Daboll wasn’t happy with McDermott?

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, finn said:

It's not the volume of calls, it's the judgment in the clutch I'm talking about. I'm not saying he should never punt, but he's got to make the right call in the critical situations. He did it in the Titans game and on the first drive in the KC playoff game. He didn't do last year in the playoffs against KC, and he didn't do it again in the 3rd quarter against KC this year. Both times he hurt his team, maybe even fatally. He's got to improve. 

 

For the last time, no HC goes for it there on 4th down...none.  Heck I know people who would punt that in Madden.  I can't even fathom how anyone can say with any seriousness that the best choice is to go for it there.  We were only down 3 with nearly a whole half to still play.  Ball on their 32 yard line too.  Utterly stupid to attempt a 4th and 2 there, especially since our offense had not yet really hit their rhythm.  

 

The funniest part to me is that I know 100% you would be calling for McD's head had he actually gone for it and didnt get it and gave KC easy gimme points there.  You know that is true too.  

 

You are only playing this hindsight game where you know that the Chiefs did get a score anyway on the next drive to now cry he should have went for it.  But had he done it and failed, you would still be screaming how stupid it was (which would be correct, it is stupid to go for it there) and that it cost us the game giving Chiefs quick and easy points.  You wouldn't be on here going bravo coach, love the ballsy play call.  

 

And honestly, why are you hung up on this one play that isnt the reason we lost?  We beat the Chiefs, plain and simple.  It took an unbelievable error by our ST staff and players plus a foolish defensive scheme over a 13 second period to undo the victory.  Then the loss was cemented by a coin toss.  This fabled missed opportunity by you isnt even on the list of why we lost. 

 

[starrymessenger]

Its possible that Daboll and McD didn’t always see eye to eye. Whether they did or not is probably mostly irrelevant imo, especially now that Brian is gone. What matters more is whether McD and Josh Allen will see eye to eye going forward. If, and I say if, the 13 second episode is at all indicative of the HC’s mindset, inclinations and character (more than just a mistake that anyone can have the misfortune to commit) then I could foresee problems given Allen’s aggressive competitiveness. They aren’t paying McD a quarter billion dollars. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Erik Turner, who seems to know the players and coaches, called it bunk.

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well I think the collapse with 13 seconds was two fold...one the mess up by our ST unit (coach and players) to not make sure Bass knew it was a squib kick in play called.  And two, the confusion and panic that led to terrible defensive alignments called.  And Frazier calls the defense, so I have to believe it was Frazier who made those calls for the formations at the end of the game.  

 

So, I can't say that McD is conservative based on what happened in those final 13 seconds.  Now, if we want to say he failed to get his team to regain composure after a stunning kick out of bounds threw everyone for a loop, that is fair criticism.  Still think Frazier called the D, but everyone on the field looked frantic and unsettled.  

 

Sorry bud, normally seem to be on the same page on most things, but on this I can't fault McD for trusting our defense to get a stop versus putting the ball Nathan Petermans hands, in a blizzard, throwing to scrubs who are slow and cant catch (even when the weather is good).  

 

Still, you had to go all the way back to 4 years ago when McD was saddled with no playmakers and bad quarterbacks to cite that example. So I think that says more about how he is not conservative than it says he is. 

McD called a TO prior to each of the two offensive plays by KC... if he wasn't in on the play calls that's even worse than making the horrible ones. Of course he was setting the strategy on those defenses, he's the head coach and called TOs to plan with his staff. 

[finn]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

For the last time, no HC goes for it there on 4th down...none.  Heck I know people who would punt that in Madden.  I can't even fathom how anyone can say with any seriousness that the best choice is to go for it there.  We were only down 3 with nearly a whole half to still play.  Ball on their 32 yard line too.  Utterly stupid to attempt a 4th and 2 there, especially since our offense had not yet really hit their rhythm.  

 

The funniest part to me is that I know 100% you would be calling for McD's head had he actually gone for it and didnt get it and gave KC easy gimme points there.  You know that is true too.  

 

You are only playing this hindsight game where you know that the Chiefs did get a score anyway on the next drive to now cry he should have went for it.  But had he done it and failed, you would still be screaming how stupid it was (which would be correct, it is stupid to go for it there) and that it cost us the game giving Chiefs quick and easy points.  You wouldn't be on here going bravo coach, love the ballsy play call.  

 

And honestly, why are you hung up on this one play that isnt the reason we lost?  We beat the Chiefs, plain and simple.  It took an unbelievable error by our ST staff and players plus a foolish defensive scheme over a 13 second period to undo the victory.  Then the loss was cemented by a coin toss.  This fabled missed opportunity by you isnt even on the list of why we lost. 

 

Just like I'm screaming how stupid McDermott was to go on 4th down in the Titans game? I said I admire that call, even though it lost the game. And I'm not hung up on one call. I've praised and criticized other calls in this thread. 

 

If you want to jump on my posts, you need to read them more closely. I have better things to do than teach remedial reading. 

