How bad is it for Lesile Frazier?

[Logic]

1 hour ago, finn said:

I feel sorry for him. He'll live with "13 seconds" for the rest of his life. It's like Scott Norwood, only missing from the 28 yard line instead of the 48. 

 

I wonder if the team has lost confidence in him. 

 

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

If they have they really have a funny way of showing it.

 

I get if they were waiting to see if there was a chance of him landing a HC job so the problem could fix itself but now is the time to move on and make a change if it's going to happen and McDermott is serious about evolving and taking the next step (and beating the Chiefs in a game that actually matters).

Recency bias and fan over-reaction at their finest.

The Bills have had a top 10 defense the majority of the time that Frazier has been a coach here.

This past season, they were ranked 1st in pass defense, 1st in points allowed, and 1st in yards allowed. The defense was a big reason that they even won the division and made the playoffs to begin with. 

The "13 seconds failure" was admittedly terrible. By all means, let's let it outweigh five years of great work and high defensive rankings. 

I would love -- absolutely LOVE -- to know who Bills fans think is going to come to One Bills Drive and coach this roster to a BETTER defensive finish than the one they had last year.

 

[FilthyBeast]

Just now, Logic said:

 

Recency bias and fan over-reaction at their finest.

The Bills have had a top 10 defense the majority of the time that Frazier has been a coach here.

This past season, they were ranked 1st in pass defense, 1st in points allowed, and 1st in yards allowed. The defense was a big reason that they even won the division and made the playoffs to begin with. 

The "13 seconds failure" was admittedly terrible. By all means, let's let it outweigh five years of great work and high defensive rankings. 

I would love -- absolutely LOVE -- to know who Bills fans think is going to come to One Bills Drive and coach this roster to a BETTER defensive finish than the one they had last year.

 

 

Again it's not just about the '13 seconds'. It's about the 4+ quarters before that in which this defense was raped by the Chiefs and moved the ball at will for 500+ yards. And as much as everyone keeps pointing to the fluke victory in October which in hindsight is as hollow as it gets, you have to look at the complete body of work during Frazier's time here and that's one that rarely has played well or held up against above average/elite QB's in this league. Just lots of stat padding in between against rookies and backup caliber QB's and this year was the epitome of that.

 

Like I've said for some time, it's no longer about regular season success (i.e. top 5 defensive rankings) and just getting to the playoffs. It's about getting to SB's and winning them now and still think a lot of fans don't understand this or want to admit that this current regime may have reached their ceiling and not capable of going any further. Hopefully the Pegula's do and have already sat down with Beane and McDermott and told them they need to deliver in 2022 or big changes are imminent.

[Logic]

28 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Again it's not just about the '13 seconds'. It's about the 4+ quarters before that in which this defense was raped by the Chiefs and moved the ball at will for 500+ yards. And as much as everyone keeps pointing to the fluke victory in October which in hindsight is as hollow as it gets, you have to look at the complete body of work during Frazier's time here and that's one that rarely has played well or held up against above average/elite QB's in this league. Just lots of stat padding in between against rookies and backup caliber QB's and this year was the epitome of that.

 

Like I've said for some time, it's no longer about regular season success (i.e. top 5 defensive rankings) and just getting to the playoffs. It's about getting to SB's and winning them now and still think a lot of fans don't understand this or want to admit that this current regime may have reached their ceiling and not capable of going any further. Hopefully the Pegula's do and have already sat down with Beane and McDermott and told them they need to deliver in 2022 or big changes are imminent.

Okay then. A simple question: Who do you propose as a replacement for Leslie Frazier?

[BuffaloBobs]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

Okay then. A simple question: Who do you propose as a replacement for Leslie Frazier?

 

Thank you for living up to your user name and hitting the nail on the head. There isn't a coach in the league that is going to get more out of the group of guys we have than our current coaching staff.

 

I would add for @FilthyBeast and the other critics: name a better defense than ours last year, even tougher, name a better defense in the NFL since Leslie Frazier took over as our defensive coordinator.

Edited February 9, 2022 by BuffaloBobs

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Okay then. A simple question: Who do you propose as a replacement for Leslie Frazier?

