Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

David Culley is also Lebanese

I remember when this came out and wondered what team this was. Could be Miami.

 

I can't believe that he was interested in the Dolphins.  They didn't have near the talent on offense he was looking for.

[TheFunPolice]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I can't believe that he was interested in the Dolphins.  They didn't have near the talent on offense he was looking for.

 

Definitely the 49ers. I would bet $$ on it. 

 

49ers were also in on Peyton Manning before he chose Denver and almost signed him, so Brady probably thought they would be interested but they weren't. That probably pisses him off as much as anything. 

 

Plus, YET AGAIN someone wants to go with Jimmy G over him?! 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[BuffaloBillyG]

24 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

 

David Culley is also Lebanese

I remember when this came out and wondered what team this was. Could be Miami.

Little known fact. 

 

Rich Kotite was the 1st Head Coach with Lebanese decent. Other famous NFLers that are in part Lebenese: John Elway, Doug Flutie, Jeff George and Miami Dolphins founder Joe Robbie.

Edited February 3, 2022 by BuffaloBillyG

[TheFunPolice]

I still can't imagine how the mechanics of a coach "tanking" would work.

 

Play it out: coach says "ok I'll tank." But that's the HC.

 

So what does he do? He's got an entire staff of coaching making (comparatively) peanuts who are trying to advance their careers and get that HC job someday. Does he say to them "guys, we're all just going to mail it in and lose on purpose?"

 

So now the OC has the 32nd ranked offense.

the DC has the 32nd ranked defense.

Special teams coordinator has special teams that stink.

 

Plus the position coaches who don't make enough money that they can afford this to be their last stop.

 

So, now the position coaches (if they go along) are basically deciding that they are at their career ceilings, because NOBODY is going to look to hire them when they are on the worst team in the league and their units all stink.

 

So these coordinators and assistants, who could (and likely would) take the hit at the end of the year, because SOME changes would need to be made if they kept the HC, would agree to basically stink at their jobs, get fired, uproot their families yet again just a year or two later, but now have poor prospects of getting another job based on their performance. 

 

For what? So the team and coach that fired them could get a better draft pick and start winning while they're selling cars or working at a HS somewhere in Oklahoma teaching gym class and coaching the OL on the football team?

 

Then there's the players. 

 

Hey QB: we need you to stink and torpedo your career. Then we'll cut you once we draft your replacement and nobody else will pay you anything more than peanuts to play.

 

And it goes on and on.

 

Now, you could just put together a team of practice squad level players and let them play 100% knowing they'll lose anyway. 

 

In that case, lots of teams in lots of leagues have done it openly. But you can't speak the words, I guess I get that. 

 

Now, in the case of Hue Jackson... The guy is an egomaniac who speaks about himself in the 3rd person. He talked a ton about Cleveland having a winner in town, but now he wants us to believe that his laughable W/L record was actually on purpose? 

 

I'm not going to say it's impossible, because the Browns owner is a shady dude, but it just doesn't make sense for Hue (and the GM apparently) to sabotage his own career for a million extra bucks. 

 

NOW, if Hue Jackson is telling the truth, maybe Ross went to Flores and said "hey, let's do what the Browns did with Hue" and Flores told him NO WAY! are you nuts? And that was the end of it.

 

In that case, it's bad, but if we're being honest with ourselves how bad is it? 

 

The same fans who WANT their team to lose for that 1st overall pick to get a QB are really mad when the powers that be try to make that happen?

 

It's not really losing in a sense, because the point is to win big by losing now. The prize of the next Burrow, Allen, Mahomes sitting there vs drafting a tackle at #2 is franchise changing. 

 

So you're not really "trying to lose" so much as trying to WIN by doing that. 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[TableDestoyer69]

Brian Flores: "I was paid to lose"

 

Hue Jackson: "It really happens in the NFL! I was paid to coach the browns."