[Don Otreply]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:58 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So McDermott is an a--hole to coach under, but a few extra bucks will get coaches to stay? Do I have that right?

You need to introduce more drama, like on a biblical level, to your verbiage, and then I think you will have nailed it, 😁👍

 

Go Bills!!!

[CorkScrewHill]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:21 PM, MWK said:

Could the speculation have been true?

Could it be that the Giants were interested in Daboll but wanted to find out what one of the people Daboll has gone against him thinks about him. Would you say hey we are also considering Daboll for this job - would you get an honest answer out of Flores his competition? Instead you flip it around a bit .. hey we hear Daboll is unhappy in Buffalo .. what do you think about him as a possible OC on your staff - my guess is Flores would provide a much truer answer.

 

I do similar things (though I don't actually make stuff up) while in interviews. I don't ask what are your strengths and weaknesses .. I ask "what is the most difficult thing somebody has said about you, work related, that you later realized was true", and "if i spoke with your previous supervisor they would say all these nice things about you (whatever the person has told me so far) ... but they said .. there is one thing I would like to see {name} work on .. what do you think that would be?"

 

I am not saying that this isn't true, but I think it is far from a far gone conclusion that in the interview process the Giants could have made that up .. never expecting it to see the light of day.  One could argue Daboll could have said something to refute it after it came out .. but is he going to call out his new bosses as liars. 

 

In the end sometimes there is fire with the smoke .. and sometimes there is just smoke .. we will likely never really know which it was in this case.

[longtimebillsfan]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:44 PM, colin said:

im down on mcd right now cuz of the end of the kc game (he either called for that nonsense, or was a bit asleep at the switch and let it happen), but the last thing i want is him to be a coasting palsy guy w the coordinators who just pleases them because they have the talent and not him.  a little fire and a strong stance on things is required.

 

if frazier wants out because mcd breathes down his neck, that's the right thing.  mcd has stepped in and improved the d which is a but of a slap to frazier, and im totally speculating, but i'd bet there was some kind of told you so when ford got the bench, williams got moved, and bates became the starter.  if not a told you so, a bit of a "took you long enough"

So 13 seconds makes you want to go back to the pre 2017 Bills???..........r i g h t.  You should be an NFL gm.  You should be speaking with the Lions.  Sounds like a perfect match.

[TheFunPolice]

To me, it seems like there was some kind of tension on the team this year. 

 

Could be the COVID/vaccine stuff, pressure to win, or just people getting tired of each other. McKenzie's show in the restaurant that was posted on YouTube after the season ended seemed odd to me as well. When made the comment "oh, with that defense, that's how" referring to how the Chiefs went down and scored I took it as a window into some sort of mixup going on.

 

Also when he basically said there was no explanation of what happened and you just do whatever coach (McD) says and that's it it also struck me as odd. 

 

There could definitely be something to all this, but maybe McDermott is just demanding and wants everyone dialed in and some people don't like it, thinking they have "earned" a bit more leeway.

 

If I'm McDermott I remind them they haven't won squat or earned a damn thing yet. When Tom Brady acts like nobody believes in him and he needs to earn his spot on the field after 7 Super Bowl wins maybe McD doesn't want to hear or sense that anyone feels like they have arrived just because the team made the playoffs. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[DrDawkinstein]

Late to this 16 page thread, but here's my two cents anyways...

 

I dont put a single ounce of weight on that blurb mentioned in the Flores lawsuit. Folks complain about their jobs and bosses all the time, even when they are generally happy. There are lots of big egos in the NFL and they often clash. But at the end of the day, these guys are all grown adults who are focused on the same end goal.

 

Even if there hadnt been a single disagreement the entire time Daboll was here, he is still taking the Giants HC job. And on the other side, McD has an eye on Dorsey's development as the OC-in-waiting and has been looking for an opportunity to get him promoted before we lose him.

 

If I had to put money on it, I'd guess that everyone involved considers everyone else a friend and respected colleague.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by DrDawkinstein

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Your clueless if you don’t think McD had any idea what those defensive calls were…

 

I'm not pushing to fire McD or anything crazy like that, but it BLOWS MY MIND that during the long TV timeout between TD and Kickoff McDermott didnt go directly to Bass himself, grab him by the facemask and tell him EXACTLY where to kick that ball. Even more so since we went for 2, and Bass was on the sideline, available to be coached at any moment.

 

Same for the Defense. We called timeouts before each play. McD is directly accountable for what happened. This is literally his job to step in and set exactly what we want to do in that situation.

 

Oh well, on to 2022...

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm not pushing to fire McD or anything crazy like that, but it BLOWS MY MIND that during the long TV timeout between TD and Kickoff McDermott didnt go directly to Bass himself, grab him by the facemask and tell him EXACTLY where to kick that ball. Even more so since we went for 2, and Bass was on the sideline, available to be coached at any moment.

 

Same for the Defense. We called timeouts before each play. McD is directly accountable for what happened. This is literally his job to step in and set exactly what we want to do in that situation.

 

Oh well, on to 2022...

 

McD trusted his coordinators too much in the key moments and it bit him, IMO. 

