Daboll wasn’t happy with McDermott?

[TheFunPolice]

I will preface this by saying that I really like McDermott and what he has done here.

 

But eventually he has to get this team into the Super Bowl. I think he will, but if he doesn't things will start to get hot. 

[Alphadawg7]

53 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Whether coach McD us conservation, passive, aggressive, etc.. It's  subject to interpretation. I happen to agree with your viewpoints for the most part. Your condescending tone isn't needed but it is what it is...Once not up for debate is how Coach McD was grossly incompetent in that last 13 seconds of regulation. You can that aggressive? 

 

Sorry about the condescending tone, but it comes from the irritation of having the constant witching of McD after not just this loss, but any loss.  We went 13-3 last year, and there were fire McD and Beane threads during the regular season after losses.  There were several this year too.  And one of the most annoying complaints about him is being falsely accused of being conservative.  Which is so unbelievably apparent he is not by simply watching the game or looking at it statistically.  

 

This isn't Madden, no coach in the NFL has the pedal to the metal no matter the risks at all times.  It doesn't happen and its never happened at the NFL level.  They still complain even when the so-called "conservative" decision proves correct and we win the game.  Like the poster I replied too...McD played it right, we did what we needed to do to win the game.  A kickoff miscommunication and 13 second defensive brain fart by Frazier changed the outcome.  

 

So, yeah...I admit, condescending tone was present in my post, but that was to prevent me from getting a warning point for really venting the way I want to about the ridiculous claims he is conservative.  Its just factually incorrect that its almost insulting having to read those claims.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

I can.  OT punt in Indy snow game.  We were really, really lucky to win that game. 

 

No disrespect here...I like you as a poster, so really mean no disrespect.  But this is a puzzling example for me.  I mean, did you really just bring up a game where noodle arm Nathan Peterman was our QB.  Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin were our WR's.  And the weather was an unreal blizzard?  

 

A game we won too.  A game where the Colts were doing nothing offensively either, an important caveat as to why you punt.

 

Come on bud, how can you criticize a head coach as "conservative" when his offense is being led by the statistically worst QB in NFL history with an arm weaker than Mac Jones throwing in a blizzard to the fattest and laziest WR in KB and terrible route runner with hands of stone Zay Jones?  

 

Especially since his decisions still led us to a win.  Football is about putting your team in the best position to win.  No one thinks putting the ball in Nathan Pickermans hand in a blizzard throwing to trash is a good football decision.  

 

I mean the wrong decision there would have meant we did not break the playoff drought that year.  It was that important, and his decision worked out for the win.

[finn]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Your posts on here tell me one of three things:  

 

1.  You party too hard and socialize too much during Bills games and don’t pay enough attention to know what’s actually going on.

 

2.  You don’t even watch Bills games.  
 

I know it has to be one of those 2 because that is the only way to explain why anyone in their right mind could see McD as conservative or “wanting to win by 3”.  
 

That is such an utterly absurd thing to say about one of the most aggressive coaches in football who goes for it on 4th down a lot and just fielded a team with the largest point differential in the NFL.  A coach who INSTEAD of tying the game on the last play against the Titans went for it on 4th and 1 to try and win instead.  
 

And why do you say this?  Because he wasn’t a moron and didn’t go for it on the Chiefs 32 yard line in the early part of the 3rd quarter only down 3?   Seriously?  Up til then, our D had been getting pressure on Mahomes and held them to two FG attempts in the previous 2 drives.  No reason to risk giving them the ball back already in scoring position.  
 

You are literally categorically wrong and not a single coach in the NFL goes for it in that situation, and no one in the NFL considers McD conservative by any means.

By all means continue your personal attacks, if your goal is to degrade this board to the level of Chiefs Planet.

 

I think some head coaches do go for fourth and a foot in this situation, with one of the best short-yardage QBs in the game at their disposal and against a team they lost to the previous year in part because of too-conservative decisions. It's the kind of call that distinguishes the great coaches from the average ones. For example, Andy Reid was widely praised for a gutsy a fourth and 1 with a backup QB in the playoff game against Cleveland last year. McDermott is coming along--I was heartened by his fourth-down call against the Titans this year--but he still has a way to go. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

21 hours ago, TBBills said:

It's massive for the rooney rule but that is about it. It isn't massive for McDermott in any way.

