Bills are on the clock at #25

[LyndonvilleBill]

7 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

It’s true about our depth at DT, that’s what makes these discussions a little hard before FA. Obviously anything can happen in FA, but I feel like there is a strong chance Harrison Phillips is resigned, leading to my comment about IOL. If he isn’t resigned, DT would be a glaring need. 

My opinion is, plan "A" should be Phillips, Ankou and Draftee. Plan "B" should be Star, Ankou and draftee. Draftee and Ankou battle it out for position. But I really believe they will get a deal done with Phillips, so I am sticking with Plan A.😉. 

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, TPS said:

No doubt he looked out of shape early which could've been covid-related, who knows.  My response was related to drafting an OT in R1, though @GunnerBill clarified for me the point was in relation to drafting interior O vs OTs in R1 in general , and I agree (though I'd support taking Linderbaum if he was there).  

To Dawkins, I think he's a top 10 LT at the very least, and I think the Bills will be just fine with him for the duration of his contract (he'll be 30 at the end of it). There are more important needs to address than OT in this draft.  My personal preference is the other skill positions--CB, Edge, and WR, depending on who drops. 

 

 

 

Yeah it would have to be a transcendent talent for me or @GunnerBill to spend a first rounder on an interior player.    Linderbaum ain't that.   He's very undersized,  which might not prevent him from being a star in some systems........but it will always be a limiting factor that his team has to scheme or support with additional personnel to prevent from becoming a liability.

 

As for CB and WR being more pressing needs than OT..........not really.     The Bills were good at CB in 2020 even without White.....who will almost certainly return to be better than his replacement Levi Wallace, in 2021.   Only did the Chiefs really have their way with them at the end.......but they incinerated the All Pro White in the 2020 AFCCG as well.    CB is a want.   Stefon Diggs is a better WR than Dawkins is a LT.    Davis is probably a better WR2 right now than Brown is a RT(he sucks in pass pro).   So WR is also more of a want than a need compared to OT.

 

I get it though.........the moment the OL starts to play better people want to quickly wipe that off the needs list because it is a lot more fun to add playmakers.........we saw that last offseason when many assumed Williams and Feliciano returning meant that the OL was going to at least stay the same if not improve due to the continuity.    What happened was FAR from either.    They got much worse.........at mid-season they were arguably one of the league's worst..........statistically worse than Cinci in pass pro even.........and finally at the end they had to change the offense and turn Allen into a 10+ carry per game player to overcome the systemic issues with their OL.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah it would have to be a transcendent talent for me or @GunnerBill to spend a first rounder on an interior player.    Linderbaum ain't that.   He's very undersized,  which might not prevent him from being a star in some systems........but it will always be a limiting factor that his team has to scheme or support with additional personnel to prevent from becoming a liability.

 

As for CB and WR being more pressing needs than OT..........not really.     The Bills were good at CB in 2020 even without White.....who will almost certainly return to be better than his replacement Levi Wallace, in 2021.   Only did the Chiefs really have their way with them at the end.......but they incinerated the All Pro White in the 2020 AFCCG as well.    CB is a want.   Stefon Diggs is a better WR than Dawkins is a LT.    Davis is probably a better WR2 right now than Brown is a RT(he sucks in pass pro).   So WR is also more of a want than a need compared to OT.

 

I get it though.........the moment the OL starts to play better people want to quickly wipe that off the needs list because it is a lot more fun to add playmakers.........we saw that last offseason when many assumed Williams and Feliciano returning meant that the OL was going to at least stay the same if not improve due to the continuity.    What happened was FAR from either.    They got much worse.........at mid-season they were arguably one of the league's worst..........statistically worse than Cinci in pass pro even.........and finally at the end they had to change the offense and turn Allen into a 10+ carry per game player to overcome the systemic issues with their OL.

