Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Augie said:

This is interesting and makes me curious. Why would he do the first interview but not a second? Did he not like what he heard? I have to think a second interview is not “a sham”.  But what do I know?  Any insight there? 

 

This is an opinion piece on it. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/why-demeco-ryans-was-smart-and-brave-to-turn-down-interview-no-2-with-the-vikings/ar-AATpzSC

Basically, the author's take on it is that Vikes new GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah has strong ties to Jim Harbaugh from the 49ers days, and that perhaps he had no real chance at the job and was being asked to interview as a Rooney Rule box checking exercise.

 

I'm not clear on at what point Ryans turned down Interview #2, but the Vikings interviewed Giants DC Patrick Graham yesterday, so they have fulfilled the NFL's rule and it's between them and their consciences if Graham actually had a chance at the job.

[ToGoGo]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

No, they hire Black HCs to bad teams as "bridge" coaches.  I read it in the shout box. Like how Denver hired Vance Joseph to "bridge" to Vic Fangio.

 

Interesting. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

6 hours ago, Mango said:

I think the league has a real problem with minority representation at all levels. Black coaches are given a much shorter leash and are required to have more success to maintain job security. The Rooney rule may not be the best solution, but you can't just waive it away. The sport is and has been dominated by BIPOC for quite some time, but the executives continue to be oddly pale. Until you have a better replacement other than "JuSt HiRe ThE bEsT cAnDiDaTe" it is the only real tool in the tool box.

Flores may very well be right here and I am probably side with him. 

But in court this will be a tough one. Unless Schoen put in writing somewhere that they wanted to give multiple interviews to Flores and Frazier in order to give the perception of fairness, he will have a tough time winning this. If Schoen did put it in writing his career as a GM is over before it started. 

I view things like this sort of like redlining. It is most certainly illegal. And it most certainly continues to happen. But the burden of proof needed to prosecute is so astronomically high/avoidable by companies/lenders that it is really difficult to move on legally. 

I think best justification for the rule is in what we've seen in the "follow the leader" approach to hiring coaches. Sean McVeigh took on a team that had gotten first round draft picks year after year and did nothing under Jeff Fisher and even now needed to mortgage the future to get to the big dance dance again. And yet, everyone who shared a cup of coffee with the guy has suddenly been a hot candidate.

 

Owners bring in GMs from successful organizations. These GMs know they are on the hot seat and without any prodding will look for the same model from where they left (see Schoen and Daboll), which is fine...but it keeps people looking for the same surface similarities and what they are comfortable with. They might not see a something new until they are forced to which is the idea behind the rule.

 

Does it work in actuality? Can it work? Those are different questions than "should it be attempted?" 

[The Wiz]

So I'm curious about what would happen if the Rooney Rule worked against the NFL?

 

I don't know the details of the rule to the letter and haven't read through the whole thing but was curious what would happen if every minority coach declined an interview for a coaching position?

 

The only thing I have read is that the organization is required to interview a minority for positions.  If they are unable to interview, is there a penalty?  Are they forced to ask every minority candidate until one finally accepts?  And what happens when someone accepts and the person is a assistant S&T coach going for a HC job and they don't get it?  Same outcome of saying racism?

 

Just a lot of questions that are likely going to come up that won't be answered.

[TH3]

5 hours ago, krf139 said:

2 questions:

 

1. Why did Flores continue working for the Dolphins after Ross allegedly bribed him to lose games? Wouldn’t the courageous thing to do be to resign on the spot and not wait until you were fired to bring this to light?

2. Why did he bother going on the Giants interview if he thought he had no shot?

I love this stuff..‘Murcia Eff Ya…..Instead of opining the on the crap show of poor treatment, discrimination and tokenism Flores and others have had to endure…..Let’s question his story…..Awesome…

 

And people wonder why Flores hit the wall and broke out the flamethrower….he’s had enough because he has actual dignity as a human being

[CaliBills]

My take. right or wrong.

 

Rooney rule was put in place so minorities could have a chance to at least interview.  Because that was the agreement about 20 years ago. I do think the initial reasoning was on good intentions but over time, not so much.

 

Now did/do the Owners and GM's  go in a  head coaching search completely blind and have no idea before hand who they would want. Hell no.  They already have a list of coaches, white/black/mixed that they want to interview.  Then they have to go through the motions to interview minorities to fulfill the rule if their original list did not have a minority.  

 

The Rooney Rule, in my opinion, is almost degrading at this point to both parties.  Teams are just going through the motion as I mentioned and as Flores mentioned.  

