Benjamin Franklin Posted May 6, 2005 Author Posted May 6, 2005 Einstein claimed God would not make junk and so posited a unified theory that still is holding up. Chesterton remarked that an atheist has a hard course because he has to believe in EVERYTHING being possible. Pascal's binary mind concluded that either God and Heaven and stuff is true or it is not. If "off" it matters not but if "on" it matters for eternity; thus, the safe bet is "on". Food for thought. 329784[/snapback] Exactly my point. Thank you.
BuckeyeBill Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Wow. You are sure a fierce debater. That riposte was carefully constructed. I am helpless. You have at once disproven my statement with inescapable argument and placed yourself in an intellectual pantheon. I only continue so that your wisdom will somehow edify me. Thank you for showing an interest in me. 329926[/snapback] LOL Rude, possibly a little mean... BUT O SO FUNNY!!! LOL
Benjamin Franklin Posted May 6, 2005 Author Posted May 6, 2005 Don't forget to not let ignorance be your achilles heal. I truly believe in God, who created the Heavens and the Earth according to the Genesis passage... I believe that as strongly as anyone can believe anything. But I also teach science, I teach evolution. ... But if you study evolution, it has a lot more to it than just the previous paragraph... which I do not believe in. Be informed, you are on the winning side of this debate, but be informed as well. 329949[/snapback] Evolution is just one of several theories, and ID deserves a spot at the scientific table, since it can explain more than evolution. You wonder why kids in the US aren't doing well in school? It's because teachers refuse to be more flexible in what they teach their students.
Cripes Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Precisely. That is why they are called theories. Einstein did not posit his "theory" as anything more than just that - an explanation of how the universe operates based on underlying supposition, to wit, that God created a universe in which there was order. While the discussion is fun i recall my Philosophy of Science prof remarking that " Science can never explain Why and Theology can never answer how 329914[/snapback] I don't know how you got that we somehow agreed. Einstein NEVER developed or "posited" a unified theory. And the people who are standing on his shoulders today looking for laws and numbers that mesh the subatomic world with the three-dimensional one we exist, they find more and more puzzling evidence of the chaos and non-order of things.
Benjamin Franklin Posted May 6, 2005 Author Posted May 6, 2005 If you ever hear somebody say that ______ is scientific fact, tell them that in science there are NO FACTS. There is just well supported hypotheses, theories, and laws. 329956[/snapback] Exactly. Theories like ID.
BuckeyeBill Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 You wonder why kids in the US aren't doing well in school? It's because teachers refuse to be more flexible in what they teach their students. 329961[/snapback] Hey hey now... Don't forget apathetic parents. When more than 2/3 of my parents don't even show up to Parent Teacher conferences... that shows apathy on behalf of parents... which the child sees and adopts themselves. Don't put all the blame on all us poor teachers, and I will NEVER put all the blame on all parents either.
Johnny Coli Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 I don't respect saying that the existence of God is "crap". That's rude and ignorant. 329951[/snapback] Read the post aagin. I didn't say God is crap. What is crap, though, is explaining away a scientific black box as some divine mystery. To me, that is ignorant.
beausox Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Pascal's Wager: " 'God is, or He is not'. But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up.... which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things at stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose...But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and loss in wagering that God is...If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. "
bobblehead Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Macroevolution... the theory that goo all of a sudden became bacteria which all of a sudden became a fish... which all of a sudden became a monkey... which all of a sudden became a man. I don't agree with that. No evidence to support it. 329949[/snapback] I've have this moral compass telling me that science explains the earth and the universe, and we need this to survive, but what explains the science? I believe that's where faith comes in. I this what you are referring to here?
BuckeyeBill Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Read the post aagin. I didn't say God is crap. What is crap, though, is explaining away a scientific black box as some divine mystery. To me, that is ignorant. 329967[/snapback] I was about to apologize until I DID read your post again... You said "...the "divine hand of God" or some other crap." If you state that anything dealing with the Hand of God is crap, then that is calling God Himself crap. Again, I say that is rude and ignorant, because anyone who has seen the Divine Hand of God, would NEVER call it crap, or even compare it. Scientific black box as a divine mystery... God enjoys us trying to figure out His nature. He has definitely given us the ability to understand it to some degree. But remember that God Himself is the architect behind all science.
