Kurt Warner - Josh Allen deserved the W

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

What the ***** is a layup?

Two point basket without any serious opposition or a stealthy date with a female in the restaurant bathroom with Big Ben. Mets fans are a little slow on the take. 

[ChrisWatson#21]

Allen has a much better game than Mahomes now.  It's laughable to me how many people still compare both as if its close at all.  Watching film you see how well he goes through his progressions making throws from within the pocket and how worlds better his pocket presence is over Mahomes.  Josh has got to the point now where he throws receivers open on any level of the field where as Mahomes seems like a one-two read QB that will revert to his athletic ability waiting for someone to break off a route and improvise.  

[Franco_92]

Does Diggs not pay attention in the huddle? Lol

[Mark Long Beach]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Having watched a lot of Warner's breakdowns a layup to him is a single defender read play. Where it is just read one guy if he stays wide throw to spot X, if he cheats inside throw to spot Y. 

 

I generally like Warner as a guy to break down QB play but I do wonder if it is getting a bit outdated. He is from what @BADOLBILZ has dubbed previously the "cerebral era" of NFL Quarterbacking where he and Brady and the Mannings and Brees beat you with their brain. They made the right decision 95% of the time and that made execution easy. Not saying Allen and Mahomes and Herbert etc can't play neck up, they clearly can... but they have the physical gifts that allows them to make a wrong decision and get a good outcome more often than those guys in the 00s and early 10s could. This generation of NFL Quarterbacks are shifting the dial a bit back towards physical gifts over mental gifts. The "cerebral era" is probably over with #12 retiring. 

 

Warner was Lightning quick with his reads and knew how to distill plays down to the bare essence.   As you said, he was crazy good at doing the cerebral part of the play.  In my memory he also had a lightning fast release.   He'd see the play work or the defense make a mistake and immediately take advantage of it.    He was also extremely precise in throws to allow the receiver to shield the defender.   Anquan Boldon was a master at that and he and Kurt were fantastic together.

 

I've always felt that Warner's criticisms were a little harsh, but not unreasonable because he was "right" in that Josh was too slow at taking an easy short play and also that his mechanics were very inconsistent.  Both of which were absolutely true.   But Josh as steadily improved at both of those. 

 

The unfair part of his criticism I always felt, was that it's a RESULTS oriented game.  You get it done or you don't, and it doesn't matter how you get it done.  Doing something technique-wise perfectly but not reaching the first down marker is still a failure.   Josh was consistently finding ways to succeed even by being not perfect, and I didn't feel Warner was giving him enough credit for those.

 

However,  as Josh has improved in the mental game, Kurt has acknowledged it and lauded his improvements.  I don't hold it against him like others seem to that he's somehow "late" in recognizing Josh's abilities.

 

One of my favorite plays was one of the examples Warner showed, which was the swing pass to Singletary on the free rusher.  Josh recognized it and threw it SUPER quickly and accurately which gave Singletary the chance to have an open field and use it for 14 yards.   Far, far, far too often Josh has been slow to get pass out, or inaccurate enough in doing it so the receiver was easy pickings to be tackled for little gain.  Plays like that as a cerebral QB, added to his already fantastic physical talent, is what's going to make Josh truly unstoppable.   ...and hopefully legendary.

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

This was Kurt's take before the Patriots playoff game:

 

 

Kurt himself even took exception to my response.

 

 

How about those "layups" now?

Well done Promo!  I think this will be one of those tweets K Warner erases.

 

Certainly looks like K Warners early predictions of J Allen failure was being used as a basis for his bias, and Warner, once again, predicted a poor outcome.  Doubling down.

[nucci]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

What the ***** is a layup?

It's like a homerun pass

[TheFunPolice]

Every QB misses easy passes sometimes...

 

All it takes is the QB and WR/RB to slightly out of synch, and a pass that is exactly where the QB wanted it to be is not where the RB/WR is. Or other times, the QB just misses one. It happens. 

 

I do agree that Allen is a better QB than Mahomes, although both are great. When you pressure Allen he'll go to the mat with you, but IMO Mahomes falls apart when you really crank up the pressure on him and force him to take hits and make tight window passes. 

 

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I have no idea how anyone with 2 working eyeballs watched allens 2 playoff games and not think this is the best QB in the NFL

 

Even in the video warner is laughing at the kind of plays he makes. There was a video of belicheck breaking down allen and even he laughed. The guy makes plays no QB ever has and honestly probably ever will

 

I really want to see how he responds to this loss. I think he might come out and just set the league a blaze. I know this following comment might be dis liked here but allen has that Brady competitiveness were if he feels wronged he will hold a grudge and bury you 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Cheektowaga Chad

[Best Williams Available]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Having watched a lot of Warner's breakdowns a layup to him is a single defender read play. Where it is just read one guy if he stays wide throw to spot X, if he cheats inside throw to spot Y. 

