Sean Payton on the end of the Bills-Chiefs game

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, Dan said:

All but 2 or 3 losses in the last 2 seasons can be attributed to the defense in one way or another.    We have to find a way with Dabs leaving to maintain the offensive stability we’ve seen the last 2 years. 
 

But more importantly we have to do get better on defense.  Be more aggressive?  Tackle better?  Cover a tight end?  I don’t have the answer... but, I also don’t have confidence that the guy running the defense the last 2 years has the answer either.  
 

This is the off season, IMO, when good teams take some serious looks in the mirror and make the necessary, and often painful, tweaks to the roster and coaching staff to finally get over the hump and become great teams. 

 

1.  Get better defensive players.  Bean has done a HORRID job at this.  Name one impact defensive player he has brought in.  He hasn't  (Tre White predates Bean).  

 

2.  Better defensive coaching.  Even with this cast of average-good (not nearly elite) D players, the defensive we have seen all season (and last) that got exposed numerous ways by good teams has to be changed.  That requires a new DC.  

[DCofNC]

34 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I’m not sure that McD has the self-confidence/courage to share space with a big name badass OC (not that I think Payton would come here in that capacity). And thats why I am very interested to see who gets the job here. I think that and the plan for the draft will tell us a lot.

He definitely doesn’t have the balls to hire somebody that would endanger his job.  The thing is, anybody that brings success would bring him success, unless he loses/has lost the team with his repeated screw ups in game.  The OC should just be in line to move to the next team and he should be good.  Number 1 question, can Sean do his job?  I don’t believe he can, but I haven’t been a believer for some time now.

[racketmaster]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I thought the same thing about being worried that Hill being back there, but in fact, I found out a couple of days ago that he wasn't. He was on the sidelines.

I agree but KC did sneak him out there for a punt return that he almost took back to the house in the second half. It would not have been too hard to get Hill out there late for the return so I could see the Bills being a little concerned about letting him touch the ball in open space. I suppose they could have made a secondary call to kick deep if u saw Hill out there but to be honest just get me to the spot where they have the ball at their 25 and need about 40 yards for a fg try in 13 seconds. The squib could be argued either way but the defenses they called in the final 13 seconds were inexcusable. Hell they could have rushed 2 and literally used the extra 2 defenders to double Hill and Kelce and still left 5 more defenses in coverage. More likely a zone scheme using the 9 coverage defenders should have been called. And we used timeouts to talk over our strategy and still came out with an awful scheme for the situation. Mind boggling to me and it does raise some questions as to whether McDermott is up to the task in the biggest moments. He had Allen continually bailing out his defense and had absolutely no answer for Mahomes all game long. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Agreed.
 

It’s a tougher pill to swallow for me knowing McD blew that game, especially after watching 17 leave his blood, sweat, and tears out there. That just should not happen. 

I hope so with McD, but I’m not as encouraged as you. He was also horrible in last years AFC championship game and had a year to let that marinate and we still saw him bungle it this year. 

Exactly. That wasn’t asking Bass to do something foreign. He’s right about the D, wrong about the kickoff as he probably just doesn’t have that familiarity with what we did all season. 

You're right, no reason to be encouraged until you see him change. The only thing is if Beane and Terry/Kim indicate this ultra-concervative style is not working with our personnel, changes could come.

[DCofNC]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

1.  Get better defensive players.  Bean has done a HORRID job at this.  Name one impact defensive player he has brought in.  He hasn't  (Tre White predates Bean).  

 

2.  Better defensive coaching.  Even with this cast of average-good (not nearly elite) D players, the defensive we have seen all season (and last) that got exposed numerous ways by good teams has to be changed.  That requires a new DC.  

I agree, but I wonder if the coaching isn’t the bigger problem.  McClappy has never had a D-lineman with any major impact stats, is that to say he’s never had that player or his scheme is just soft?  He makes DBs look good, but does he also make the front 7 look bad?  I don’t know for sure.  I can say for sure, the players they have in the roles they have them in on the front 7 are not getting it done.

[Nextmanup]

40 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I’m not sure that McD has the self-confidence/courage to share space with a big name badass OC (not that I think Payton would come here in that capacity). And thats why I am very interested to see who gets the job here. I think that and the plan for the draft will tell us a lot.

I have thought about this specifically as well.  I tend to agree.

 

I think, for this reason, we will not see Doug Pederson as the new OC--too accomplished and strong a personality for McDermott's taste.  (We may not see him for a thousand other reasons too).

 

I fear we will get a more unknown, up and coming guy as a result, one who may well not have previous NFL play calling experience--which I think is a huge mistake.

 

Whoever they hire should be a stud with LOTS of previous play calling experience.