 

Maybe conduct interviews randomly through a third party that sets time/days and the interviewee is blacked out or an avatar placed over them in video chat and voice is distorted for the initial screening.   And then based on that interview, the ones selected get to meet face to face.  I know it sounds crazy but it might be the only real chance that race or age isn't a factor. 

 

Imagine if this was every job out there.  Companies would do what the NFL is doing and just having it as a check box. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by CaliBills

[Andy1]

Regardless of the merits of the class action lawsuit, this was a misstep by Joe Schoen or someone else in the Giants ownership. Even if he wanted Daboll, he/they should have kept quiet and let the interviews happen before saying anything to anyone. Daboll should be hoping that he can keep his job and that his contract isn’t terminated by the NFL. Will be interesting to see if the NFL punishes the Giants in any way. Might be a rough way for Daboll to start his coaching career if he gets embroiled in this legal mess. 

[TBBills]

Brady "I am about to set the world on fire with my retirement "

 

Brian Flores "Hold my beer"

[Starr Almighty]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

So I'm curious about what would happen if the Rooney Rule worked against the NFL?

 

I don't know the details of the rule to the letter and haven't read through the whole thing but was curious what would happen if every minority coach declined an interview for a coaching position?

 

The only thing I have read is that the organization is required to interview a minority for positions.  If they are unable to interview, is there a penalty?  Are they forced to ask every minority candidate until one finally accepts?  And what happens when someone accepts and the person is a assistant S&T coach going for a HC job and they don't get it?  Same outcome of saying racism?

 

Just a lot of questions that are likely going to come up that won't be answered.

 

To date it has not been an issue - there has been no shortage of guys willing to interview on the hope of a chance.

 

Even where Demeko Ryans turned the Vikes down, Giants DC Patrick Graham flew on in for the interview

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

My take. right or wrong.

 

Rooney rule was put in place so minorities could have a chance to at least interview.  Because that was the agreement about 20 years ago. I do think the initial reasoning was on good intentions but over time, not so much.

 

Now did/do the Owners and GM's  go in a  head coaching search completely blind and have no idea before hand who they would want. Hell no.  They already have a list of coaches, white/black/mixed that they want to interview.  Then they have to go through the motions to interview minorities to fulfill the rule if their original list did not have a minority.  

 

The Rooney Rule, in my opinion, is almost degrading at this point to both parties.  Teams are just going through the motion as I mentioned and as Flores mentioned.  

 

Maybe conduct interviews randomly through a third party that sets time/days and the interviewee is blacked out or an avatar placed over them in video chat and voice is distorted for the initial screening.   And then based on that interview, the ones selected get to meet face to face.  I know it sounds crazy but it might be the only real chance that race or age isn't a factor. 

 

Imagine if this was every job out there.  Companies would do what the NFL is doing and just having it as a check box.

 

If a minority coach feels it's degrading, don't accept an interview.  As you said, the rule was meant to get them interviews.  There was no guarantee of getting the job.

 

I just don't see what the solution is.  Get rid of the rule?  Force teams to hire minority coaches?

 

26 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

Regardless of the merits of the class action lawsuit, this was a misstep by Joe Schoen or someone else in the Giants ownership. Even if he wanted Daboll, he/they should have kept quiet and let the interviews happen before saying anything to anyone. Daboll should be hoping that he can keep his job and that his contract isn’t terminated by the NFL. Will be interesting to see if the NFL punishes the Giants in any way. Might be a rough way for Daboll to start his coaching career if he gets embroiled in this legal mess. 

 

I don't think Schoen did anything wrong.  Daboll was the target all along.  He knew him well, the Bills offense was great and they needed to fix Jones, on whom they took 6th overall, and Daboll fixed Josh.  There's no racism involved: they just had to fulfill league rules by interviewing Flores.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

33 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

My take. right or wrong.

 

Rooney rule was put in place so minorities could have a chance to at least interview.  Because that was the agreement about 20 years ago. I do think the initial reasoning was on good intentions but over time, not so much.

 

Now did/do the Owners and GM's  go in a  head coaching search completely blind and have no idea before hand who they would want. Hell no.  They already have a list of coaches, white/black/mixed that they want to interview.  Then they have to go through the motions to interview minorities to fulfill the rule if their original list did not have a minority.  

 

The Rooney Rule, in my opinion, is almost degrading at this point to both parties.  Teams are just going through the motion as I mentioned and as Flores mentioned.  