 

I generally like Warner as a guy to break down QB play but I do wonder if it is getting a bit outdated. He is from what @BADOLBILZ has dubbed previously the "cerebral era" of NFL Quarterbacking where he and Brady and the Mannings and Brees beat you with their brain. They made the right decision 95% of the time and that made execution easy. Not saying Allen and Mahomes and Herbert etc can't play neck up, they clearly can... but they have the physical gifts that allows them to make a wrong decision and get a good outcome more often than those guys in the 00s and early 10s could. This generation of NFL Quarterbacks are shifting the dial a bit back towards physical gifts over mental gifts. The "cerebral era" is probably over with #12 retiring. 

Great analysis. The QBs you mention had the mobility of Galapagos tortoises, so no surprise they can’t comprehend great athleticism.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

If Nick Wright has come around, the gig is definitely up.

who is Nick Wright !   I mean the Bills and the fans know what we have in Allen.  Allen will get full respect once he wins the SB.  

47 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

 

I really want to see how he responds to this loss. I think he might come out and just set the league a blaze. I know this following comment might be dis liked here but allen has that Brady competitiveness were if he feels wronged he will hold a grudge and bury you 

 

Allen already has that Brady like push...Unfortunately, his teammates and coaching staff have let him down. 

[Niagara Dude]

9 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

This content is a week old, but I did the site search and couldn't find it.  If this is buried in another thread, mods feel free to merge...

 

I ran across this by accident.  It is 15 minutes of Warner breaking down some Allen plays in the KC game.  There are some really good details in it pointing out what they were trying to accomplish, why Gabe was open, what Beas was doing, Diggs probably not knowing the play call on the two point conversion he caught, how the Bills ended up attacking the absence of Mathieu on some key plays, etc.

 

 

HOF performance wasted by coaches 

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

What the ***** is a layup?

 

It’s the two-point conversion pass that Jackson missed against the Steelers.

[Albany,n.y.]

I think the Bills have discouraged layups ever since Nate Odoms got injured playing basketball.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

10 hours ago, eball said:

 

I absolutely intend to watch the Williams movie.  I can't imagine I'll ever sit down to watch the Kurt "Jesus" Warner story.

Why? Warner’s story is both inspirational as it was improbable—the man had “it” on the field, and it was fun watching his offenses play back in the day. But for the cheating Pats, he would’ve had multiple rings, not just as many as Rodgers…

3 hours ago, Best Williams Available said:

Great analysis. The QBs you mention had the mobility of Galapagos tortoises, so no surprise they can’t comprehend great athleticism.

Warner literally says in this clip things like, the Chiefs played (this particular play) right, but Josh still makes them look wrong, and the like. He was very complimentary throughout, imho.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

This content is a week old, but I did the site search and couldn't find it.  If this is buried in another thread, mods feel free to merge...

 

I ran across this by accident.  It is 15 minutes of Warner breaking down some Allen plays in the KC game.  There are some really good details in it pointing out what they were trying to accomplish, why Gabe was open, what Beas was doing, Diggs probably not knowing the play call on the two point conversion he caught, how the Bills ended up attacking the absence of Mathieu on some key plays, etc.

 

 

 

there needs to be  a study ball of the final 13 seconds

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

11 hours ago, eball said:

 

And by the way, if ANY of you go see his stupid movie I'll personally come to your house and whoop your ass.

Trust me, anything’s better than the latest Ghostbusters tripe (and yes, I am a fan of the originals) . 

[Augie]

12 hours ago, Gugny said:

What the ***** is a layup?

 

It’s a basketball term for how short people who can’t jump try to score when they get near the basket. It is often thwarted by giant, athletic players who send that $%^& back in their face, reminding them that this is no longer the Hoosiers era. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 hours ago, eball said:

 

And by the way, if ANY of you go see his stupid movie I'll personally come to your house and whoop your ass.

 

Whats wrong with the movie ?

 

 

11 hours ago, jletha said:

Kurt is allowed to grade on whatever scale he wants. But one thing I didnt understand with this specific criticism is that he admits he makes up for "missing layups" with his tremendous physical talent. Which implies that he is getting the job done, just not in the way Kurt wants. It almost comes of that he would give him more praise Josh made the layups but wasnt able to impose his will physically. If youre getting the job done then youre getting the job done. I guess isnt the point (or at least a point) of getting a physically gifted QB that they dont have to be perfectly cerebral. The margin for error increases. Otherwise youre Baker Mayfield.

 

I guess if youre grading Josh as a pure passer its fair. But if youre grading him as a QB capable of moving the ball down the field then it seems incorrect.

 

Josh makes the layups too, those misses were 2 years ago

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

Allen has a much better game than Mahomes now.  It's laughable to me how many people still compare both as if its close at all.  Watching film you see how well he goes through his progressions making throws from within the pocket and how worlds better his pocket presence is over Mahomes.  Josh has got to the point now where he throws receivers open on any level of the field where as Mahomes seems like a one-two read QB that will revert to his athletic ability waiting for someone to break  a route and improvise.  

 

Definitely, Allen passed him this year and it showed in the playoffs. If we had playmakers like KC we'd be unstoppable. It would also help if our defense wasnt so passive.

 

 

[CoudyBills]

18 hours ago, eball said:

 

And by the way, if ANY of you go see his stupid movie I'll personally come to your house and whoop your ass.

Now I'm going to the movie.  Bring a lunch cause one of us in gonna be hungry when it's done.