Rumored Giants Players Available for Trade

[Big Turk]

On 2/7/2022 at 11:22 AM, SCBills said:

Kadarius Toney

 

Saquon Barkley

 

James Bradberry 

 

With Schoen over at NYG, any of these guys interest anyone here?

 

For me personally, I'd offer a 2nd Rounder for Toney.  Still on a rookie deal, 1st RD Pick last year.  Not the same player as Tyreek Hill in terms of speed, but similar playmaking ability out of the slot.  

 

I really like Toney...had him on my Dynasty fantasy team and he did well

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Gotta disagree on one thing here: Joe Mixon is a STUD and hands-down one of the best RBs in the league. He had 16 TDs and led the team in yards from scrimmage (1,519). It's impossible to argue that he's a bit player in that offense. Moreover, he's an initimdating, fast, bruising RB with good vision who commands attention. Forget about the ypc -- just look at how he opens thing up for the passing game. KC certainly keyed on him in the AFC championship game, and he handled the ball on 24 out of 66 offensive plays (36.3 percent of the time). I'm not a RB truther either! I mostly agree with you.  

 

In fact, I've said before that if the Bills were to be gifted just one RB from another team, he'd be my pick.

 

 

Yeah..........don't look at Joe Mixon's highly unimpressive 4.1 yards per carry in 2021.........which also happens to be his career ypc.

 

In fact, don't look at Cinci's rushing stats at all..........bottom 3rd of the NFL in yards per carry and rushing yards total.

 

We clearly have a different idea of what "a STUD" player is.........IMO that's a players whose impact is very hard to replace at the very least......Cinci could play action to a WHOLE LOTTA RB's and still be elite passing the ball and bottom 3rd of the league running it.

 

Mixon doesn't change my point anymore than Leonard Fournette did last year.    They are very much interchangeable players.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

And again, if we have a chance to sign or trade for a premier pass rusher then I absolutely take that opportunity over Barkley. But I just don't agree that that cap space given to Addison is more valuable than that cap space given to Barkley. Addison is not a difference maker, he's a rotational piece. That's what $8 million usually gets you from an edge rusher. Barkley has a chance to be a real difference maker for the team. Give Barkley the ball instead of Singletary on that 3rd and short against KC and I think he picks it up because he has speed to get around the edge. With Singletary it becomes a wasted down and we punt. That one play alone may be the difference between a win and a loss. I'm not a RB truther but you take it too far in the other direction by trying to argue that RB talent doesn't matter at all. Barkley being here doesn't mean we have to become a run first team. It just gives our offense another option when defenses are selling out to stop the pass, not to mention another pass catching weapon.

 

 

Like I said..........Khalil Mack was under contract for a lower cap hit than that.........so yeah, that little bit of cap space can help you acquire a great player.     And not just at pass rusher.........that can help you ink a stud CB or WR........positions that actually change games in the NFL.

 

And remember...........Addison was coming off of a 10 sack season in Carolina when Beane gave him that contract.............Barkley was dogsh*t last year..........they couldn't be coming from more different positions of performance.

 

Pass rushers........and most other positions........are more impactful than RB's.............it's a passing league.  

 

The proof is in the contracts.  

 

People get confused when they see all the yards RB's accumulate and all of the touches they can get............they think that means they are dominating the action.

 

In reality an average of 4 yards every time you hand the ball off to a RB is a BIG sacrifice when you have a QB who can average 7-8 yards every time they THROW the ball.     And even an elite receiving RB only averages around 8-9 yards per reception compared to an average starting WR getting 11-12 yards.    That's why those RB yards/touches aren't really game changers in the NFL.    

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah..........don't look at Joe Mixon's highly unimpressive 4.1 yards per carry in 2021.........which also happens to be his career ypc.

 

In fact, don't look at Cinci's rushing stats at all..........bottom 3rd of the NFL in yards per carry and rushing yards total.