 

There's plenty out there including Vic Fangio and Jim Schartz, I'd take either of him over Frazier and wouldn't think twice. Would have hired Martindale too but Daboll scooped him up already.

 

Just think a different perspective is needed if this team is going to take the next step.

[phypon]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBobs said:

 

Thank you for living up to your user name and hitting the nail on the head. There isn't a coach in the league that is going to get more out of the group of guys we have than our current coaching staff.

 

I would add for @FilthyBeast and the other critics: name a better defense than ours last year, even tougher, name a better defense in the NFL since Leslie Frazier took over as our defensive coordinator.

The Bengals....had to do it, lol!  

[BuffaloBobs]

1 minute ago, phypon said:

The Bengals....had to do it, lol!  

 

They played a better playoff game against the Chiefs than we did, that's for sure.

 

But they also gave up 41 points to the Browns, 34 points to the Jets, and 41 points to the Chargers this season.

 

If the negative on the Bills as stated by the critics is stat padding against bad/average teams, what happens when you loose to them and give up 30+ points to the Jets and 40+ points to the Browns? 

[phypon]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBobs said:

 

They played a better playoff game against the Chiefs than we did, that's for sure.

 

But they also gave up 41 points to the Browns, 34 points to the Jets, and 41 points to the Chargers this season.

 

If the negative on the Bills as stated by the critics is stat padding against bad/average teams, what happens when you loose to them and give up 30+ points to the Jets and 40+ points to the Browns? 

I'm really not trying to get into anything here.  But (yes, there is a but), this kind of proves why those stats don't really mean anything.  You play your best ball at the end of the season.  If you can't come through when it matters, what good is being the #1 defense.  I'd rather be the worst defense all season but be the #1 defense in the playoffs and SB.  I think that's really the point most posters are trying to convey when it comes to the #1 rated defense stuff.

[Governor]

6 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Again it's not just about the '13 seconds'. It's about the 4+ quarters before that in which this defense was raped by the Chiefs and moved the ball at will for 500+ yards. And as much as everyone keeps pointing to the fluke victory in October which in hindsight is as hollow as it gets, you have to look at the complete body of work during Frazier's time here and that's one that rarely has played well or held up against above average/elite QB's in this league. Just lots of stat padding in between against rookies and backup caliber QB's and this year was the epitome of that.

 

Like I've said for some time, it's no longer about regular season success (i.e. top 5 defensive rankings) and just getting to the playoffs. It's about getting to SB's and winning them now and still think a lot of fans don't understand this or want to admit that this current regime may have reached their ceiling and not capable of going any further. Hopefully the Pegula's do and have already sat down with Beane and McDermott and told them they need to deliver in 2022 or big changes are imminent.

You’re exactly right. I expect firings at the end of next season. McD should fire Frazier right now so we don’t have to do it in week 5 next season.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, finn said:

I feel sorry for him. He'll live with "13 seconds" for the rest of his life. It's like Scott Norwood, only missing from the 28 yard line instead of the 48. 

 

I wonder if the team has lost confidence in him. 

I can tolerate someone getting physically or athletically beat in a loss. But mental errors are historically inexcusable under these circumstances. Both Frazier & McD knew KC had their timeouts. After we handed them the ball on braindead play #1, we had to know they weren't running pass patterns on the outside. So what do we do? Drop everyone 20 yards and guard the sidelines. Absolutely stupidity........

[finn]

I can see the team's loyalty triggered, as in, "Hey, we all have screwed up, we got his back," that's one thing. But if they think, "If he had just got out of the way and let us do our job, we'd in the Super Bowl," then they might not be happy this offseason. I suspect it will be the former. 

 

Wow, what a screw up. Rush four when Mahomes can't hold the ball, guard the sidelines despite KC having three timeouts, prevent the TD when they need only a FG... That performance must have raised eyebrows throughout the league. 

[Mr. WEO]

58 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I can tolerate someone getting physically or athletically beat in a loss. But mental errors are historically inexcusable under these circumstances. Both Frazier & McD knew KC had their timeouts. After we handed them the ball on braindead play #1, we had to know they weren't running pass patterns on the outside. So what do we do? Drop everyone 20 yards and guard the sidelines. Absolutely stupidity........