 

That defense was NOT a McDermott type defense. I just can't imagine it. That special teams play was also NOT a McDermott type call, I also can't see that. 

 

I think he trusted is coordinators to make the calls and it was botched. Hopefully in the future he takes charge in those moments, because it's going to be on him either way. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

McD trusted his coordinators too much in the key moments and it bit him, IMO. 

 

That defense was NOT a McDermott type defense. I just can't imagine it. That special teams play was also NOT a McDermott type call, I also can't see that. 

 

I think he trusted is coordinators to make the calls and it was botched. Hopefully in the future he takes charge in those moments, because it's going to be on him either way. 

 

Yep, that is exactly the time the HC is supposed to step in.

 

We all know the now famous story of Reid telling Mahomes "when things look grim, be the grim reaper". Reid didnt stand in the background not talking to anyone and letting Bienimy handle it with Mahomes. Take control, Sean!

[JaCrispy]

Maybe, McMeathead was too distracted by his own McClapping...

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by JaCrispy

[Doc]

"I heard..." is about as reliable as "my anonymous sources say..."

Edited February 10, 2022 by Doc

[Nextmanup]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:45 PM, newcam2012 said:

Agree. No way is the head coach not responsible for what happened. 

Of course he is!  He's responsible for pretty much everything.  That's how it works.

 

It's the same reason why the captain of a ship in the Navy's career ends the moment his ship runs aground, despite having absolutely nothing to do with the captain himself, most likely.

 

 

 

 

 

[GaryPinC]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:30 PM, ArtVandalay said:

McD called a TO prior to each of the two offensive plays by KC... if he wasn't in on the play calls that's even worse than making the horrible ones. Of course he was setting the strategy on those defenses, he's the head coach and called TOs to plan with his staff. 

Plus, he's no Rex Ryan.  McD is a meticulous details and process guy.  At a minimum, I think the fact he didn't change the defense on the second time out says it all. 

[ChrisWatson#21]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:36 PM, finn said:

Just like I'm screaming how stupid McDermott was to go on 4th down in the Titans game? I said I admire that call, even though it lost the game. And I'm not hung up on one call. I've praised and criticized other calls in this thread. 

 

If you want to jump on my posts, you need to read them more closely. I have better things to do than teach remedial reading. 

I was the only one in my group yelling pre-snap at how bad the decision was.  When you have the better team and better QB you want the game extended not place all the risk in one play.  Common sense.  

[What a Tuel]

9 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

I was the only one in my group yelling pre-snap at how bad the decision was.  When you have the better team and better QB you want the game extended not place all the risk in one play.  Common sense.  

 

The Titans scored touch downs on their 3 prior possessions. There was no indication Josh would see the ball again if we lost the coin toss. (ugh i hate the memories that will bring forever)

 

If you have the better QB, why wouldn't you put the game in his hands and end it right there and then? 

Edited February 10, 2022 by What a Tuel

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Late to this 16 page thread, but here's my two cents anyways...

 

I dont put a single ounce of weight on that blurb mentioned in the Flores lawsuit. Folks complain about their jobs and bosses all the time, even when they are generally happy. There are lots of big egos in the NFL and they often clash. But at the end of the day, these guys are all grown adults who are focused on the same end goal.

 

Even if there hadnt been a single disagreement the entire time Daboll was here, he is still taking the Giants HC job. And on the other side, McD has an eye on Dorsey's development as the OC-in-waiting and has been looking for an opportunity to get him promoted before we lose him.

 

If I had to put money on it, I'd guess that everyone involved considers everyone else a friend and respected colleague.

 

Agree with that last.  The question, though, is would Daboll have taken a lateral move to Giants OC?  I'm thinking No *****in' Way even if he was having scream-and-bang-table sessions with McDermott regularly all season long.   Being the OC for Josh Allen another year (if he didn't get a HC step) has to be a better stepping stone to a HC job than working with Daniel Jones but at the mercy of another HC's priorities and decisions. 

 

I think there's something to the notion that it was a way to pick Flores' brains about his views on Daboll and his offense, as a defensive-minded HC who faced him 6x

 

It's pretty clear that there had to have been considerable difference of opinion during the season.  Starting with last season and then after the Pittsburgh debacle, McDermott wanted more running game to keep the opponent's D from keying on the passing game and choking it.  Daboll likely felt that his "spread offense" plan would have worked if Allen had been willing to take a few more quick checkdowns and the OL played a bit better, and that he wasn't given the Hosses he needed on on OL to create a better run game, so why call run plays to be stuffed? 

 

The Bills won 4 and barely lost to the Titans with the loss being arguably more on the D, so the conflict simmered down.  Winning fixes everything! 

Then came the Jaguars debacle and I'm pretty sure McDermott not only made it very clear that there WOULD be more run game OR ELSE but (based on what he said in subsequent pressers) started exercising more oversight on the offensive game plan.  He might have pointed out that there are different blocking schemes and run plays than Daboll had been dialing up.

 

Both hypothetical POV have some merit.