Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Albany,n.y.]

I just saw Hue Jackson on CNN.  He claims the Browns got rid of players as part of a tanking plan.  He keeps saying he was against that & even complained to Goodell.  He lost me when he claimed it was racist to be able to try to win with what they left him.  What part of a rebuild doesn't he understand?  What did he expect when he signed with Cleveland and had Josh McCown as his QB with Cody Kessler and Charlie Whitehurst?  Then the next year he had Kizer, Hogan & Kessler as his QBs. 

   

Funny, I remember the 2017 Bills who also gutted the team.  They were a little better at QB with Taylor, but they also had Peterman & Webb on the depth chart.  The roster wasn't very good & they made the playoffs.  

 

I've had a pretty low opinion of Jackson ever since the Browns were on Hard Knocks & just about everyone who watched it was left wondering: How is this guy a head coach in the NFL?  I thought he got a raw deal in Oakland, but once I saw him on Hard Knocks I understood why he was 1 & done with the Raiders.  

[bobobonators]

1 hour ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

 

Hey Harry, thanks for reading the post. This is good info. NYT blocks me from reading the article, but I did manage to see the tagline was from February, 2022. Please verify.

 

80% of Hondurans self ascribe themselves as mesitzo or Latino and only 3% claim being black or Afro-Honduran. It is odd how Flores, the son of Honduran immigrants, seemed to enjoy the praise of being the 3rd Latino HC in NFL history in 2019 in Latino heavy Miami, but now claims to be black in woke America in 2022 when he perceives a firing/hiring injustice.

 

How did that happen?

My parents are from Spain. Im ethnically hispanic in this country, but

racially white. 
 

This country has a hard-on for classifying people. My parents never knew they were hispanic until they came here. Being from Spain, they simply considered themselves european and white. We like our subcategories and creating dozens of boxes that very few people can neatly fit into anymore. 
 

Latino and Hispanic arent a race. Flores is ethnically Latino/Hispanic and racially black. So in short, hes both. 
 

Its more nuanced than black/white unfortunately. And Flores isnt double-dipping. It simply is what it is. 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I understand.

 

But my post was dealing with if NFL HC hires are "systemically racist" based on the definition by the guy that invented CRT which is included in my post.

 

That's how we judge things now.  Death penalty is racist cuz 41% are Black while only 14% of the population.  There are only 4 Black CEOs in Fortune 500 while Blacks are 14% of the population.

 

Etc.

 

 

Your death penalty example is bad. There is a real talking point around who gets the death penalty and when. It’s been some time since I have done work on it. But something wild like 80% or 90% of defendants in murder cases with white victims get the death penalty compared to 30% of minority. Or around there. 
 

There is also a very serious issue of sentencing duration, probation and incarceration rates between white and minority offenders for the same crimes. 
 

There may be some overlap between the two points. But I’m not aware of any of that data. You or others you have spoken to on the other side of the issue may be conflating both problems.  

Edited February 5, 2022 by Mango

[cgg716]

4 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

This is what a PC NFL looks like. 

 

I believe the overwhelming majority couldn't care less about race, they care about championships. The only colord they really care about are Silver Lombardi's and green cash flow. 

 

There's nothing racist about firing a guy who has a losing record after 3 years. For Pete's sake the hired him and kept him around for 3 years. 

 

Everyone has known the Rooney Rule is just a technicality that they are forced to check if their front runner isn't of color.  The NFL created these sham interviews on their own. 

 

I don't want to hear Flores talking about integrity, if had a single ounce, he would have resigned the second he was asked to tank for money, which leads us to something most people already know....***** teams tank on purpose for better draft picks. 

 

The only thing shocking to me is another person playing the race card after the fact. 

 

His career is most likely over and it has everything to do with the fact he is now a liability, not an asset. 

Actually he did do what a man with integrity would do in that situation. Not tank, and not abandon his players 

[SoTier]

 

12 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

This is what a PC NFL looks like. 

 

I believe the overwhelming majority couldn't care less about race, they care about championships. The only colord they really care about are Silver Lombardi's and green cash flow. 

 

There's nothing racist about firing a guy who has a losing record after 3 years. For Pete's sake the hired him and kept him around for 3 years. 