 

We clearly have a different idea of what "a STUD" player is.........IMO that's a players whose impact is very hard to replace at the very least......Cinci could play action to a WHOLE LOTTA RB's and still be elite passing the ball and bottom 3rd of the league running it.

 

Mixon doesn't change my point anymore than Leonard Fournette did last year.    They are very much interchangeable players.

Ypc for RBs can be HIGHLY misleading, especially when they are supreme touchdown makers.  If you ain’t watching Mixon play in the actual games and you’re judging him on ypc, you’re missing something important. Teams key on him, and their o-line is not just bad, it’s terrible. Yet he remains a true difference maker. He is three times the player Singletary is regardless of ypc. And I don’t dislike Singletary at all.

Edited February 10, 2022 by dave mcbride

[FireChans]

On 2/7/2022 at 12:07 PM, HappyDays said:

Toney has major character issues, I doubt we'd be interested. If the Giants are shopping their 1st round pick after his rookie season that is a big red flag.

Joe Mixon punched a girl. He's in the Superbowl this week.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Like I said..........Khalil Mack was under contract for a lower cap hit than that.........so yeah, that little bit of cap space can help you acquire a great player.     And not just at pass rusher.........that can help you ink a stud CB or WR........positions that actually change games in the NFL.

 

And remember...........Addison was coming off of a 10 sack season in Carolina when Beane gave him that contract.............Barkley was dogsh*t last year..........they couldn't be coming from more different positions of performance.

 

Pass rushers........and most other positions........are more impactful than RB's.............it's a passing league.  

 

The proof is in the contracts.  

 

People get confused when they see all the yards RB's accumulate and all of the touches they can get............they think that means they are dominating the action.

 

In reality an average of 4 yards every time you hand the ball off to a RB is a BIG sacrifice when you have a QB who can average 7-8 yards every time they THROW the ball.     And even an elite receiving RB only averages around 8-9 yards per reception compared to an average starting WR getting 11-12 yards.    That's why those RB yards/touches aren't really game changers in the NFL.    

Passing plays produce way more turnovers and zero-yardage plays. There is a flow-of-game/ball control component to running games that is very important. See my post above about RB value. I think I’m probably right about this because every coach and GM in the league values good running back play. Where you can find that guy in the draft is a very different issue, as I mention above.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Joe Mixon punched a girl. He's in the Superbowl this week.

 

Not to sound callous but Toney's issues are of the football character variety. Skipping voluntary OTAs as a rookie, missing or being late to meetings, etc. Doesn't sound like he's entirely devoted to the sport. It's a classic case of a GM completely failing to evaluate the person he was bringing into the locker room.

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not to sound callous but Toney's issues are of the football character variety. Skipping voluntary OTAs as a rookie, missing or being late to meetings, etc. Doesn't sound like he's entirely devoted to the sport. It's a classic case of a GM completely failing to evaluate the person he was bringing into the locker room.

Sounds like a young kid who could use a couple of veteran professional WR’s in a strong character oriented locker room to help him get straight.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Passing plays produce way more turnovers and zero-yardage plays. There is a flow-of-game/ball control component to running games that is very important. See my post above about RB value. I think I’m probably right about this because every coach and GM in the league values good running back play. Where you can find that guy in the draft is a very different issue, as I mention above.

 

Oh you're very wrong.   HC and GM's don't value RB play.........that is evidenced by the pay scale and where they are drafted.    Those facts are not irrelevant, though it would be convenient for your argument to say so.

 

What teams value is utilizing the run to enhance the success of their passing game.  

 

You can do that with a good OL and adequate RB play.   It's been proven over and over for a couple decades now.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Ypc for RBs can be HIGHLY misleading, especially when they are supreme touchdown makers.  If you ain’t watching Mixon play in the actual games and you’re judging him on ypc, you’re missing something important. Teams key on him, and their o-line is not just bad, it’s terrible. Yet he remains a true difference maker. He is three times the player Singletary is regardless of ypc. And I don’t dislike Singletary at all.

