How bad is it for Lesile Frazier?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, T master said:

I had wondered why Lovey hadn't gotten another HC job after leaving the Bears i thought he was a decent coach & would have been good for some team .

 

 

He did. In Tampa. And went 8-24.

[Livinginthepast]

20 minutes ago, benderbender said:

If they won the Chiefs game and completely laid an egg in the AFCCG, Frazier still would have gotten a HC job.

 

13 seconds was the high school equivalent of farting in gym class and then running for class president. He was only going to get pity votes.

Fart? I would say it was more like a shart. A fart you might be able escape unscathed from responsibility but that 13 seconds debacle was a shart for sure. Much more visible and a nasty situation hard to escape!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

When Lovie Smith, gets a head coaching job over Frazier.  Is Lovie really better than Frazier?  Love’s defense was horrible last year except when he played the Jets and Lovie’s tenure in Illinois was something you would not rights books about.

 I know the Kanas City game  was a disaster and it would be hard to sell a fan base on that game but even I think Frazier is better then Lovie Smith. 

 

Lack of interest can come from either side. 

 

Correction: the last 13 seconds of the KC game was a disaster, but the fact that the game got to that point was not.

 

7 minutes ago, T master said:

I had wondered why Lovey hadn't gotten another HC job after leaving the Bears i thought he was a decent coach & would have been good for some team .

 

 

Tampa

[SectionC3]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Frazier made it to the final two for the Texans job last year. 

And they didn’t bring him back this time. It’s bizarre.  (Unless there’s something that we don’t know about Frazier that happened in the interim, but that seems unlikely.)  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did. In Tampa. And went 8-24.

 

But to be fair - his first year there was obviously a "tank" year with no QB - er, I mean, with Josh McCown as QB

 

Then they drafted Jameis Winston and in his first year, the team looked like they'd turned it around. 

 

It kind of looked to me as though the Buccaneers Freddy Kitchened him.

 

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

And they didn’t bring him back this time. It’s bizarre.  (Unless there’s something that we don’t know about Frazier that happened in the interim, but that seems unlikely.)  

 

Maybe Frazier said "no thank you" after the way the Texans kicked Culley to the curb after a single year.

[out]

If I were Frazier I would be tired of running the Mcd defense. I would gracefully leave and coach where I was running my own show.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But to be fair - his first year there was obviously a "tank" year with no QB - er, I mean, with Josh McCown as QB

 

Then they drafted Jameis Winston and in his first year, the team looked like they'd turned it around. 

 

It kind of looked to me as though the Buccaneers Freddy Kitchened him.

 

Meh. I was not sold even the Jameis year that he had that team headed the right way. 

[ALF]

We don't know if McD is over ruling Frazier on play calling, like 13 seconds.

[RyanC883]

23 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

He definitely didn't make any adjustments at 13 seconds. No one is hiring him after that debacle. We're stuck with him and this confusing relationship between him & McD.

 

this is what I don't understand.  Frazier is at best, an average DC.  NO ONE wants him for HC.  Why are we keeping him?  The 13 seconds of non-adjustments and bend and don't break D was exactly how the team played all year.  Yeah, we rocked it against poor QBs.  Against good QBs, nope.  

 

 

[stuvian]

Lovie is already comfortable when Easterby holds his hand during Kumbaya in the locker room. This was a deal breaker for Culley I am told (sarc)

[ndirish1978]

Lovie Smith got hired because by all appearances the Texans fired Culley unfairly to bring in McCown, who I don't believe has coached in any capacity, as their HC. Flores' lawsuit came out and the clownshow leadership over there actually had a cogent thought and said "I don't think we can pull off this obviously nonsensical move this year without becoming the poster team for hiring discrimination" so they pivoted and acted like Lovie had been their double secret probation candidate all along.

[TheFunPolice]

Lovie is familiar with the management, team, and players having already been in Houston. He did lead Chicago to a Super Bowl as HC with a terrible QB. He's respected by players and he's a calming, even keel presence. 

 

Houston is a disaster, and they could have done much worse. 

 

Lovie Smith's record is clearly better than either Frazier or Flores. And it isn't even close. He has more wins, more years of head coaching experience, more playoff wins, and more Super Bowl and conference title appearances than Frazier and Flores combined. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[T master]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He did. In Tampa. And went 8-24.

 

Can you say BRAIN FART !! Now i remember Thanks ...

[MrEpsYtown]

Texans clearly wanted to hire McCown. They waited too long and put themselves in a position that it would have looked absolutely horrible for them and the NFL if they went down that path. So they pivoted. 

 

Smith has the better HC resume, including a super bowl and I think that is where he beats out Leslie. 

[BuffaloBobs]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

this is what I don't understand.  Frazier is at best, an average DC.  NO ONE wants him for HC.  Why are we keeping him?  The 13 seconds of non-adjustments and bend and don't break D was exactly how the team played all year.  Yeah, we rocked it against poor QBs.  Against good QBs, nope.  

 

 

 

This team had the best defense in the league entering the playoffs with the top passing defense and top scoring defense. It is laughable that you would replace your coordinator after that type of season long performance. This without White for the final five games of the season, with Mario Addison leading the team in sacks and a hobbled Harry Phillips anchoring the run defense.  I get frustration after the loss but moving on from Fraiser would be classic throwing of the baby out with the bathwater.

 

As for the Texans, as others have said, I think it's obvious that the top tier candidates are not interested in going into that environment. They probably looked at the options and realized any difference between a Lovie Smith (the inarguably more experienced Head Coach) and someone like a Leslie Fraiser or Brian Flores two similarly defensive minded coaches were negligible enough to be offset by their comfort with the candidate already on the team.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBobs said:

 

This team had the best defense in the league entering the playoffs with the top passing defense and top scoring defense. It is laughable that you would replace your coordinator after that type of season long performance. This without White for the final five games of the season, with Mario Addison leading the team in sacks and a hobbled Harry Phillips anchoring the run defense.  I get frustration after the loss but moving on from Fraiser would be classic throwing of the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

THIS. 

[Brand J]

I think if a coordinator can say “I called the number one defense in football and did it without a single pro bowler” he should be expedited to the nearest HC vacancy.

I put much more stock in All Pro votes than Pro Bowl nominations, but I really think that 13 seconds cost him an opportunity. It was talked about everywhere and canceled many of the great things Frazier did this year. With that said, it feels like his defense fails against competent offenses more often than not and I’d prefer a more aggressive play caller. Don’t see McD moving on from him though, so he’s ours at least for another year. Also don’t see us having access to any blue chip prospects that could help his scheme. Expect more of the same next year - great against bottom feeder or one-sided offenses, middling against good QBs or balanced attacks.

[Might Rather]

I think Frazier knows he is in a better spot here. If he wants a HC gig he'd be better off waiting for one with at least a chance for success. 

[Livinginthepast]

You mean Brian Flores didnt get it? I thought for sure Stephen Ross would put a good word in for him!

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Maybe Frazier said "no thank you" after the way the Texans kicked Culley to the curb after a single year.

Could be.  But it’s hard to imagine someone who wants to be a HC turning down such a job at his age.