Beane agrees with you. and said as much with directly quoting you Badol.
fix the oline
I want both the run game and the protection to take some big steps going into the season.
Not sure that comes drafting at 25 whatsoever.
 BPA is a reasonable PoV for now
 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:02 AM, purple haze said:

I chose Williams too.  Also would be good with Chris Olave.  WR is a sneaky need and Allen’s weapons should always be stacked.

 

I voted Williams not because he adds a speed dimension downfield (which he does), but specifically because he can take a short crossing pattern or slant to the house from anywhere on the field.  Diggs and Davis can go deep.  We need that YAC guy who can grab us a quick 6.

Voted Williams too for this reason. Allen has to do everything himself. Need that speed element and that YAC guy. I also LOVE the idea of McCreary/Mcduffie in round 1 and then Wandale Robinson in round 2. Dude is a stud and would be great in this offense. Kid is tough as hell too and Josh would love him

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:35 PM, GunnerBill said:

I voted for Andrew Booth, Cornerback, Clemson. Surprised he has so few votes. He is a top 5 player in the class for me. Not I will caveat that with the fact that he wouldn't be a top 5 player in a lot of other classes. I have a top 15 grade on him, but there just are not the real high end talents at the top of this draft class, so a guy like Booth who would normally be a mid first rounder will end up going early IMO. If he is somehow still there at #25 I'll sprint from London to Vegas to hand the card in and make it in time.... that's how much I like this kid. He was built to play in our defense. Reminds me so much of Tre White. 

 

My top 3 wish list is:

- Andrew Booth

- Trevor Penning

- Chris Olave

 

In that order. But I personally doubt any of them are there. Olave has the best chance. 

Understand Booth and Olave but why Penning? He can’t kick inside can he? We have Hawkins and Brown. Who is moving inside?

[ghostwriter]

THREE players that NOBODY is talking about! And ALL of them are GREAT returners too! 

 

Anyways, I thought that Buffalo was kind of lacking in the return department/STs last year, so I took the liberty of providing you with three of the very best return men in the entire draft and not only that, they may even have the ability to start at their natural positions too.

 

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

1.) Romeo Doubs, WR, Nevada

• At 6’2 205lbs he has ideal size for an outside receiver. He is built very similarly to Gabe Davis although he is much faster. 

• Although he doesn’t have elite speed, he is plenty fast enough to break free on go routes and deep balls.

• He’s strong enough to beat press coverage and often outmuscles defenders on contested catches.

• Caught 80 balls for 1,109 yards last year for 11 TDs.

• Averaged 14.2ypc on punt returns for 170 yards in 2021. 
 

Draft consensus

PFN: #65

PFF: #97

NFL Mock Draft Database: #107

 

 

 

2.) Marcus Jones, CB, Troy/Houston

- At 5’8 he’s undersized, but what most folks don’t realize is that he’s a ballhawk and a violent hitter. He tallied 5 INTs last year and is more than willing to lay the lumber down in run support.

- He’s more of a nickel corner at the next level, but definitely has the ability to be a starter. 
- He ran 2 TDs back as a KR and 2 TDs as a PR in 2021. Maybe not Devin Hester but close. 
- Averaged 34 yards as a KR.

- Averaged 14.4 yards as a PR.

 

Draft consensus

PFN: #174

PFF: #93

NFL Mock Draft Database: #98

 

 

 

3.) Velus Jones, WR, USC/Tennessee

- At 6’0 this man has great size for his athletic ability. I see him as a slot receiver in the same breath as Cole Beasley or Isaiah McKenzie but probably more towards Cole Beasley.

- Has a solid frame, should be able to hold up relatively well in terms of taking hits.

- Ran for 628 yards as a KR last year and AVG 27.3 yards. 
- Put up 272 yards as a PR AVG 15.1 yards.

- Caught 62 passes for 807 yards and 7 TDs.