 

It isn't going to have any impact on the season... the season will play on.

Exactly TB.  McDermott needs to worry about fixing the Bills defense.  We will not win or play for a Super Bowl until he does.  The offense will be fine w/o Brian Dabol.  We still have a stud named Josh Allen.  And some good pieces around him.  I am sure we will add another WR and RB to try and upgrade especially at RB.  And Dorsey knows the offense pieces that we have.  And Allen is a big supporter.  So I think the transition from Dabol to Dorsey should be fine.  And letting Bobby Johnson go has to be an upgrade, even if we we didn't even hire another O line coach.  Guy was awful.

 

As for all the rest w Flores, good for him trying to blow up the Ivory Roger Goodell tower.  The league has been trending down ever since snowflake Roger came around.  Taking the violence out of the game, especially with protecting the QB has always bothered me.  And suspending players like Josh Gordan repeatedly because he likes his weed is just plain stupid and out of touch w society.  Now good old Roger can deal w the Flores lawsuit.  The Gruden lawsuit.  And all the other messes including Desean Watson and the Washington Redskins, Football Team, and Commanders.  LOL  I wish the owners would just can his ass!!

[Scott7975]

22 hours ago, TBBills said:

You remind me of a guy used to be named "Butch from the Eastside"

 

Peace and Love Everybody

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Sorry about the condescending tone, but it comes from the irritation of having the constant witching of McD after not just this loss, but any loss.  We went 13-3 last year, and there were fire McD and Beane threads during the regular season after losses.  There were several this year too.  And one of the most annoying complaints about him is being falsely accused of being conservative.  Which is so unbelievably apparent he is not by simply watching the game or looking at it statistically.  

 

This isn't Madden, no coach in the NFL has the pedal to the metal no matter the risks at all times.  It doesn't happen and its never happened at the NFL level.  They still complain even when the so-called "conservative" decision proves correct and we win the game.  Like the poster I replied too...McD played it right, we did what we needed to do to win the game.  A kickoff miscommunication and 13 second defensive brain fart by Frazier changed the outcome.  

 

So, yeah...I admit, condescending tone was present in my post, but that was to prevent me from getting a warning point for really venting the way I want to about the ridiculous claims he is conservative.  Its just factually incorrect that its almost insulting having to read those claims.  

No need to apologize I respect your posts and knowledge. Your frustration is valid.

 

I disagree with your take of the last 13 seconds. I don't believe there was a miscommunication with the kickoff. Additionally, I believe the blame goes directly to Coach McD and some to Frazier. In the end, it's the head coach that bares the responsibility. I was a huge McD fan prior to that inexcusable 13 second span. I like Coach McD and overall fit for the Buffalo Bills. The way he talks, walks, and chews gum spells Buffalo to a core. However, I just can't get past those 13 seconds. I'm trying but ultimately his incompetence is a "nail in the coffin" for me. I'm not advocating for a "run of the mill" replacement. If Payton is available I'd love to see that move. Maybe I'm being too irrational and vindictive. With time the wound of McD's blunder might lessen. However, that game will be replayed for years and years adding insult to injury. If no viable quality head coach is available then I'd advocate keeping coach McD. 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect here...I like you as a poster, so really mean no disrespect.  But this is a puzzling example for me.  I mean, did you really just bring up a game where noodle arm Nathan Peterman was our QB.  Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin were our WR's.  And the weather was an unreal blizzard?  

 

A game we won too.  A game where the Colts were doing nothing offensively either, an important caveat as to why you punt.

 

Come on bud, how can you criticize a head coach as "conservative" when his offense is being led by the statistically worst QB in NFL history with an arm weaker than Mac Jones throwing in a blizzard to the fattest and laziest WR in KB and terrible route runner with hands of stone Zay Jones?  