 

You know I watch a ton of NFL football.   I know who that miscreant Joe Mixon is and I know that he is NOT "three times the player" that Singletary is.    That is ridiculous hyperbole thrown out there to try to pad an argument that really has little merit.   The same arguments were made last year for Leonard Fournette.   Like I said, those two jokers are peas in a pod as players.   Are they marginally more talented than Singletary........probably.........but who cares.   They are running backs.   Block it up.   There is always another one waiting in the wings.   As superman Derrick Henry found out when he was out performed by practice squader D'Onta Foreman in his absence this season.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Augie]

On 2/7/2022 at 11:22 AM, SCBills said:

Kadarius Toney

 

Saquon Barkley

 

James Bradberry 

 

With Schoen over at NYG, any of these guys interest anyone here?

 

For me personally, I'd offer a 2nd Rounder for Toney.  Still on a rookie deal, 1st RD Pick last year.  Not the same player as Tyreek Hill in terms of speed, but similar playmaking ability out of the slot.  

 

I started those rumors. I only made up two. The other one is fictional. 

 

 

 

.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Augie

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Sounds like a young kid who could use a couple of veteran professional WR’s in a strong character oriented locker room to help him get straight.

 

Yeah... or we could just draft a player with a similar skill set on day 2, without the baggage and the 1st round contract. There are slightly less dynamic versions of Toney every year in round 2 and 3. This is the year I want the Bills to finally draft one.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah... or we could just draft a player with a similar skill set on day 2, without the baggage and the 1st round contract. There are slightly less dynamic versions of Toney every year in round 2 and 3. This is the year I want the Bills to finally draft one.

Who?

[HappyDays]

Just now, FireChans said:

Who?

 

Calvin Austin

Skyy Moore

Wandale Robinson

Romeo Doubs

 

Just a few names off the top of my head. With the disclaimer that there are people on this board who can speak more to their value as prospects than I can, they are all agile/speed WRs that can line up in the slot and give us dynamic YAC ability.

 

I would never draft a player with that skill set in the 1st round and I wouldn't risk a character concern like I might for a premier position. It's too easy to fill that skill set later in the draft.

[HappyDays]

41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As superman Derrick Henry found out when he was out performed by practice squader D'Onta Foreman in his absence this season.

 

Yeah, this is straight up not true. With Derrick Henry on the field in the regular season the Titans averaged 28.4 PPG. After his injury they averaged 21.3 PPG. A full TD per game difference. I know there are other factors... but you can't ignore that stark discrepancy. This is why you can't just look at YPC. When Henry is on the field every defense is keyed in on him. His presence alone opens up other parts of the offense. That's what an elite RB brings to the table. Foreman was still good but Henry was a legitimate MVP candidate before his injury. In their playoff game against the Bengals he clearly was not ready to play at his normal caliber and their offense stalled out because of it. Good chance they would have cruised to the Super Bowl if Henry had never been injured. The difference between Henry at the top of his game and Foreman is worth 3 points which is all they needed in that game.

 

You're trying to convince people that RB is the one position where more talent doesn't matter. It's not going to happen. Everyone can see how elite RBs impact the game. If the Chiefs had drafted Jonathan Taylor instead of Clyde Edwards-Helaire they might be unstoppable right now. You're not going to convince anyone that upgrading the RB position is meaningless.

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by HappyDays

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah, this is straight up not true. With Derrick Henry on the field in the regular season the Titans averaged 28.4 PPG. After his injury they averaged 21.3 PPG. A full TD per game difference. I know there are other factors... but you can't ignore that stark discrepancy. This is why you can't just look at YPC. When Henry is on the field every defense is keyed in on him. His presence alone opens up other parts of the offense. That's what an elite RB brings to the table. Foreman was still good but Henry was a legitimate MVP candidate before his injury. In their playoff game against the Bengals he clearly was not ready to play at his normal caliber and their offense stalled out because of it. Good chance they would have cruised to the Super Bowl if Henry had never been injured. The difference between Henry at the top of his game and Foreman is worth 3 points which is all they needed in that game.