Draft consensus

PFN: #387

PFF: #185

NFL Mock Draft Database: #190

 

 

 

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
 

Anyways, let me know what you guys think. I’ve been sick all day, but I was bored and had nothing to do. I’ll admit that I’m not a GM or some guru, I’m just a passionate fan. Anyways I hope you guys enjoy and God bless you.

 

🙏

 

 

 

[ghostwriter]

43.

Romeo Doubs

WR Nevada

 

57.

Phidarian Mathis

DT Alabama

 

58.

Channing Tindall

LB Georgia

 

71.

Alontae Taylor

CB Tennessee

 

99.

Marcus Jones

CB Houston

 

184.

Velus Jones Jr.

WR Tennessee

 

229.

Matt Araiza

P San Diego State

 

244.

JW Jones

DT Central Arkansas

 

2023 DET 2nd

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

THREE players that NOBODY is talking about! And ALL of them are GREAT returners too! 

 

Anyways, I thought that Buffalo was kind of lacking in the return department/STs last year, so I took the liberty of providing you with three of the very best return men in the entire draft and not only that, they may even have the ability to start at their natural positions too.

 

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

1.) Romeo Doubs, WR, Nevada

• At 6’2 205lbs he has ideal size for an outside receiver. He is built very similarly to Gabe Davis although he is much faster. 

• Although he doesn’t have elite speed, he is plenty fast enough to break free on go routes and deep balls.

• He’s strong enough to beat press coverage and often outmuscles defenders on contested catches.

• Caught 80 balls for 1,109 yards last year for 11 TDs.

• Averaged 14.2ypc on punt returns for 170 yards in 2021. 
 

Draft consensus

PFN: #65

PFF: #97

NFL Mock Draft Database: #107

 

 

 

2.) Marcus Jones, CB, Troy/Houston

- At 5’8 he’s undersized, but what most folks don’t realize is that he’s a ballhawk and a violent hitter. He tallied 5 INTs last year and is more than willing to lay the lumber down in run support.

- He’s more of a nickel corner at the next level, but definitely has the ability to be a starter. 
- He ran 2 TDs back as a KR and 2 TDs as a PR in 2021. Maybe not Devin Hester but close. 
- Averaged 34 yards as a KR.

- Averaged 14.4 yards as a PR.

 

Draft consensus

PFN: #174

PFF: #93

NFL Mock Draft Database: #98

 

 

 

3.) Velus Jones, WR, USC/Tennessee

- At 6’0 this man has great size for his athletic ability. I see him as a slot receiver in the same breath as Cole Beasley or Isaiah McKenzie but probably more towards Cole Beasley.

- Has a solid frame, should be able to hold up relatively well in terms of taking hits.

- Ran for 628 yards as a KR last year and AVG 27.3 yards. 
- Put up 272 yards as a PR AVG 15.1 yards.

- Caught 62 passes for 807 yards and 7 TDs.

Draft consensus

PFN: #387

PFF: #185

NFL Mock Draft Database: #190

 

 

 

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
 

Anyways, let me know what you guys think. I’ve been sick all day, but I was bored and had nothing to do. I’ll admit that I’m not a GM or some guru, I’m just a passionate fan. Anyways I hope you guys enjoy and God bless you.

 

🙏

 

 

 

 

 

They are all pretty well known, day 3 prospects.............people aren't talking about them because they don't project to be studs.

 

Jones in particular has been around forever.........dude's like 30 now........he's like the Van Wilder of receivers who really can only return kicks.

[ghostwriter]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They are all pretty well known, day 3 prospects.............people aren't talking about them because they don't project to be studs.

 

Jones in particular has been around forever.........dude's like 30 now........he's like the Van Wilder of receivers who really can only return kicks.

25 isn’t exactly “old”. We have a window to win now. We drafted Tremaine Edmunds when he was what, 20?

 

If you can get 2-3 quality years out of a 4th, 5th or 6th round pick, you’re doing good as far as I’m concerned.