[papazoid]

the easiest way a coach could tank all on his own would be to switch QB's

 

he can just say we haven't been winning and  he's looking for a spark when he knows full well they have less of a chance winning with the backup.

 

i still say coaches and players will not tank....but anything is possible when all you have to do is compromise one individual....certainly not an entire staff

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Again though, Flores wasn't actually paid to lose. He says he refused the offer. 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, papazoid said:

the easiest way a coach could tank all on his own would be to switch QB's

 

he can just say we haven't been winning and  he's looking for a spark when he knows full well they have less of a chance winning with the backup.

 

i still say coaches and players will not tank....but anything is possible when all you have to do is compromise one individual....certainly not an entire staff

 

 

 

It is interesting that Flores employed co OC's and constantly messed with Tua by taking him out, putting Fitz in, taking Fitz out...

 

Those decisions were widely criticized as counterproductive at the time... Did he actually ACCEPT the offer and now wants to act like he didn't?

 

Because Hue Jackson is basically saying he went along and tanked, if I'm reading that right, making him just as guilty (if not more) because he then lied to his players and put their careers in harm's way for his own personal gain. Again, based on what he seems to be saying. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[H2o]

I'm not saying there is zero credibility to what Flores is claiming, but I do feel that he's salty for numerous things that took place while he was coach in Miami. One of the biggest things I believe that burnt him up was wanting Herbert instead of Tua and being overridden by Ross. It was reported before the draft that Flores wanted Herbert over Tua, but Ross wanted Tua and the pick was made. That's gotta sting a little bit. I also believe that he was likely told to start Tua over Fitz, even when Fitz was playing well as the starter for them. Any time you have a meddling owner/GM that won't let you run your team the way you want then you know there is going to be some animosity. He probably felt like his rep was tarnished to the point that he didn't give a crap and said within himself he was going to stick it to them all. Here we are. 

[benderbender]

Assuming the Flores lawsuit is correct and the NFL is knowingly allowing racist hiring practices, wouldn't the easiest solution be to have the Saints for example offer him a job? Just how much credit are we giving the NFL? They're just smart enough to set up a sham system of diabolical racism, but too stupid to think one step ahead? Hubris is one thing, but avoiding a drawn out investigation and bad press is another. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Returntoglory said:

What if Flores is Lying? 🤔

 

Then the claim that he has witnesses and corroborating evidence won't hold up.

[stuvian]

The only way a coach could execute a tank and not lose the locker room is to say that certain second stringers are going to get an audition to close out he season

[Returntoglory]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then the claim that he has witnesses and corroborating evidence won't hold up.

I understand that. If found that he is lying then he should be banned from the NFL for life.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

I understand that. If found that he is lying then he should be banned from the NFL for life.

 

So if it's found that he's telling the truth, what should happen?

 

9 minutes ago, stuvian said:

The only way a coach could execute a tank and not lose the locker room is to say that certain second stringers are going to get an audition to close out he season

 

I'm not sure about that.  When we complain about the refs, the point that is often made is that a few calls at key times can swing the game.

 

Suppose you have a team that is contending (so the locker room believes in you, they see that they're close) and you make substitutions or play calls that swing the game, at key points.

 

Then you can go back in the locker room and say "men, you fought hard, we almost had them, they just made one more play than us. We've got to do better, starts with me"

 

😬

[bigK14094]

Although they are a business (the NFL), they don't control the firing in each teams organizations.  So, the NFL doesn't have the leverage to force a hire.  And, any "forced" or incentivized hiring would/could bring other lawsuits.  The is going to be i nteresting to watch, I know for sure that the courts are not smart enough to figure it out.  And, its a long way to go to force a team sale......owners who want to sell are not frequent.  Boncs on the block now, and more than one for sale might depress the price.  Not looking for forced selling to happen any time soon or ever.