 

Everyone has known the Rooney Rule is just a technicality that they are forced to check if their front runner isn't of color.  The NFL created these sham interviews on their own. 

 

I don't want to hear Flores talking about integrity, if had a single ounce, he would have resigned the second he was asked to tank for money, which leads us to something most people already know....***** teams tank on purpose for better draft picks. 

 

The only thing shocking to me is another person playing the race card after the fact. 

 

His career is most likely over and it has everything to do with the fact he is now a liability, not an asset. 

 

"I believe the overwhelming majority couldn't care less about race, they care about championships. The only colord they really care about are Silver Lombardi's and green cash flow. "

 

Billionaires can't be racists?  or misogynists?  or religious bigots?  or crooks?  Really?

 

"His career is most likely over and it has everything to do with the fact he is now a liability, not an asset."

 

If the majority of owners really don't care about race but championships, then why is Flores "a liability"?   He's proven to be a good coach who can get his players to produce above their talent level.  How is that a liability in your supposed color-blind NFL?

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

"I believe the overwhelming majority couldn't care less about race, they care about championships. The only colord they really care about are Silver Lombardi's and green cash flow. "

 

Billionaires can't be racists?  or misogynists?  or religious bigots?  or crooks?  Really?

 

"His career is most likely over and it has everything to do with the fact he is now a liability, not an asset."

 

If the majority of owners really don't care about race but championships, then why is Flores "a liability"?   He's proven to be a good coach who can get his players to produce above their talent level.  How is that a liability in your supposed color-blind NFL?

 

 

 

 

I’m dying to know if you’re an employer or an employee?

[JaCrispy]

10 hours ago, bobobonators said:

My parents are from Spain. Im ethnically hispanic in this country, but

racially white. 
 

This country has a hard-on for classifying people. My parents never knew they were hispanic until they came here. Being from Spain, they simply considered themselves european and white. We like our subcategories and creating dozens of boxes that very few people can neatly fit into anymore. 
 

Latino and Hispanic arent a race. Flores is ethnically Latino/Hispanic and racially black. So in short, hes both. 
 

Its more nuanced than black/white unfortunately. And Flores isnt double-dipping. It simply is what it is. 

Nobody practices dividing people with identity politics like the great US of A...

 

I can go to any African nation and, because I am light skinned, they would consider me white...But here, I am an “oppressed” black man, who happens to own a house and two cars, and is living the American dream...Lol...Oh yah, and if I disagree that I am oppressed, then I’m not really black anymore, but actually a white supremacist...🤣🤣🤣

 

If you ever wanna know what’s really destroying this nation, look no further than this type of psychological warfare that seeks to divide the country, along color lines, instead of bringing people together...👍

Edited February 5, 2022 by JaCrispy

[harryS]

10 hours ago, bobobonators said:

My parents are from Spain. Im ethnically hispanic in this country, but

racially white.  This country has a hard-on for classifying people. My parents never knew they were hispanic until they came here. Being from Spain, they simply considered themselves european and white.

 

Okay, but this post is ironic because without Spain (and Portugal), the hispanic/latino classification wouldn't even exist.  (The root word for "hispanic" btw, is Hispania, what the Romans called the Iberian peninsula where Spain and Portugal reside).

 

See, what happened is this.  Way back when, your ancestors from Spain -- great men that I admire -- set out to conquer, colonize, and civilize what we now know as Latin America.  In the process of doing this, Spain (and Portugal) spread their seed/genetics, their language, and their religion (Catholicism) to the populations of these countries.  So now, people from those Spanish-speaking countries are classified as "hispanic" / "latino".  In that way, Spain is the arch-hispanic country.  They started it all.

[papazoid]

tanking is not worth it !!

 

take the browns....they tanked at least two years in a row.....resulting in them getting the #1 overall pick twice

 

how'd that work out for them ???  NOT  SO  GOOD !!....lol

 

i am absolutely against a draft lottery.....it hinders PARITY

 

the advantages of parity far outweigh the possible disadvantages of tanking

 

one of the main reasons the NFL is so great is PARITY

 

the NBA & NHL have a draft lottery......do they have parity ??.....heck NO

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I mean at the time Dolphins had a lot of picks and Brady seemingly attracted a bunch of FA to Tampa. Also keep in mind there was a kind of getting one over on Belichick feel to the whole thing starting out, going to a division rival would have been in line with that.