 

While I may never proclaim myself to have the same expertise as someone like Sean McD or Brandon Beane, I highly doubt most fans know who these players are.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

Understand Booth and Olave but why Penning? He can’t kick inside can he? We have Hawkins and Brown. Who is moving inside?

 

I'd see how camp goes but I'd likely end up with Penning at left tackle and Dion inside at guard. 

 

Think it is a pipe dream now anyway. By being the best player in Mobile Penning has solidified himself as a top 15 pick IMO. His absolute floor is the Steelers at #20. 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd see how camp goes but I'd likely end up with Penning at left tackle and Dion inside at guard. 

 

Think it is a pipe dream now anyway. By being the best player in Mobile Penning has solidified himself as a top 15 pick IMO. His absolute floor is the Steelers at #20. 

If they are good with moving Dion inside and Dion is cool with it, then yep let’s do it. Offensive line was a disaster all year long, Josh just manages to cover up so many warts. I need another playmaker though if we don’t take Jameson Williams or get a good FA pickup since WR is a need too. I’m glad to see others like Wandale Robinson also. I’m biased as a UK fan, but he’s special and he’s tough. Watching him every week, he’s the soul of that UK team. Put on the Iowa tape, especially the last quarter. Everyone knew he was getting the ball. He just makes plays. 

[TPS]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah it would have to be a transcendent talent for me or @GunnerBill to spend a first rounder on an interior player.    Linderbaum ain't that.   He's very undersized,  which might not prevent him from being a star in some systems........but it will always be a limiting factor that his team has to scheme or support with additional personnel to prevent from becoming a liability.

 

As for CB and WR being more pressing needs than OT..........not really.     The Bills were good at CB in 2020 even without White.....who will almost certainly return to be better than his replacement Levi Wallace, in 2021.   Only did the Chiefs really have their way with them at the end.......but they incinerated the All Pro White in the 2020 AFCCG as well.    CB is a want.   Stefon Diggs is a better WR than Dawkins is a LT.    Davis is probably a better WR2 right now than Brown is a RT(he sucks in pass pro).   So WR is also more of a want than a need compared to OT.

 

I get it though.........the moment the OL starts to play better people want to quickly wipe that off the needs list because it is a lot more fun to add playmakers.........we saw that last offseason when many assumed Williams and Feliciano returning meant that the OL was going to at least stay the same if not improve due to the continuity.    What happened was FAR from either.    They got much worse.........at mid-season they were arguably one of the league's worst..........statistically worse than Cinci in pass pro even.........and finally at the end they had to change the offense and turn Allen into a 10+ carry per game player to overcome the systemic issues with their OL.

Seems you're assuming Dawkins' play in the latter part of the year is not representative, whereas I would say it is.  I would also argue that Brown will make a significant jump in year 2--the guy barely played 2 years of OT at NIU (previously TE) and didn't play at all in his draft year.  You're also assuming the Bills can draft an LT at 25 who will be better than the pro-bowler Dawkins. I don't believe that will be the case.  They do need to upgrade RG, but we agree that shouldn't be done in R1. 

Regarding your last point, I think a lot of people were worried about the OL, especially Williams and Feliciano, after last year's AFCCGI, and I think it's clear the OL was much better in pass pro against KC in this year's playoff game (4 vs 13 pressures).

 

As for WR, given the pass-focused O, the Bills absolutely need a third WR to replace Sanders.  It is clearly the case that any of the currently rated R1 WRs are a significant improvement over Gentry or Hodgins. I would say the same about CB, anyone picked in the first 3 rounds will most likely be better than Jackson or Lewis, the current list of CB2s (though, I agree, CB is more a want than need). 

 

Of course, perceived needs will change significantly as they go through FA, since Beane likes to make sure he's not in a position of needing to draft a specific position.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, TPS said:

Seems you're assuming Dawkins' play in the latter part of the year is not representative, whereas I would say it is.  I would also argue that Brown will make a significant jump in year 2--the guy barely played 2 years of OT at NIU (previously TE) and didn't play at all in his draft year.  You're also assuming the Bills can draft an LT at 25 who will be better than the pro-bowler Dawkins. I don't believe that will be the case.  They do need to upgrade RG, but we agree that shouldn't be done in R1. 