 

Maybe conduct interviews randomly through a third party that sets time/days and the interviewee is blacked out or an avatar placed over them in video chat and voice is distorted for the initial screening.   And then based on that interview, the ones selected get to meet face to face.  I know it sounds crazy but it might be the only real chance that race or age isn't a factor. 

 

Imagine if this was every job out there.  Companies would do what the NFL is doing and just having it as a check box. 

 

 

 

 

 

i also think people misunderstand a key purpose of the rule— it’s to get minority coaches in the door to

help build relationships and expand networks.

 

The problem with the NFL is systemic cronyism. People just hire the people they know. It’s why guys like Doug Marrone and Pat Shurmur bounce around the NFL. It’s why the Bills hire a bunch of Carolina guys. Its why every head coach hires his son. 
 

The rooney rule was designed to help minority coaches develop relationships and hopefully break up the usual suspects. 
 

But, I agree with you that the spirit and application of the rule need to be looked at closer. 

 

[Andy1]

While Daboll may have been the target all along, the Giants should have kept their mouths shut to prevent any leaks. Then there would be no BB text and no issue.

 

I still think Flores is a good coach though and should be hired.

[The Wiz]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To date it has not been an issue - there has been no shortage of guys willing to interview on the hope of a chance.

 

Even where Demeko Ryans turned the Vikes down, Giants DC Patrick Graham flew on in for the interview

Was really meant more as a hypothetical doomsday scenario question but I agree.  I don't think it will ever happen.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If a minority coach feels it's degrading, don't accept an interview.  As you said, the rule was meant to get them interviews.  There was no guarantee of getting the job.

 

I just don't see what the solution is.  Get rid of the rule?  Force teams to hire minority coaches?

 

 

I don't think Schoen did anything wrong.  Daboll was the target all along.  He knew him well, the Bills offense was great and they needed to fix Jones, on whom they took 6th overall, and Daboll fixed Josh.  There's no racism involved: they just had to fulfill league rules by interviewing Flores.

 

Agree Doc 

 

Daboll would help Jones so much. Flores we heard about didn't get along with Tua. Tua needs a patience coach to help development him. Flores as of right now history by Tua is not good. 

[Governor]

1 hour ago, Andy1 said:

Regardless of the merits of the class action lawsuit, this was a misstep by Joe Schoen or someone else in the Giants ownership. Even if he wanted Daboll, he/they should have kept quiet and let the interviews happen before saying anything to anyone. Daboll should be hoping that he can keep his job and that his contract isn’t terminated by the NFL. Will be interesting to see if the NFL punishes the Giants in any way. Might be a rough way for Daboll to start his coaching career if he gets embroiled in this legal mess. 

Yup. Schoen screwed up real bad and Daboll looks like a huge douche.

[Chaos]

When all is said and done, this lawsuit will be viewed as the sham. 

[djp14150]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I don’t speak to old bossss from 5+ years ago. Maybe i’m the exception.

.

 

That’s not how it is in the NFL which is a small career field.

 

think about it this way…

 

in Hollywood when making tv shows and movies. You build connections from past work

in the military on changing assignments over a career of 15+ years if you are in the same small specialty area your paths cross again.

in the music industry to cross paths in production, writing, as well as performing in employment.

 

in professional careers you keep former  contacts in networking.

 

the NFL coaching is a small club.  By keeping contacts is how you get jobs over the course of a career since you are usually fired with the head coach gets fired even if you weren’t at fault.

 

in the NFL look at coaching trees and successful coaches tend to branch out where firmer coaches go to other teams advancing their career.

[djp14150]

3 hours ago, Fan in San Diego said:

Everybody knew that Brian Daboll was the front runner when Joe Schoen was hired as the GM. Maybe something to the effect that it's Daboll's job to lose and Flores would have to walk on water to get the job. That kind of stuff happens all the time. It's not racism. Schoen had his favorite from the get go.

 

 

I agree.  When he was hired as GM by the giants Daboll was the favorite.  Daboll on his own worked earned a head coaching opportunity so it wasn’t a reach to hire him.

 

this Rooney rule have to interview sham interviews have happened many times over the years where you have a retiring head coach or a successful interim coach.

 

thus was not a good example to try and make a stand on.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, Governor said:

Yup. Schoen screwed up real bad and Daboll looks like a huge douche.

 

The Giants could have Thomas McGaughey ST (looking at still with Giants) , Pep Hamilton (possibly looking at as OC) interviewing others as well, DC Patrick Graham all possible minorities . Possibility