 

hey give him a few more years to figure this out!

[JaCrispy]

12 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Cost the Bills not only a potential SB berth, but two 3rd round picks.  🤬

Right now, Frazier and McMeathead are in my “doghouse”...only way out, for them, is a super bowl win...👍

[Sierra Foothills]

I wouldn't worry about Frazier. I'm pretty sure McNair will hire him next year after firing Lovie this year. Frazier's essentially gonna be the 3rd leg of the triple crown.

The Culley-Lovie-Frazier carousel will become the running inside joke for the NFL... their little gleeful poke at the Rooney Rule.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

There's plenty out there including Vic Fangio and Jim Schartz, I'd take either of him over Frazier and wouldn't think twice. Would have hired Martindale too but Daboll scooped him up already.

 

Just think a different perspective is needed if this team is going to take the next step.

 

For one it is Jim Schwartz . 2 you would call to fire any of them week 9 or 10. (when they struggle here and there) . Many people are forgetting Frazier called a great game regular season vs Chiefs. When White comes back esp with Chiefs the D would look lots better. They had to change it up a bit when he left. Need better cb for sure.

 

Martindale would mean change the whole defense up for his scheme to work. Plus would not want Rob Ryan back.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

It's about getting to SB's and winning them now and still think a lot of fans don't understand this or want to admit that this current regime may have reached their ceiling and not capable of going any further. Hopefully the Pegula's do and have already sat down with Beane and McDermott and told them they need to deliver in 2022 or big changes are imminent.

 

I do understand it, believe me I do. I just think you are wrong that this regime has reached its ceiling. It is a fundamental disagreement on that point. The had a tough loss in the playoffs. And they didn't coach that game very well at the end. That is on them. But I don't think that means they have reached their ceiling. 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:13 AM, TheProcess said:

I know, write?!

What does the process mean?  Because people like you were saying trade Jason Peters he sucks.  And I am sorry the Bill’s took Allen over your hero Rosen.  You probably had to throw away your Josh Rosen pajamas. 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

For one it is Jim Schwartz . 2 you would call to fire any of them week 9 or 10. (when they struggle here and there) . Many people are forgetting Frazier called a great game regular season vs Chiefs. When White comes back esp with Chiefs the D would look lots better. They had to change it up a bit when he left. Need better cb for sure.

 

Martindale would mean change the whole defense up for his scheme to work. Plus would not want Rob Ryan back.

 

Martindale in 4 games vs Mahomes as a DC - averages 32.25 points given up and is 1-3

Frazier in 4 games vs Mahomes as a DC - averages 31.5 points given up and is 1-3

 

I mean if the issue is we can't get past Kansas City and our style of D is a bad matchup for them (I see some truth to that but I don't know that any D is a great matchup for Mahomes when he is on) then what in the world possesses someone to think Martindale would be better? You know what it is? Fans love blitzing. Martindale blitzes. Too many folks play too much Madden. 

[BobbyC81]

Maybe, like Farwell, Frazier will find another DC job.  😉

[BuffaloBobs]

17 hours ago, phypon said:

I'm really not trying to get into anything here.  But (yes, there is a but), this kind of proves why those stats don't really mean anything.  You play your best ball at the end of the season.  If you can't come through when it matters, what good is being the #1 defense.  I'd rather be the worst defense all season but be the #1 defense in the playoffs and SB.  I think that's really the point most posters are trying to convey when it comes to the #1 rated defense stuff.

 

It just doesn't make sense though.

 

Everybody struggles with the Chiefs. They're a great team and it's going to be a struggle to contain them, especially in big games. In 11 playoff games they've been held to less than 30 points twice.

 

Saying that the solution to our mixed record in a very small sample against the Chiefs is to take a proven statistical strength and weaken it in the hopes of changing the result against the Chiefs is silly. It's like losing a few hands of blackjack with 20 and saying you know what, I'm going to hit 20 because I can't beat the dealer when they have 21. The odds of weakening our position is just so much higher than the odds that one of these retread coaches improves what is already a strength.

Edited February 10, 2022 by BuffaloBobs