Regarding your last point, I think a lot of people were worried about the OL, especially Williams and Feliciano, after last year's AFCCGI, and I think it's clear the OL was much better in pass pro against KC in this year's playoff game (4 vs 13 pressures).

 

As for WR, given the pass-focused O, the Bills absolutely need a third WR to replace Sanders.  It is clearly the case that any of the currently rated R1 WRs are a significant improvement over Gentry or Hodgins. I would say the same about CB, anyone picked in the first 3 rounds will most likely be better than Jackson or Lewis, the current list of CB2s (though, I agree, CB is more a want than need). 

 

Of course, perceived needs will change significantly as they go through FA, since Beane likes to make sure he's not in a position of needing to draft a specific position.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rationale that Gunner and I are talking about is getting a good LT prospect and then deciding whether he or Dawkins is better in camp and moving one of them to guard.   I'm assuming Dawkins would be the LT for at least next season.........but that's an every down player either way.

 

Not all LT's can transition inside........but that is mostly evident in footwork and hand traits on tape that indicate if the player plays well in tight spaces.    From what I've seen........including some actual guard play in place of Incognito as a rookie.......Dawkins is most certainly one of those guys.     He's BEEN a fringy Pro Bowl alternate LT in what might be his prime 2019-current........but I think he might be an All Pro at LG. 

 

Then if your LT misses time you have another LT talent on hand for the most important position on the line..........rather than moving Brown and plugging in Doyle and making both tackle positions considerably worse(Doyle is REALLY raw and I love Brown's potential but he isn't even good in pass pro at RT yet and he wasn't a LT in college either).

 

I don't expect a top LT prospect to be left at #25 but I didn't think Rousseau would fall to #30 at this point in the draft process last year.    It's still a distinct possibility because there are a good number of them.

 

As for the other positions............I'm all about getting a tremendously fast RAC guy to add to this offense.....OR..........signing Gronk and drafting another TE in mid-rounds and going 12 personnel and just using Diggs and Davis as the two WR's in those sets.    

 

So as much as I value adding a WR........that 3rd WR might not be an every down player..............and of course there are more options there in UFA than there will be at tackle.

[Paul Costa]

Dawkins is never going to move inside to guard. This has been talked about in the past here it will never happen. He will never move over to Right Tackle either. The insanity needs to stop ✋🏾. Dawkins & Brown will be our tackles for the foreseeable future. I hope Morse wants to continue to play because he’s damn good too. Ricky Bates had a nice end of the year and I like the idea of keeping him in the starting lineup at the salary projected. I also like the idea of cutting both Mongo & Darryl Williams and signing a starting RG in FA. And drafting a guy like Zion Williams with pick 25 if a top flight corner or DE  doesn’t fall into our laps. Word has it Stingley is falling like a stone. I’d take him or Sauce Gardner or the Auburn CB with 25, if not shore up the line. 

[Brand J]

Where’d this stuff about CB being more a want than a need originate? On the current roster we have Tre White coming off an ACL, Dane Jackson, and who else? 

[BADOLBILZ]

19 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Where’d this stuff about CB being more a want than a need originate? On the current roster we have Tre White coming off an ACL, Dane Jackson, and who else? 

 

Taron Johnson?   They literally just signed him to an extension late in the season.

 

So that's starters at all 3 primary positions.............in a defense where 4th round, 6th round and UDFA players have proven to be effective enough starters to finish #1 in the league in yards allowed.

 

I'd love to get a great,  scheme versatile outside CB to replace Jackson and Wallace..........but when Josh Allen was reduced to a Tyrod Taylor-esque 6.8 yards per pass attempt in 2021 and the Bengals porous pass blocking looked considerably better on paper than that of the Bills OL(126 combined sacks/pressures versus Cinci's 100)..........you damn well better know that the priority is improving the pass blocking.

