Maybe the Fix has been in.

[goober]

25 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

NFL refs now average $205,000/year. So long gone are the days of the "moonlighting referee." Sure, many have other jobs. So would you if your main gig required working 17 days a year.

There's number 17 again.  Love & peace or sin & evil?

[qwksilver]

The OP might want to loosen the tin foil just a bit.

[Buffalo Boy]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The Giants and Redskins battled it out in the regular season finale in 2019 - the loser got the #2 pick and Chase Young..

 

Neither team looked like they wanted to lose that game.   

Phily (?) put there third string QB to lose their final game last year.

[stuvian]

The Eagles tanked in Doug Pederson's last year under the guise of showcasing Jalen Hurts. If a team has a choice between having a six win season or a three win season and drafting the next great QB they will take the latter. No one tells billionaires what to do. I don't blame Flores or any other coach for refusing to play along because doing so destroys your integrity as a coach. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

24 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

NFL refs now average $205,000/year. So long gone are the days of the "moonlighting referee." Sure, many have other jobs. So would you if your main gig required working 17 days a year.

Yeah, well midnight merchandiser at Home Despot is getting a bit trying. 🤨

*
And as for the overall thrust of the thread:

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

So you’d have to show me the motivations for such a grand, widespread fixing conspiracy. The alleged motivation of Ross is easy to see - he wanted the best possible draft position. But for multiple teams, refs, league officials and co-conspirators like gambling sites to be working something? What’s the impetus behind that scheme?

 

The point here is that it doesnt have to be grand or widespread at all.  There's inflection points in every football game, and if a coach wanted to throw a game because there was a million bucks in it for him, it wouldn't be all that hard.  I work in sales and I've seen people marched to the door my whole career because they cheated the system to get an extra $1000 in a commissions check.

 

I'm not saying it's happening but people getting indignant at the the very possibility that it might happen, i wonder if you ever leave your house and interact with other human beings

[Buffalo Boy]

3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

So you’d have to show me the motivations for such a grand, widespread fixing conspiracy. The alleged motivation of Ross is easy to see - he wanted the best possible draft position. But for multiple teams, refs, league officials and co-conspirators like gambling sites to be working something? What’s the impetus behind that scheme?

    It still blows my mind how all of you guys put words in each other’s mouths. 
    I said nothing about a grand conspiracy. I said that when you have accusations of an owner making bribes to his coach to throw games AND he and the league have multiple hands in gambling venture pockets it looks bad.  Bad looks opens the door to doubts. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

     I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been started.

     We all have heard the allegations that Miami’s owner Ross was offering Flores $100k a loss to tank.

     The NFL should not be in bed with Casinos or online betting sites such as Fan duel. It immediately causes a bad look due to the appearance of conflicting interests. I didn’t research the numbers but it must be in the hundreds of millions in advertising revenue. 
     Then there is the fact that a group of 32 billionaires refuse to employ professional referees. If you own 1 billion you are filthy rich. And yet, the league has refused to hire these guys on full time. It isn’t a money issue. That makes zero sense.

     If Ross was willing to proposition his coach to lose ( I get that the proof isn’t there but tell me it doesn’t sound plausible) why wouldn’t he or other powers that be not be willing to slip a few shekels to a dirty ref or three?

      I’m not say it happened. But, there is a saying a teacher of mine had: “ It doesn’t just have to be right, it has to look right.”

      There have been multiple threads on here over the years talking about the fix being in. Many on here poopoo it because it seems insane.

     Which brings me to my final point:

     What would it look like if you were going to throw a game from a coaching perspective?

      Run a bunch of low percentage plays and punt while shackling your best player(s)?  Make absolutely befuddling and egregious decisions that are completely indefensible?

     I haven’t personally believed that the fix was in in a conspiracy level way  in the past. I’m not saying I do now. But, for the first time the dots are starting to connect themselves and picture coming together isn’t a pretty or even palatable one.

 

Flame away Ladies and Gentlemen 

I agree 💯.  I’ve said it for decades.  It’s happened in other sports, not sure why anyone would think that there is no chance of this happening in the nfl.  Maybe because humans are innately good…. 🤣 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Paranoia strikes deep.  Into your life it will creep.  It starts when you're always afraid.  Step out of line, and you lose a conditional draft pick.  Or even worse, start a rumble at Golden Corral.

[MJS]

If there is any funny business going on, it is by individual teams trying to get advantage over the other teams.

 

Ross wasn't paying his coach to lose because he wanted to fix games. He wanted a higher draft pick so he could start winning in future seasons. It was about winning later, not any kind of betting.