 

Especially since his decisions still led us to a win.  Football is about putting your team in the best position to win.  No one thinks putting the ball in Nathan Pickermans hand in a blizzard throwing to trash is a good football decision.  

 

I mean the wrong decision there would have meant we did not break the playoff drought that year.  It was that important, and his decision worked out for the win.

Yup.  This is the game.  Playoffs on the line and he punted in OT.  IIRC, had the Colts picked up another first down, we were looking at a tie in the best case scenario.  Which was as good as a loss w/r/t our playoff chances.  I was dumbfounded by that call.  Still am.   A Jauron-ish example of playing not to lose. 

[Dr. Who]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

But is that really fair to say about him or any coach?  

 

I honestly can’t think of any example of where he played scared or overly conservative.  I remember a game where we punted late with 3 timeouts instead of trying a 4th and long and people freaked out even though we got the ball back (as intended by the punt and timeout count) and won the game.  Wasn’t conservative was making a decision to give us best chance to win.

 

The NFL isn’t Madden, sometimes you have to make choices to help your team win that aren’t always seen as the “aggressive” choice.  Being all throttle all the time is not the correct approach.  
 

Honestly, every Coach in the NFL will be seen as “erratic” in peoples eyes here.  In fact, can anyone name one that isn’t?  All coaches make choices in game that they believe that give them the best chance to win that are not the more "aggressive" choice.  Lets be real, "aggressive" and "gambling" are cousins of each other, its real easy to cross the line and take unnecessary chances at the wrong time.  Its mathematically incorrect to always choose the "aggressive" choice in every situation.  

I'm not arguing about going for two all the time or ridiculously extravagant fourth down decisions as exhibited throughout the year by Brandon Staley. As folks upthread indicated before me, the 13 seconds debacle sure seemed like conservative, overly cautious playcalling that had the opposite effect from what was intended. I'm not sure if you want to put Daboll's offense on McDermott, but there were weird lulls when we seemed content to run safe plays, eg. involving Reggie Gilliam or the consecutive run plays that frivolously threw away drives in the KC game; also red zone choices that appear to forget that Josh Allen is a dangerous man. My surmise is that McDermott has worked to overcome a native tendency to play it close to the vest. He often succeeds, but in crisis situations, he sometimes reverts.

[PrimeTime101]

I feel like i spent all this team reading through this and I forgot the popcorn and the soda... Jeez...

 

[DapperCam]

On the original topic of the thread (and not the weird turn it has taken), I wouldn't be surprised if Daboll was a little bit fed up here. It's clear that he wasn't on the same page as McDermott during the regular season. He even got publicly called out during a post game press conference about the lack of balance in the play calling, and our inability to run the ball. I also don't think it is that concerning or unusual...ego-driven people at the top of their fields butt heads. Especially considering Daboll really wanted a HC job, his incentives may not have been perfectly aligned with that of McDermott.

[HamptonBillsfan]

8 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Sounds more like sour grapes by Flores.  I wouldn't think that to be true

Flores is flushing his coaching career for this mission to change NFL hiring practices. He thought Bellicek was on the inside of what the Giants were thinking as to the Rooney Rule and who they wanted to hire. Now, Brian is collateral damage in Flores's social justice mission. If you think Bellicek is a conduit for what Brian was thinking than maybe Sean didn't care about Brian going forward. 

[John from Riverside]

I actually think McDermott had a point when he called out Dabs

 

Our former OC was creative and put forth a great passing attack with a Unicorn QB......but there were games this year where if we just could get 1st downs on the ground we could have killed clock after getting a lead and made for easy wins....with less of our franchise QB getting yards on the ground by himself (which I am ok with the threat of....just dont want to see him take the  hits)

 

I dont care how great our passing attack is....winning teams also RUN THE FOOTBALL and they do it with their running backs

[Doc]

Erik Turner, who seems to know the players and coaches, called it bunk.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:40 PM, Peter said:

I suspect that there are a few other people who are not happy with McCoach . . . especially with how our season ended.