 

Job 1 of any NFL organization..........put your QB in best position to succeed.   

[Donuts and Doritos]

1. CB - If Levi Wallace prices out of Buffalo & we don't get a good FA replacement CB is an immediate need.

 

2. DT- Phillips is a priority resign that should get done & take a little pressure off DT (which still needs depth).

 

3. IOL - (had this #1 before Bates started). Bates is another priority resign who should be back. They'll want to restructure Williams. If either of those things falls through or Morse retires this moves to #1 need. But even if it doesn't we will need a guard center piece to draft & develop behind Morse & our guards.

 

4. Slot WR - sounds like Beane wants Beasley back (given end of season comments) though will want to restructure. They could go a FA route, of not this feels like a round 3 or later draft piece to develop behind Beasley (like they did w/ Davis who was a round 2).

 

5. TE - depth player behind Knox. FA or later draft pick.

 

6. RB - I don't think they value this position as high so this seems like we other a FA or later round pick. 

[Brand J]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Taron Johnson?   They literally just signed him to an extension late in the season.

 

So that's starters at all 3 primary positions.............in a defense where 4th round, 6th round and UDFA players have proven to be effective enough starters to finish #1 in the league in yards allowed.

 

I'd love to get a great,  scheme versatile outside CB to replace Jackson and Wallace..........but when Josh Allen was reduced to a Tyrod Taylor-esque 6.8 yards per pass attempt in 2021 and the Bengals porous pass blocking looked considerably better on paper than that of the Bills OL(126 combined sacks/pressures versus Cinci's 100)..........you damn well better know that the priority is improving the pass blocking.

 

Job 1 of any NFL organization..........put your QB in best position to succeed.   

Taron slipped my mind but I was actually referring to boundary corners. They’re extremely thin there and if history is an indicator, it’s going to take Tre more than a year to round back into form. Wallace… I saw projections of him at $9M/yr, no thanks. CB, or should I say boundary CB, is most definitely a need at this point.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Taron slipped my mind but I was actually referring to boundary corners. They’re extremely thin there and if history is an indicator, it’s going to take Tre more than a year to round back into form. Wallace… I saw projections of him at $9M/yr, no thanks. CB, or should I say boundary CB, is most definitely a need at this point.

 

The Bills went into 2021 with a competition between what Bills fans considered a low-end starter Levi Wallace(who couldn't get a bite in UFA) and a long shot Dane Jackson and came out of that with a top pass defense even after losing White.

 

CB has proven to be the one position that this defensive staff can consistently coach/scheme up............so wouldn't be at all surprising if the long developed Cam Lewis and perhaps the most physically talented non-Tre White in the CB room, Nick McCloud........stepped into Jackson's role as productive players.

 

I do expect White to be back and play at least at 2021 Levi's level early in the season while he gradually works his way back.

[Brand J]

24 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Bills went into 2021 with a competition between what Bills fans considered a low-end starter Levi Wallace(who couldn't get a bite in UFA) and a long shot Dane Jackson and came out of that with a top pass defense even after losing White.

 

CB has proven to be the one position that this defensive staff can consistently coach/scheme up............so wouldn't be at all surprising if the long developed Cam Lewis and perhaps the most physically talented non-Tre White in the CB room, Nick McCloud........stepped into Jackson's role as productive players.

 

I do expect White to be back and play at least at 2021 Levi's level early in the season while he gradually works his way back.

We expect to be a Super Bowl contender next season and that means the likelihood of facing one of these young superstar QBs in the playoffs is all but a guarantee. I’m not pinning my hopes on Cam Lewis or Nick McCloud to step in and play at a level that negates having a highly drafted corner. We can hope that’s the case, but can’t bank on it and ignore the position.

Edited February 21, 2022 by JayBaller10