Benjamin Franklin Posted May 6, 2005 Author Posted May 6, 2005 Pascal's Wager: " 'God is, or He is not'. But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up.... which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things at stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose...But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and loss in wagering that God is...If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. " 329970[/snapback] Let's see someone respond to THAT! Ha!
bobblehead Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 But remember that God Himself is the architect behind all science. 329978[/snapback] Thanks. That answers me. That's a good message. The original post, and the attitude behind it confirms my suspicions about ID, that it's might just be fundamentalist creationism, only "tricked out" for the modern age. I could make a joke by saying that Bob Jones University must have started an engineering school, but I won't. ID, at the end of the day, still allows for pitting science v. religion. It's still one group trying to influence their idea of God on others.
Cripes Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Let's see someone respond to THAT! Ha! 329996[/snapback] Pascal's Wager? Yeah, it's gotten a little feedback over the years.
beausox Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 I don't know how you got that we somehow agreed. Einstein NEVER developed or "posited" a unified theory. And the people who are standing on his shoulders today looking for laws and numbers that mesh the subatomic world with the three-dimensional one we exist, they find more and more puzzling evidence of the chaos and non-order of things. 329963[/snapback] [/quote I am not a physicist- I flunked the Physics Regents based in part upon my then 17 year-old certitude that I would never "need" it anyway and it was incredibly boring and if you knew who taught it well let me tell you.... In a sense it is good that I did flunk it because knowing that I know close to nothing does not entrap me with false bravado- i mean had I gotten an "A"I would have been overconfident- and thus i am constantly researching stuff. Anywho. I googled Einstein's unified Theory and , to my ignorant surprise, I got more physics than I ever thought I would need. The site claims " the attempts to develop a unified theory are grounded in the belief that all physical phenomenana should ultimately be explainable by SOME UNDERLYING UNITY ( emphasis mine) " And what is all that about the interaction of gravity, electromagnetism and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Geeze. to the untrained mind that sort a , kind a sounds like.. like... a theory...perhaps one with unity...could it be?...well yes a unified theory. Was Einstein successful? No, unfortunately he rejected Quantum Physics. Of course I rejected Quantum physics also. You know what they say about great minds.....
Benjamin Franklin Posted May 6, 2005 Author Posted May 6, 2005 Read the post aagin. I didn't say God is crap. What is crap, though, is explaining away a scientific black box as some divine mystery. To me, that is ignorant. 329967[/snapback] And that is why our kids aren't learning science. Anyone who thinks this country's lack of science education is the fault of parents alone is counting their chickens despite not knowing whether the egg came first. People like you are not willing to teach viable theories of science. If you were teaching science in 2000 BC, you'd be teaching the square wheel design, rejecting the round wheels. You're fixated on accepting ideas that are admittedly WRONG, instead of at least considering, and teaching, ideas that are right. I weep for the US science student.
Johnny Coli Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 I was about to apologize until I DID read your post again... You said "...the "divine hand of God" or some other crap." If you state that anything dealing with the Hand of God is crap, then that is calling God Himself crap. Again, I say that is rude and ignorant, because anyone who has seen the Divine Hand of God, would NEVER call it crap, or even compare it. Scientific black box as a divine mystery... God enjoys us trying to figure out His nature. He has definitely given us the ability to understand it to some degree. But remember that God Himself is the architect behind all science. 329978[/snapback] Zip up your fly, Bill. You're exposing your agenda. ID is a back-door attempt to ram a Christian fundamentalist agenda into public schools under the guise of science. That's all.
Benjamin Franklin Posted May 6, 2005 Author Posted May 6, 2005 Zip up your fly, Bill. You're exposing your agenda. ID is a back-door attempt to ram a Christian fundamentalist agenda into public schools under the guise of science. That's all. 330077[/snapback] Really? I don't see Christ as part of the ID design curriculum. Touchy aren't we?
sweet baboo Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 Really? I don't see Christ as part of the ID design curriculum. Touchy aren't we? 330084[/snapback] you're completely delusional if you are going to try and pretend that christians had nothing to do with the creation of the farce called intelligent design
beausox Posted May 6, 2005 Posted May 6, 2005 you're completely delusional if you are going to try and pretend that christians had nothing to do with the creation of the farce called intelligent design 330089[/snapback] College Guy; I hope you are still in college- my suspicion is you are and will be for a while- so that it may occur to you in your exhaustive study of feminist reconstructionism and the history of gay and lesbian artifacts and the exploitation by dead europeans of everyone that Christians inherited the ID from Judaism. Even the most backward pagan cults had creation stories. Indeed it is only the illuminati of post- Enlightenment Europe who are so stupid as to fall from grace.
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