Just now, bigK14094 said:

Although they are a business (the NFL), they don't control the firing in each teams organizations.  So, the NFL doesn't have the leverage to force a hire.  And, any "forced" or incentivized hiring would/could bring other lawsuits.  The is going to be i nteresting to watch, I know for sure that the courts are not smart enough to figure it out.  And, its a long way to go to force a team sale......owners who want to sell are not frequent.  Boncs on the block now, and more than one for sale might depress the price.  Not looking for forced selling to happen any time soon or ever.

And, if there is a quota in management, perhaps there should be a quota in the player ranks.  Then the NFL can get reverse discrimination lawsuits.  (see Bakke vs the Univ of Calfornia)

[stuvian]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So if it's found that he's telling the truth, what should happen?

 

 

I'm not sure about that.  When we complain about the refs, the point that is often made is that a few calls at key times can swing the game.

 

Suppose you have a team that is contending (so the locker room believes in you, they see that they're close) and you make substitutions or play calls that swing the game, at key points.

 

Then you can go back in the locker room and say "men, you fought hard, we almost had them, they just made one more play than us. We've got to do better, starts with me"

 

😬

I don't think a contending team would dare tank. I think a sub .500 team with a chance to move up for a franchise QB would bother to try

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Little known fact. 

 

Rich Kotite was the 1st Head Coach with Lebanese decent. Other famous NFLers that are in part Lebenese: John Elway, Doug Flutie, Jeff George and Miami Dolphins founder Joe Robbie.

You can't count 'Bolt Neck Elway'.  The Lebanese component was sewn in by Dr. Frankenstein.

Then again, someone else pointed out in the forums, Elway's a direct descendant of my friend Flicka. 🤔

[Cheektowaga Chad]

57 minutes ago, papazoid said:

the easiest way a coach could tank all on his own would be to switch QB's

 

he can just say we haven't been winning and  he's looking for a spark when he knows full well they have less of a chance winning with the backup.

 

i still say coaches and players will not tank....but anything is possible when all you have to do is compromise one individual....certainly not an entire staff

 

 

Switch qbs you say

 

Did flores take the money? Tua and fitz constant switcheroo???

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I don't think a contending team would dare tank. I think a sub .500 team with a chance to move up for a franchise QB would bother to try

 

I meant contending within a game, not contending for playoffs.

 

Look at the Bills in 2017, when we were 9-7 and got into the playoffs.  Something like 5 or 6 of our wins were by 1 score. 

 

If we really believe that 2-3 timely calls by the refs can swing the outcome of a ball game, then it seems to me that 2-3 untimely play calls by the coach or poor substitutions could also swing the outcome of a ball game, but yet the team would still be close and competitive in those games and the coach could use that as motivation and a building block (theoretically).

 

I'm not saying it's happened, I'm just pointing out how (in theory) a coach could subtly tank and yet not lose the locker room.

 

[wjag]

There are lots of tentacles in this story.  Sham interviews, toothless Rooney rule,  fixing games and the Belichick angle...

 

The fact that Belichick new is fascinating.  Can you imagine the deposition?  He's going to frustrate the heck out of opposing counsel.

 

Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that BB new what he was doing and deliberately threw a grenade into this.....  At this juncture, nothing would surprise me..  The slow leak of information over the next weeks and months will be interesting to watch...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Seems to be a pretty decent article deconstructing the various pieces of the lawsuit:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33201180/brian-flores-nfl-lawsuit-prove-systemic-racism-know-claims-sham-interviews-incentivizing-tanking-plus-next

49 minutes ago, wjag said:

The fact that Belichick new is fascinating.  Can you imagine the deposition?  He's going to frustrate the heck out of opposing counsel.

 

The question is, what did he know and from whom?

 

It's possible someone with hiring power on the Giants called Belichick and shared with him they'd made a decision.

 

It's also possible someone with hiring power called him and asked his opinion on Daboll, who worked for him in two stints totalling 10 years, and didn't outright tell him they'd made a decision, but led him to "read between the lines".

 

The difference matters