 

As I have said before, I do not think that he should be fired, but his seat is a little bit warmer and he will not be given the benefit of the doubt that he has had thus far.

 

It is going to be very interesting to see what happens with the Bills. Thus far, McD has been very fortunate with the strength of schedule and relatively few injuries and (most importantly) a GM who supports him.

McDermott has the support of the Pegulas but if he pulls another bonehead stunt like that 13 second brain shutdown,  he's done.

[Batman1876]

Y’all realize that McDermott has the 2nd best winning percentage in team history right? And has the best postseason appearance rate. You may not like him but there is no one out there who is likely to be any better. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, finn said:

By all means continue your personal attacks, if your goal is to degrade this board to the level of Chiefs Planet.

 

I think some head coaches do go for fourth and a foot in this situation, with one of the best short-yardage QBs in the game at their disposal and against a team they lost to the previous year in part because of too-conservative decisions. It's the kind of call that distinguishes the great coaches from the average ones. For example, Andy Reid was widely praised for a gutsy a fourth and 1 with a backup QB in the playoff game against Cleveland last year. McDermott is coming along--I was heartened by his fourth-down call against the Titans this year--but he still has a way to go. 

 

A ways to go?  You do realize he is amongst the league leaders on 4th down attempts right?

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I'm not arguing about going for two all the time or ridiculously extravagant fourth down decisions as exhibited throughout the year by Brandon Staley. As folks upthread indicated before me, the 13 seconds debacle sure seemed like conservative, overly cautious playcalling that had the opposite effect from what was intended. I'm not sure if you want to put Daboll's offense on McDermott, but there were weird lulls when we seemed content to run safe plays, eg. involving Reggie Gilliam or the consecutive run plays that frivolously threw away drives in the KC game; also red zone choices that appear to forget that Josh Allen is a dangerous man. My surmise is that McDermott has worked to overcome a native tendency to play it close to the vest. He often succeeds, but in crisis situations, he sometimes reverts.

 

Well I think the collapse with 13 seconds was two fold...one the mess up by our ST unit (coach and players) to not make sure Bass knew it was a squib kick in play called.  And two, the confusion and panic that led to terrible defensive alignments called.  And Frazier calls the defense, so I have to believe it was Frazier who made those calls for the formations at the end of the game.  

 

So, I can't say that McD is conservative based on what happened in those final 13 seconds.  Now, if we want to say he failed to get his team to regain composure after a stunning kick out of bounds threw everyone for a loop, that is fair criticism.  Still think Frazier called the D, but everyone on the field looked frantic and unsettled.  

3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Yup.  This is the game.  Playoffs on the line and he punted in OT.  IIRC, had the Colts picked up another first down, we were looking at a tie in the best case scenario.  Which was as good as a loss w/r/t our playoff chances.  I was dumbfounded by that call.  Still am.   A Jauron-ish example of playing not to lose. 

 

Sorry bud, normally seem to be on the same page on most things, but on this I can't fault McD for trusting our defense to get a stop versus putting the ball Nathan Petermans hands, in a blizzard, throwing to scrubs who are slow and cant catch (even when the weather is good).  

 

Still, you had to go all the way back to 4 years ago when McD was saddled with no playmakers and bad quarterbacks to cite that example. So I think that says more about how he is not conservative than it says he is. 

[finn]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

A ways to go?  You do realize he is amongst the league leaders on 4th down attempts right?

It's not the volume of calls, it's the judgment in the clutch I'm talking about. I'm not saying he should never punt, but he's got to make the right call in the critical situations. He did it in the Titans game and on the first drive in the KC playoff game. He didn't do last year in the playoffs against KC, and he didn't do it again in the 3rd quarter against KC this year. Both times he hurt his team, maybe even fatally. He's got to improve. 

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

So the head coach with a defensive background had no say in the defense that was called in the final moments of a playoff game.....after calling time outs on both plays

 

I could see if the first play and the second play were different but they were the exact same defense on both plays 

Agree. No way is the head coach not responsible for what happened.