Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Wow. What a terrible unjustified take. 

 

Do your own research.

 

Note that I'm in no way supporting Flores contention about the interview.

But Elway had a Party Hearty reputation for giving his liver a workout as a player and onward.

There are all sorts of Youtube clips and stories out there.

[muppy]

3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You seem Mupset about this---why?

 

It seems to me that lots of folks are weighing in on the merits of the case based on the filing of the complaint.  I'm not a lawyer, but I do know that the last place you may want to look for truth and an accurate accounting of the facts is in a summons and complaint.   That's not to say that every single thing contained in the complaint is not 100% accurate, but 'racial overtone all over' it seems a stretch at this point, Mup.  

 

Have you seen the movie Grease, Muppy?  I feel like we're at the point where the tough chick, Rizzo, is concerned she might be pregnant, tells her friend in the bathroom to keep in on the down-low, the friend spills the beans and by the time Riz gets back to the car, everyone knows and likely has an opinion on the situation.  SPOILER ALERT:  Don't read this next part if you haven't seen the movie or lived in a communist bloc country prior to the 1978 release of said film, up to, including and through this post.  Rizzo wasn't pregnant, she wasn't pregnant at all.  Easy?  Perhaps.  But let's not judge.  

 

I've lost track of how many people I have interviewed over the years, but it's more than 200 I would think.  While I never had any formalized training on the psychology of interviewer/interviewee dynamics, I worked at one point for a large, well known company, and talent acquisition was a regular part of the job (we called it "hiring people").     I've been wondering about two specific things since the news broke:

• I've wondered how well BF would have performed in the most recent spate of interviews.  It seems to me that if the allegations in his suit are true, he was carrying an awful lot of baggage around,  and given the opportunity to open up and share heartache and pain, some folks do that in a big way.  He was upset with the Broncos, upset with the Dolphins, upset with the Giants, upset at being asked to tank, his integrity impugned with offers of cash to lose--and on some level, he must have been at least moderately conflicted knowing he was offered cash to tank by the owner of the team, said nothing about it, and got the boot a short time later;
• This one is a stretch, admittedly, but part of the interview technique we used to use in the olden days involved putting people in stressful situations  to see how they might react.  While the Broncos have indicated that BF is not being truthful about their process, a part of me wonders if creating an uncomfortable situation might have been part of the plan to see how he handled it.  

 

When all is said and done, I'm disappointed.  My own dopey fandom had me thinking Flores was a good coach, tough dude and that he likely would land on his feet rather quickly with another gig.  I don't see the "he had two winning seasons" or "look how they finished!" arguments as obvious indicators he should be retained, but whatever, I'm just a fan.  I do believe his journey has followed that of other hot coordinators who didn't deliver fast enough in a 'ya better be quick about it' league.   

 

 

Hey Leo always great to read you. I have a personal interest in a story like this because Im married to a hispanic and belong to a black southern baptist church which mean my Pastor is black as is 90% of the congregation I consider my church family FAMILY.. There is a quote that comes to mind said by Dr Martin Luther King  "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."......the fact that people are still at times prejudged based on their skin color really makes me upset.  That is what set me off...the even implication that someone would question Mr Flores  and disparage him due to HIS skin color. I would rather his skin color be irrelevant but I realize Im a Dreamer matey. Maybe THAT won't be brought up, that he is not white...as if that should have any bearing on the veracity of his statement. The racial overtones probably wasnt my best choice of words......The rules that dictate that mandated interviews be done solely based on skin color is IMO an attempt to open doors that may not be opened otherwise for minorities. Im sad that is needed Leo. Im not trying to judge the merits of the complaint or case just that the race issue IS involved........thats what I meant and it was more a personal vent than based on this specific cases facts.  Lets wait and see what happens. I refuse to count my chickens before they are hatched 

 

sincerely muppadoodle doooooo 🙂

 

lol-m

Edited February 4, 2022 by muppy

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Mr. WEO]

Flores is totally exposed to a suit from Elway.  What a dumb move.  

