How bad is it for Lesile Frazier?

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don't understand how someone can say the Bills coaches stink. I was killing time responding but I'm done now. No point.

 

It is impossible for some people to look at anything in nuanced ways. Everything is black and white: It is either all good or all bad - depending entirely on nothing more than how they feel at the moment...

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It is impossible for some people to look at anything in nuanced ways. Everything is black and white: It is either all good or all bad - depending entirely on nothing more than how they feel at the moment...

I'm not seeing a plan either. It's all about firing but there's no plan either. I'm all for a good conversation but what are the options.

 

One guy said anyone. Lol. Rob Ryan will play aggressive all out blitz style. Let's go hire him, he's available. 🙄

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So could they have mixed some stuff up more against the Chiefs? Definitely. But their plan was to stay patient. That was the plan week 5, it worked and until the final 2 minutes it didn't do badly in the playoff game. You are right to say an obvious thing to do vs KC was to get more aggressive with the corners at the line. That is a personnel issue. They don't trust Wallace and Jackson to do that and recover if they get beat. 

I understand about W & J, but to have them as far from the line as they were, was for me a bit underwhelming as a coaching move, oh well, water under the bridge at this point. 
 

 I will say I am quite optimistic about our new OC, QC & OLC, I do think they will work together more seamlessly than what I perceived with who they replaced, a likely better rounded offense, not that I want to see a lot more of the run game, but more functional in that aspect of the offense, executed more smoothly as I would put it.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Bferra13 said:

One has already been a head coach with a 21 and 32 record and been fired from that gig whereas the other has never been afforded that opportunity. Frazier is vanilla as it gets be it HC or DC. He'd only be a placemat like Lovie is with the Texans, plus he's older. Bieniemy deserves a shot to show what he can do. Apples to oranges.

 

It may be apples to oranges, but they are both still suffering from the same poor soil or drought or whatever.  So that they have in common.

 

My point is there's plenty of coaches around who've got 2nd and even 3rd chances.  Frazier hasn't, and not saying he deserves it, but do think being in McD's shadow doesn't help him any as  it also doesn't help Bienemy   As long as he has Reid and Mahomes standing next to him, they'll be questions about how much is really him.   Admittedly Daboll has some of the same question marks due to Allen, but the one thing that helped Daboll is the experts all predicted Allen to fail so Daboll has got some of the credit for Allens success.  Bienemy doesn't get much of any of that credit for Mahomes.

 

If Bienemy wants a shot his best thing may be to get away from KC.

[benderbender]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That's the tough part. It doesn't make any sense. I think fans deserve an explanation as to what happened or what was supposed to happen.

 

If we have to stew on this for a year, the very least we’re owed is an explanation.

 

And McD robbed us of that by, best case scenario, trying to protect Frazier and our ST coach who was rumored on his way out anyway. 

 

I honestly feel for Frazier. Without 13, the blemishes on his record as DC were minor. A few blowouts over 3 seasons were easily overlooked. Not to mention the organization he played for was hiring and a reunion seemed a sure thing. 

[billsfan1959]

35 minutes ago, benderbender said:

If we have to stew on this for a year, the very least we’re owed is an explanation.

 

And McD robbed us of that by, best case scenario, trying to protect Frazier and our ST coach who was rumored on his way out anyway. 

 

I honestly feel for Frazier. Without 13, the blemishes on his record as DC were minor. A few blowouts over 3 seasons were easily overlooked. Not to mention the organization he played for was hiring and a reunion seemed a sure thing. 

 

He doesn't owe you an explanation. He owes it to his players and coaches to handle it in a dignified way, learn from it, and be better.

[Governor]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It's uncanny how your avatar so perfectly matches your posts.

 

Fascinating. Kind of like that phenomenon where people look like their pets....

How many rings do McD and Frazier have again?

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Governor said:

How many rings do McD and Frazier have again?

 

And that is relevant to whether or not they are good coaches, how?

 

As I said, people like you seem to have no ability to look at things in nuanced ways...

[Solomon Grundy]

Leslie Frazier came in 2nd for Asst. Coach of the Year? 

[Beerball]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:27 PM, benderbender said:

If we have to stew on this for a year, the very least we’re owed is an explanation.

 

And McD robbed us of that by, best case scenario, trying to protect Frazier and our ST coach who was rumored on his way out anyway. 

 

I honestly feel for Frazier. Without 13, the blemishes on his record as DC were minor. A few blowouts over 3 seasons were easily overlooked. Not to mention the organization he played for was hiring and a reunion seemed a sure thing. 