 

15 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

No promise he would have lost in Miami.

 

If he signs there...does Gronk come back? Does he still gets Antonio Brown? Brady was reportedly heavily influencing Fournette to sign there. The defense wasn't terrible. They already had Parker and with Brady, Geiseki would have likely been a factor. Draft picks may have been spent different. 

 

It's a lot more to factor into the equation.

 

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

True, maybe he wanted billionaire avocado smoothies instead of millionaire ones.  Still sounds like interest.  And Flores refusing to meet with him killed any chance of them landing him. 

 

 

There's no way Brady looks at the rosters of Tampa Bay and Miami and even sniffs hard at Miami 2 years ago.  He picked a team that was a Brady away form a SB.  He, like everyone else, knew that was not Miami.

 

Brady got one over on BB by walking onto another team and winning a SB in year 1. 

 

Flores not being on the boat only meant there would be more avocado for Tommy.  It wasn't a deal breaker because there was no way he was going to Miami.  He could have simply talked to Flores when it was "legal" to do so and indicated any interest in the Dolphins.  He clearly didn't.

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

There's no way Brady looks at the rosters of Tampa Bay and Miami and even sniffs hard at Miami 2 years ago.  He picked a team that was a Brady away form a SB.  He, like everyone else, knew that was not Miami.

 

Brady got one over on BB by walking onto another team and winning a SB in year 1. 

 

Flores not being on the boat only meant there would be more avocado for Tommy.  It wasn't a deal breaker because there was no way he was going to Miami.  He could have simply talked to Flores when it was "legal" to do so and indicated any interest in the Dolphins.  He clearly didn't.

Again, there's no way of knowing how the Dolphins roster shakes out if Brady signs. Your point is based on nothing but speculation of what someone else would think in a given moment. 

 

Now if we want to speculate...cool. My speculation was the Brady did NOT believe they were just him away from a Super Bowl. That's why he recruited Gronk when they had 2 good TEs in place. That's why he lobbied for Antonio Brown when they already had Evans and Godwin in place. That's why he was heavy in recruiting Fournette.  He signed before they drafted Wirfs who solidified their oline.

 

It's easy to speculate he would have done the same in Miami. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Again, there's no way of knowing how the Dolphins roster shakes out if Brady signs. Your point is based on nothing but speculation of what someone else would think in a given moment. 

 

Now if we want to speculate...cool. My speculation was the Brady did NOT believe they were just him away from a Super Bowl. That's why he recruited Gronk when they had 2 good TEs in place. That's why he lobbied for Antonio Brown when they already had Evans and Godwin in place. That's why he was heavy in recruiting Fournette.  He signed before they drafted Wirfs who solidified their oline.

 

It's easy to speculate he would have done the same in Miami. 

 

 

My point is based on the rosters before he joined and the obvious fact that Brady chose Tampa. Miami with Flores and Chad O'Shea wouldn't be an attractive combo to Brady, given the choice of Arians and Leftwich and Todd Bowles.  Plus they had 2 of the best WR in the game at the time as well as a solid TE in Brate and OJ Howard. Plus Perriman.  Ronald Jones had over 1000 yards from scrimmage.  Miami had one RB with 200 yards--Fitzy was their rushing leader with only 243.  They had 1 receiver with over 600 yards.  Yeah they had Gesicki but they alos had Nick O'leary playing 7 games.  No one, Brady especially, is going to look at those 2 rosters and coaching staffs and say, yeah, Brady might go to Miami over Tampa.

 

 

Going on a boat ride was likely a courtesy for having been invited.  If he thought Miami was had any chance for a SB, even if he brought along Gronk, AB (who was basically WR4/5 for Tampa in 2020), Brady would have chosen Miami.

 

He didn't, so he didn't.  

[YoloinOhio]

“Without merit” but better make sure I guess

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Meanwhile.......SASHI IS BACK IN THE LEAGUE!!!