[harryS]

18 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The NFL is driven 100% by merit/winning.  The reason the league is 450% overrepresented by minorities in the players ranks is because they give teams the best chance to win.  The same decision makers who pick minorities to play and pay them millions of dollars at 450% time their representation in the population, don't likely turn around and select coaches they think are more likely to lose than the alternatives because of their race.  The concept is absurd on its face. 

 

To be clear, I don't think there's a problem with minority hiring in the NFL.  (I do support Flores because I think he was getting railroaded by Ross, and I additionally believe his accusations against Ross).  But if there were a problem, the Rooney Rule seems to suck at addressing it.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

"After we interviewed six exceptional and diverse candidates, the decision on who we would hire as head coach was made on the evening of January 28, one day after Mr. Flores spent an entire day in our offices going through his second interview for the position, meeting with ownership and other staff members, and receiving a tour of our facility. (See the itinerary below). There is additional concrete and objective evidence to substantiate we did not make our decision until the evening of the 28th."

 

This is what will derail Flores's claim. The Giants will have every one who was involved in this process give the same account regarding how and when the final decision was made--they saved their receipts.  All Flores has is a text from BB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Quote

After we interviewed six exceptional and diverse candidates, the decision on who we would hire as head coach was made on the evening of January 28, one day after Mr. Flores spent an entire day in our offices going through his second interview for the position, meeting with ownership and other staff members, and receiving a tour of our facility. (See the itinerary below). There is additional concrete and objective evidence to substantiate we did not make our decision until the evening of the 28th.

 

The allegation that the Giants' decision had been made prior to Friday evening, January 28, is false. And to base that allegation on a text exchange with Bill Belichick in which he ultimately states that he "thinks" Brian Daboll would get the job is irresponsible. The text exchange occurred the day before Coach Daboll's in-person interview even took place. Giants' ownership would never hire a head coach based only on a 20-minute zoom interview, which is all that Mr. Daboll had at that point.

 

In addition, Mr. Belichick does not speak for and has no affiliation with the Giants. Mr. Belichick's text exchange provides no insight into what actually transpired during our head coaching search.

 

Welp, Then.

12 minutes ago, harryS said:

To be clear, I don't think there's a problem with minority hiring in the NFL.  (I do support Flores because I think he was getting railroaded by Ross, and I additionally believe his accusations against Ross).  But if there were a problem, the Rooney Rule seems to suck at addressing it.

 

HA!  If both sides of an issue agree....there is generally something to it.

 

I think there's a problem with minority hiring in the NFL, at the level of coordinators and HC.  AND I think the Rooney Rule seems to suck at addressing it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

The NFL is driven 100% by merit/winning.  The reason the league is 450% overrepresented by minorities in the players ranks is because they give teams the best chance to win.  The same decision makers who pick minorities to play and pay them millions of dollars at 450% time their representation in the population, don't likely turn around and select coaches they think are more likely to lose than the alternatives because of their race.  The concept is absurd on its face. 

 

I dunno about that 450x representation in the population figure, but let it pass.

 

As for the bolded, I don't think that's what happens.  I don't think that's what most people believe happens.  I don't think NFL owners and senior executives are by and large racists who explicitly believe black coaches are less capable, either.  But that doesn't mean there isn't racial bias baked into the selection process inadvertently.

 

I put up some of my thoughts on what happens earlier in the thread.

 

[FireChans]

Lol GL with ur interview with the Texans Brian. 
 

Will it be a national news story when they hire literally anyone besides this dude after this debacle?

[716er]

54 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Wow. What a terrible unjustified take. 

The NFL is driven 100% by merit/winning.  The reason the league is 450% overrepresented by minorities in the players ranks is because they give teams the best chance to win.  The same decision makers who pick minorities to play and pay them millions of dollars at 450% time their representation in the population, don't likely turn around and select coaches they think are more likely to lose than the alternatives because of their race.  The concept is absurd on its face. 