[bigK14094]

Flores needs to understand, that as soon as Schoen went to the Giants as GM, that Daboll was likely going to be his choice as long as he could  get the ownership group to agree.  That , in fact, might have been part of the dialog before Schoen even agreed to go there.  Above all else, hiring authority hires people they are comfortable with to do the job they are filling.  No super interview was going to break that chain of events imho.  Its not racial, although some would say it is, its the Giants trying to bring some of the Bills DNA by taking a big bite.  (four guys so far at my count)   Flores got released in Miami for whatever reason, he had a contract, I am sure it will be paid out.  Outside of the contract, its employment at will on the part of the ownership of any franchise. (the money talks)   If Flores thinks there should be a quota on management positions  in football, one could argue there should also be a quota on the distribution of races in the player ranks.   That might or might not produce the best quality of football as an entertainment product and could impact the revenue of the league in undertermined ways.  Personally, I am a fan for the football game itself and would hate to see quality play suffer if less qualified players were kept on roster for non football reasons.                                               

 

[dorquemada]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree 💯.  I’ve said it for decades.  It’s happened in other sports, not sure why anyone would think that there is no chance of this happening in the nfl.  Maybe because humans are innately good…. 🤣 

 

Right, lol at that.  Look, anywhere there's a lot of money, there will be people lying, cheating, and stealing to get at it.  I happen to agree that the NFL hopping in bed with legalized gambling is a bad idea, and will ultimately incentivize bad behavior.  Not by everybody, not in a largely coordinated fashion, but I can say with great certainty that there will be instances where connected people, be they coaches, players, officials, or owners, will break the rules to enrich themselves.  That anyone finds this even mildly controversial from a likelihood standpoint is just amazing to me.  Perhaps I'm too cynical, but I don't think so

[sullim4]

Regarding the officiating department...

 

As was said upthread, they are paid very well for what amounts to 16 games of work (they get multiple bye/off weeks), plus preseason and postseason duty.

 

I think the major issue with the officiating is the average age and physical fitness.  These guys range in age from their late 30s to 70 years old (in the case of Tony Corrente).  You can't tell me that things like reaction time, eyesight, etc don't diminish by the time you reach 55, let alone 70.  They should move the older officials up into the booth for replay, and get younger blood out on the field.  I honestly think this is the biggest reason officiating is terrible - it's being conducted by the same group waiting in line for the salad bar at Wendys at 4pm on a Wednesday for their discount.

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

If there is any funny business going on, it is by individual teams trying to get advantage over the other teams.

 

Ross wasn't paying his coach to lose because he wanted to fix games. He wanted a higher draft pick so he could start winning in future seasons. It was about winning later, not any kind of betting.

 

"paying his coach to lose" = "fix games"

 

does it matter why?  From a rules and legal perspective, it absolutely does not matter why

[ColoradoBills]

While I surely don't believe in any league wide conspiracies this whole tanking thing does put a stain on the NFL.

I don't like it and wish it didn't happen.

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    It still blows my mind how all of you guys put words in each other’s mouths. 
    I said nothing about a grand conspiracy. I said that when you have accusations of an owner making bribes to his coach to throw games AND he and the league have multiple hands in gambling venture pockets it looks bad.  Bad looks opens the door to doubts. 

 

23 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    It still blows my mind how all of you guys put words in each other’s mouths. 
    I said nothing about a grand conspiracy. I said that when you have accusations of an owner making bribes to his coach to throw games AND he and the league have multiple hands in gambling venture pockets it looks bad.  Bad looks opens the door to doubts. 

That I certainly agree with sorry for misreading you. While Ross’s alleged activity doesn’t suggest any gambling ties or influences, the mere fact that the league is completely integrated with gambling now makes the bad optics of all this even worse.

[Simon]

< Hue Jackson has joined the chat >

[dorquemada]

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

< Hue Jackson has joined the chat >

 

Alexa, who is Pete Rose?

[Buffalo Boy]

22 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

"paying his coach to lose" = "fix games"

 

does it matter why?  From a rules and legal perspective, it absolutely does not matter why

 

27 minutes ago, MJS said:

If there is any funny business going on, it is by individual teams trying to get advantage over the other teams.

 

Ross wasn't paying his coach to lose because he wanted to fix games. He wanted a higher draft pick so he could start winning in future seasons. It was about winning later, not any kind of betting.

   Vegas lines are created with the understanding that both teams are trying to win.

   Paying your coach to throw a game for any reason is a fix in terms of the above statement. Any wagers made under circumstances other than the above are not fair wagers.

    It matters.

[dorquemada]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

 

   Vegas lines are created with the understanding that both teams are trying to win.

   Paying your coach to throw a game for any reason is a fix in terms of the above statement. Any wagers made under circumstances other than the above are not fair wagers.

    It matters.

 

Also, "Vegas" as an institution, needs for people to have faith that the game isn't rigged.  If it is, then people will just bet with the bookie at their watering hole or find other ways to throw money away like college educations and blue state property taxes