You aren't "owed" jack diddly squat *****.

[benderbender]

1 hour ago, Beerball said:

You aren't "owed" jack diddly squat *****.

I disagree Ned Flanders

[Deadstroke]

1 hour ago, Beerball said:

You aren't "owed" jack diddly squat *****.

That's bull crap!  Fans pay the players and coaches; if anyone deserves an explanation, we do!!

[benderbender]

On 2/13/2022 at 4:05 PM, billsfan1959 said:

He doesn't owe you an explanation. He owes it to his players and coaches to handle it in a dignified way, learn from it, and be better.

Your elected officials don't owe you an explanation and you don't owe your wife explanations either I suppose. Are you saying that you're not interested? It's obviously not broken our fandom, but how can we know that anything has been resolved if we don't know what happened or why? How can they learn from it or be better if no one knows?

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, benderbender said:

Your elected officials don't owe you an explanation and you don't owe your wife explanations either I suppose. Are you saying that you're not interested? It's obviously not broken our fandom, but how can we know that anything has been resolved if we don't know what happened or why? How can they learn from it or be better if no one knows?

 

Elected officials are "elected" by "us" and, as such, they certainly are answerable to us for anything relevant to the roles in which they were elected to serve. My wife is my partner in my life and deserves full honesty from me in anything she wants to know.

 

McDermott is a football coach of an NFL team. He doesn't work for me and what he does has no impact in my life, other than how I choose to let a game affect me emotionally and psychologically. He doesn't owe me (or you) anything.

 

How do I know he will learn from it and be better? First, by looking at everything I know about him as a person and a coach to this point. Second, by what he does from here forward.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:43 PM, Bferra13 said:

One has already been a head coach with a 21 and 32 record and been fired from that gig whereas the other has never been afforded that opportunity. Frazier is vanilla as it gets be it HC or DC. He'd only be a placemat like Lovie is with the Texans, plus he's older. Bieniemy deserves a shot to show what he can do. Apples to oranges.

 

That's one perspective. 

 

Another perspective is that Frazier took over late-season for a firing and achieved a 3-3 record; the team tanked the next season after Favre left, and they drafted the wrong QB (Christian Ponder) - who Frazier managed a winning record with, in his 2nd season (10-6) only to fall back as teams got tape on him/he was injured the following season.

 

A lot of coaches and coordinators don't do so well when they don't have a QB - by your logic no failed HC should ever get a 2nd chance (Belichick was 36-44 in 5 years with Cleveland), and God Forbid a HC take over midseason on a bad team and have a bad 1st year with that team as they get things together.

 

Then on Bienemy, the other perspective is that his rap sheet as a young player/coach and even the DUI in his early 30s are a lot of baggage for a team to take on with the HC who will become one of the public-facing "faces of the franchise"

 

I think they both deserve chances, myself, but Frazier will need to live down those 13 seconds first.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Deadstroke said:

That's bull crap!  Fans pay the players and coaches; if anyone deserves an explanation, we do!!

 

I looked at my paycheck.  It had no deduction for "NFL players and coaches"

 

I think you must mean that revenue from TV (watched by fans, and driven by viewing audience) and gate revenues fund the NFL.   And they ultimately do, just as consumer choices "fund" video games and streaming services and so-forth. 

 

But consumers aren't "owed" an explanation for the game development  and streaming service choices.  Our power is limited to the decision: purchase, or don't.

Same with the NFL.  It is a consumer product, not a (directly) publicly funded entity.  Fan power is limited to watch/purchase tickets or don't watch.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/13/2022 at 12:47 PM, billsfan1959 said:

It's uncanny how your avatar so perfectly matches your posts.

Fascinating. Kind of like that phenomenon where people look like their pets....

 

That's actually been commented before in other threads with that guy.  Suits him/her perfectly.

[Mat68]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:12 AM, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

When Lovie Smith, gets a head coaching job over Frazier.  Is Lovie really better than Frazier?  Lovie’s defense was horrible last year except when he played the Jets and Lovie’s tenure in Illinois was something you would not write the books about.

 I know the Kanas City game  was a disaster and it would be hard to sell a fan base on that game but even I think Frazier is better then Lovie Smith. 

Lovie Smith took a team without a Qb to the Superbowl.  Thats more impressive than what Frazier did as a head coach.  Frazier wasnt terrible but didnt get the same level of success.  I think Frazier has a similar quality as Dungy.  Not the smart offensive guy.  Not the young energetic guy.  I think he will get a shot.  Some of these dumpster fire organizations need a leader of man and an adult.