It is not absurd. An owner choosing a staff is quite different than the staff choosing players who give the team the best chance to win.

[YoloinOhio]

Quote

I think there are back channel conversations and back channel meetings that are had that oftentimes influence decisions,” Flores told Jay Williams of NPR’s podcast The Limits. “I think [the Giants hiring process] is a clear example of that. Bill Belichick is a clear example of that. His resume speaks to that. It was clear to me that decision was made with his influence. That’s part of the problem. That needs to change. There needs to be a fair and equal opportunity to interview and showcase your abilities to lead and earn one of those positions.”

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[MRW]

Wow he is burning that bridge

[FarrellsFinest]

On 2/1/2022 at 3:05 PM, Mr. WEO said:

The BS in this suit can be smelled for thousands of miles!  

 

He's really suing because he feels he got a token Rooney interview??  Or is it because he was forced to eat dinner with Shoen?  lol

 

The numbers will easily tell us that nearly every Rooney interview is a sham (the Bills just had one for OC, no?), so there can be no suit since there is no damage here.  

 

If he truly "knew" Daboll had already been offered the job, he certainly was not "forced" to dine, nor did he "have" to give an interview.

 

This only makes Flores, not the league, look bad---compounding his bizarre decision to dump on Tua his way out of Miami.  
 

 

This guy needs a new agent or perhaps adult supervision.

How can anyone say he was given a fair shot if the decion was made before he even walk into the building? I get it you cant tell people who to hire. But this rule was created to give people of color a shot because they didnt even get THAT before. The only time they get hired is when the team is tanking. 

[CoudyBills]

23 minutes ago, MRW said:

Wow he is burning that bridge

As is common with the scorched earth approach, start out believable and just keep talking until you reach the eyeroll point.  He should stop with the yeah, and...just let the case work on its merit.

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

So, Bill Belichick had to influence Schoen to hire a guy that Schoen had already worked with for a few years and (according to Flores) had already made up his mind to hire?

 

Did Belechick also influence Ross to hire Flores for the Dolphins?

 

Did Belechick tell McD what defense to run with 13 seconds left too?

 

Or even worse...DID BILL BELECHICK TELL JOSH ALLEN TO TAKE TAILS???

 

 

 

 

[HamSandwhich]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about that 450x representation in the population figure, but let it pass.

 

As for the bolded, I don't think that's what happens.  I don't think that's what most people believe happens.  I don't think NFL owners and senior executives are by and large racists who explicitly believe black coaches are less capable, either.  But that doesn't mean there isn't racial bias baked into the selection process inadvertently.

 

I put up some of my thoughts on what happens earlier in the thread.

 

So, the league is systemically racist then? Or at least owners maybe? That seems your argument from what you’re saying. “Baked into” are words used in that parlance. I don’t think so myself but am trying to understand your point. 

[MRW]

9 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

As is common with the scorched earth approach, start out believable and just keep talking until you reach the eyeroll point.  He should stop with the yeah, and...just let the case work on its merit.

 

I mean, there's a strong form of what he's saying that would point to a real problem if true, it just seems ludicrous. And there's another form which seems quite likely but makes me think "So what?"

 

If you really want your lawsuit to do away with the concept of "references", good luck with that.

[harryS]

Yeah, if someone who's hired and managed both Flores and Daboll isn't allowed to be a reference and therefore influence the decision, that's just stupid.

 

Stick to effing the Dolphins, Flores.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

50 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Yes…it’s called a Referral, Brian.  Referrals (and I have given them to potential employers for people who used to work for me) do actually “INFLUENCE” decisions sometimes.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, FarrellsFinest said:

How can anyone say he was given a fair shot if the decion was made before he even walk into the building? I get it you cant tell people who to hire. But this rule was created to give people of color a shot because they didnt even get THAT before. The only time they get hired is when the team is tanking. 

 
Even if he can prove that the Giants had actually hired Daboll before his interview (the Giants credibly assert he cannot), there is no basis for a lawsuit if you show up for a job you know has already been taken