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33217910/sashi-brown-leaves-nba-washington-wizards-join-front-office-nfl-baltimore-ravens-sources-say

 

lol

[Bobby Hooks]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

"I believe the overwhelming majority couldn't care less about race, they care about championships. The only colord they really care about are Silver Lombardi's and green cash flow. "

 

Billionaires can't be racists?  or misogynists?  or religious bigots?  or crooks?  Really?

 

"His career is most likely over and it has everything to do with the fact he is now a liability, not an asset."

 

If the majority of owners really don't care about race but championships, then why is Flores "a liability"?   He's proven to be a good coach who can get his players to produce above their talent level.  How is that a liability in your supposed color-blind NFL?

 

 

 

 

I mean, to be fair Flores has proven that he is a bit of a liability (to the owners). If owners weren’t as keen on hiring him before for whatever reason. Now you know he’ll actually sue you or potentially cause a media firestorm if he thinks he’s been wronged. 
 

Not saying he’s right or wrong with how he’s chosen to handle the situation, but if an owner was hiring with racial bias before, I don’t see how this situation changes his mind after this situation. 
 

Again, I actually thought Flores was wronged by being fired, and thought he’d be hired right away. I’m just confused what this is supposed to help in regards to dug in owners. This will only serve to have then dig in even deeper in the future, imo. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Bobby Hooks

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Nobody practices dividing people with identity politics like the great US of A...

 

I can go to any African nation and, because I am light skinned, they would consider me white...But here, I am an “oppressed” black man, who happens to own a house and two cars, and is living the American dream...Lol...Oh yah, and if I disagree that I am oppressed, then I’m not really black anymore, but actually a white supremacist...🤣🤣🤣

 

If you ever wanna know what’s really destroying this nation, look no further than this type of psychological warfare that seeks to divide the country, along color lines, instead of bringing people together...👍

 

Perhaps people who have black ancestry and appear black, instead of "passing" as you apparently can, may have a different viewpoint about what's dividing this country.  I think a full-blown discussion of racism, racial politics, and identity politics is beyond the scope here.  Keep it to PPP where if I'm not mistaken, you are a regular.

 

I'll just point to the 18 year study linked above that actually followed the careers of 1,200 assistant coaches in the NFL - and calculated, based on a large data base, that white assistant coaches were 144x more likely to be promoted.  They tried to account for every variable they could think of (age, playing experience, position coached, etc) and the disparity still existed.

 

You really can't anecdote that study away with your material success, any more than I could anecdote that study into existence with stories from a couple very wealthy black people who have experienced (themselves and family) what appear to be different treatment based upon skin color.
 

PS: post with link to article about study

link to request study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314583797_Racial_Disparity_in_Leadership_Performance-Reward_Bias_in_Promotions_of_National_Football_League_Coaches

 

[TheFunPolice]

Hue Jackson came right out last night and said unequivocally that he was never offered money to lose.

 

So his story has already changed.

 

As far as a solution? Incentivize hiring a minority HC.

 

They're doing that now but it's backwards. The team who loses the coach is rewarded. Instead, reward the hiring team.

 

1st round pick for a team that hires minority HC. If the goal is to increase the number of minority HC that will do it. 

 

If I'm the Saints I can either hire Bienemy, who comes with pick #33, or whoever recently had lunch with Sean Mcvay. It could tip the scales. 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Dr. Who]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

Hue Jackson came right out last night and said unequivocally that he was never offered money to lose.

 

So his story has already changed.

Yeah, but will the folks who find the initial corroborating evidence useful going to allow him to retract? Maybe this is just caving to NFL pressure? You can always find your way around inconvenient facts in order to secure a favored interpretation if you nuance things sufficiently.

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Yeah, but will the folks who find the initial corroborating evidence useful going to allow him to retract? Maybe this is just caving to NFL pressure? You can always find your way around inconvenient facts in order to secure a favored interpretation if you nuance things sufficiently.

 

Just NFL pressure, or Hue being Hue? 

 

He's always been a guy who talks a huge game.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

 

Just NFL pressure, or Hue being Hue? 

 

He's always been a guy who talks a huge game.

Oh, character is destiny. The ancients knew that. All I was attempting to say is that those who found his initial testimony useful for building an argument will still find it useful. They'll simply finesse the justification for using what he said.