 

You're trying to convince people that RB is the one position where more talent doesn't matter. It's not going to happen. Everyone can see how elite RBs impact the game. If the Chiefs had drafted Jonathan Taylor instead of Clyde Edwards-Helaire they might be unstoppable right now. You're not going to convince anyone that upgrading the RB position is meaningless.

 

 

 

Henry wasn't a legit MVP candidate.........he was barely getting 4 yards per carry...........his play had dropped off considerably they were just feeding him the ball at a record clip and their WR corps was together early in the season so they were more dynamic.    Career scrub Foreman more than replicated what Henry brought to the table and the stark difference in what Henry is now versus Foreman was evident in the playoff game where Foreman made it look easy against the Bengals D.    Feeding Henry when he was clearly the less dynamic back stopped their offense in the playoffs,  not the Bengals defense.

 

The imaginary, incalculable impact of an elite RB is so great that their teams somehow never win SB's.     Henry himself has strung together 3 straight bad performances in the playoffs.    Remember when the Saints had Brees, all those receiving threats AND the amazing Alvin Kamara?    Then remember when they got beaten at home again and again in the playoffs?   If you need convincing then that's on you.   The facts are right there for you.

 

BTW that Jonathan Taylor guy...........he missed the playoffs entirely despite playing behind the highest draft pedigreed OL in NFL history........a #1 overall a #6 overall,  another mid-first rounder and a mid-second rounder.

 

Bottom line is.........giving the ball to a RB in the NFL is a necessary evil.........you can't replicate the impact of a well passed football by running the football........great production from a RB is a lot less than average production from the pass game.......when each touch gets more important in the playoffs that disparity is often magnified.

 

Sorry to say but it's not some kind of f*cking cheat code when you have what is considered an "elite" RB.  

[BillsShredder83]

Give me Toney! I'd prefer to pay less but would drop our 1st rder NO QUESTIONS ASKED

On 2/7/2022 at 11:50 AM, 17islongenough said:

Toney seemed like a head case.  Bills should give up a 6th for him

Based on what? I never saw anything that made me think it

[Buffalo03]

I don't see the Giants trading Barkley or Toney. If they are really gonna try to make it work for another season with Daniel Jones then why would they take away his weapons?

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You know I watch a ton of NFL football.   I know who that miscreant Joe Mixon is and I know that he is NOT "three times the player" that Singletary is.    That is ridiculous hyperbole thrown out there to try to pad an argument that really has little merit.   The same arguments were made last year for Leonard Fournette.   Like I said, those two jokers are peas in a pod as players.   Are they marginally more talented than Singletary........probably.........but who cares.   They are running backs.   Block it up.   There is always another one waiting in the wings.   As superman Derrick Henry found out when he was out performed by practice squader D'Onta Foreman in his absence this season.

 

 

At least you're not arguing that Mixon was a "bit player" in the AFC championship game anymore! I'll take that as a W.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

At least you're not arguing that Mixon was a "bit player" in the AFC championship game anymore! I'll take that as a W.  

 

No he's definitely a bit player.  

 

If Ja'Marr Chase goes down they simply can't replace him with an equally productive/impactful player.    

 

If Joe Mixon goes down they can find another guy to run for 4.1 yards off the street.   

 

The bottom line with RB's:   there is a sweet spot..........you find one good enough to produce when called upon........but not so intriguing that you feel compelled to "give him his touches".  

 

Devin Singletary totally checks those boxes if your target point in the run game is between the tackle and the guard.   He's ordinary on the eyes.........but he consistently outproduces most RB's when he gets the ball.

 

Joe Mixon is that guy who breaks off that exciting looking run that makes you think if you give him the ball more he will do that more...........while simultaneously forgetting why he always ends up with just 4 yards per carry every year.