers in their top 5. I just think its highly debatable and you absolutely have to put postseason accomplishments into the equation when talking about all time lists. That seems very fair IMO.

how many did his defesne give up in their playoff loss this year? fair to mention it, right?

 

I think you're only looking at your pre-conceived notion of these guys reputations as opposed to what they actually did.  

 

How about this game for Rodgers

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201001100crd.htm

 

Probably the best losing playoff performance by a QB in NFL history (at least until a certain game a few weeks ago). 

 

The NFL is a TEAM sport. That's why I find it ironic that Elway is considered clutch for winning a SB going  12/ 22 for 123 yards 0 TD 1 INT and Rodgers is a choker for fumbling in OT after going 28 /42 for 423 yards 4 TD 1 INT in a loss after his DEF gave up 45 points in regulation. 

 

It's part of the reason I dislike the playoff record / 'chips argument. 

 

Rodgers has some disappointing playoff losses for sure. His career to this point reminds me of P. Manning with the Colts. Without their QB those teams would've been competing for #1 overall pick, and not playoff games. 

[Stank_Nasty]

12 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I think you're only looking at your pre-conceived notion of these guys reputations as opposed to what they actually did.  

 

How about this game for Rodgers

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201001100crd.htm

 

Probably the best losing playoff performance by a QB in NFL history (at least until a certain game a few weeks ago). 

 

The NFL is a TEAM sport. That's why I find it ironic that Elway is considered clutch for winning a SB going  12/ 22 for 123 yards 0 TD 1 INT and Rodgers is a choker for fumbling in OT after going 28 /42 for 423 yards 4 TD 1 INT in a loss after his DEF gave up 45 points in regulation. 

 

It's part of the reason I dislike the playoff record / 'chips argument. 

 

Rodgers has some disappointing playoff losses for sure. His career to this point reminds me of P. Manning with the Colts. Without their QB those teams would've been competing for #1 overall pick, and not playoff games. 

manning made 3 titles in his prime and another on coat tails. So again i disagree. Win a freaking conference title man. Sometimes i think people underrate what top 5 means. Its HALLOWED ground man. Winning the biggest games matters. It needs to matter... heck its the only reason a guy like Aikman is even in the HOF. 

 

And when did i say Elway was clutch for that superbowl? Elway is considered clutch because of his whole career and body of work. which, again, includes 5 SUPERBOWLS. i feel like your whole aim is slanting narratives. you conveniently leave out Elways 2nd title where he went for 330 yds and a 100 qb rating. And again leave out the fact he won his own conference 5 teams.... you just keep harping elways subpar superbowl win. its odd.

 

I'm done with this for now though. you get into that 4,5,6 range and its all up for big time debate. But IMO Rodgers lack of postseason success needs to be a factor when you are talking about the 5 best qb's of ALL TIME.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Stank_Nasty

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Top 5. You forgot that pesky Super Bowl win and 3 MVPs. 

I think the All 22 from last years game showed it was not an easy run into the end zone. There was a defender there.

and I’m not a Rodgers fan 

 

The thing is they settled for a FG because they had like 4th and goal from the 6 or 7 yard line. If he would have ran he may not have scored but they would have at least gotten 4th and goal from the 1 or 2 yard line. History may have been different then if they go for it and win the game instead of settling for the FG.

 

The playoff totals that Rodgers has put up in 21 games is well below is regular season averages. He does have one Super Bowl ring but it still feels like he is basically this generations version of Dan Marino. Are Marino and Rodgers really that much different? Both really only had there playoff success in their first two years of starting. 

 

I'd be fine with anyone wanting to put Marino in the top 5 still over Rodgers given the different eras they played in. 

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’ve only really been watching nfl for about 30 years so that’s my lens. I would have a tough time not putting Rodgers top 5 in that era.

 

30 years is composed of two if not three different football eras. 1991-1998 football was still RB dominant. Defenders tee'd off on both QB's and WR's. Things started to change around 2000-2010 to favor more passing and better QB play. Then since around 2010 and beyond they continued to change with more focus on QB play and protections. 

[Success]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Ok a friend of mine (a huge Rogers fan) and I are debating on how great Rogers is. He states he is top 5 all time.  I say he is maybe top 10 and that his choking in playoff games isn’t helping him. 
 

he points to his playoff stats 5894 yards 22 TD and 13 INT in 21 games.

 

I say that’s nice but just look at the last two years. In 2020 he had 3rd and Goal from the 5 and could have easily run it in and he throws it into double coverage. This year he barely gets 10 points on the 49ers, and worse fails to get even one first down deep in his own end which lead to a punt block.

 

I say the lack of being clutch keeps him out of the top 5. 

 

It's a team game.  I reject when QB's are labeled "chokers" because their TEAMS consistently fall short.  Rogers, like Manning, had almost nothing to do w/ some of his early playoff exits.

 

His last game was the 1st time that I felt like he didn't show up in the playoffs.  He had a bad game.  The play last year was just one he missed - I wouldn't call it "lacking clutch."  I've seen AR pull out enough games in the 4th to know he can be very clutch.

 

[GoBills808]

Rodgers is the most underrated QB in NFL history and it isn’t close

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

manning made 3 titles in his prime and another on coat tails. So again i disagree. Win a freaking conference title man. Sometimes i think people underrate what top 5 means. Its HALLOWED ground man. Winning matters. It needs to matter...

 

And when did i say Elway was clutch for that superbowl? Elway is considered clutch because of his whole career and body of work. which, again, includes 5 SUPERBOWLS. i feel like your whole aim is slanting narratives. you conveniently leave out Elways 2nd title where he went for 330 yds and a 100 qb rating. And again leave out the fact he won his own conference 5 teams.... you just keep harping elways subpar superbowl win. its odd.

 

Rodgers

Overall playoffs 11-9

Conference Championship 1-4

Superbowl 1-0 with 1 SB MVP

 

Elway

Overall playoff record 14-7

Conference Championship 5-1

Superbowl 2-3 with 1 SB MVP 

 

Elway (prior to his final 2 seasons with a stacked team)

Overall playoffs 7-7

Conference Championship 3-1

Superbowl 0-3 (1 bad and 2 dreadful games)

 

Honestly I don't know if either guy should be considered clutch in the playoffs. Elway's 5-1 conference title record is impressive, but he followed those up with 4 pretty bad SB performances. Rodgers only made the SB once, but in that one appearance he had a fantastic game. Elway may have the slightly better playoff career than Rodgers, but the better regular season career is Rodgers by far (and Rodgers isn't over yet). 

 

Elway had The Drive. Rodgers had the divisional game vs Cowboys that I linked earlier. 

 

Saying that Elway is far and away the more clutch player is a combination of viewing Elway through rose colored glasses, and discounting Rodgers based on recency bias.