 

I just hope I'm wrong about all this and they go with best man available, and not best man available that makes McDermott feel safe/comfortable.

 

 

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I have thought about this specifically as well.  I tend to agree.

 

I think, for this reason, we will not see Doug Pederson as the new OC--too accomplished and strong a personality for McDermott's taste.  (We may not see him for a thousand other reasons too).

 

I fear we will get a more unknown, up and coming guy as a result, one who may well not have previous NFL play calling experience--which I think is a huge mistake.

 

Whoever they hire should be a stud with LOTS of previous play calling experience.

 

I just hope I'm wrong about all this and they go with best man available, and not best man available that makes McDermott feel safe/comfortable.

 

 

 

McD did hire a former coach in Frazier as DC.  Although, that was a terrible hire. 

[First Round Bust]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

How would the defense know what he is doing??   Overall, imo Buffalo didnt have anyone they trusted to play up on Hill or Kelce.  I said it before I will say it now.  This was the game not having White costed them. White defenses that play and is in position where Mahomes looks to the otherside.  

Mahomes mentioned that Kelce analyzed the D and to look for him, at LOS during cadence Mahomes yelled "Do it Kels do it"  ?

[Nextmanup]

Just now, First Round Bust said:

Mahomes mentioned that Kelce analyzed the D and to look for him, at LOS during cadence Mahomes yelled "Do it Kels do it"  ?

I know hindsight is 20/20, but you would think that when one or more defenders heard Mahomes shout that to Kelce, they would be smart enough to swarm to the guy and maybe even tackle him.

 

I don't expect them to know what was up exactly, but you would think they had an idea it was going to involve Kelce...which they should have been thinking anyway.

 

 

[ToGoGo]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

I have no idea why so many Bills fans are after McD's head for the playoff loss at Kansas City.

 

Yes, he is the HC and responsible for what happens on the field. The HC has some control over his assistant coaches and that usually happens before a game and during halftime.

 

The HC of the Buffalo Bills doesn't call the on field plays for the offense or defense. Those are by DC Lesie Frazier and OC Brian Daboll and it's up to the players to execute them.

 

It looked to me like Patrick Mahomes has Buffalo's number on defense as they put up 552 yards of offense and that 13 seconds left FG should have never happened.

That's on Buffalo Bills DC Leslie Frazier!

 

I would like to see the "all-22" on exactly what the Bengals did in the second half of that Championship game to hinder, shut down Mahomes. 

 

Nevertheless, I'm hoping that Frazier gets a HCing job somewhere... so McD doesn't need to replace him. 

 

They don't know anything. They just want to blame and point and hurt and put people down. It's how they feel a sense of power in their powerless lives. 

 

McDermott has been a Godsend for this team and this city. Something went wrong at the end of the game. My instinct is that Levi Wallace was the one who screwed up on the Kelce play. McDermott and Frazier also likely share blame here, but they also didn't want to throw anyone under the bus. 

 

McDermott has improved at everything his entire career and preaches it to every member of the organization. He is possibly one of the greatest "culture" coaches in NFL history. I believe those intangibles are "over the head" of the many, many low-information posters on this board. Ironically, these posters are promoting a culture of "blame" and "frustration" and want to see "consequences". This is exactly the mindset that leads to losing. What you want to see instead is "growth" and "improvement". That's why McDermott is 1000x the man these posters are. 

[TheBrownBear]

18 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I have thought about this specifically as well.  I tend to agree.

 

I think, for this reason, we will not see Doug Pederson as the new OC--too accomplished and strong a personality for McDermott's taste.  (We may not see him for a thousand other reasons too).

 

I fear we will get a more unknown, up and coming guy as a result, one who may well not have previous NFL play calling experience--which I think is a huge mistake.

 

Whoever they hire should be a stud with LOTS of previous play calling experience.

 

I just hope I'm wrong about all this and they go with best man available, and not best man available that makes McDermott feel safe/comfortable.

 

 

You might end up being right, but that's a lot conjecture right there and doesn't align with McD's history.  Frazier was a former head coach with a long track record as an above-average DC.  Daboll had multiple stints as a playcalling OC.  If anything, McDermott seems to lean on guys with a lot of experience, which may be why we let a promising young coach like Dorsey get away.

Edited January 31, 2022 by TheBrownBear

[Mat68]

15 minutes ago, First Round Bust said:

Mahomes mentioned that Kelce analyzed the D and to look for him, at LOS during cadence Mahomes yelled "Do it Kels do it"  ?

Ok and the defense wouldnt know what he was doing….

[Solomon Grundy]

5 hours ago, Evian said:

"Everything about what Buffalo did defensively is flawed.” -Sean Payton

 

Translation. McDermott and Frazier choked.

Somebody needed to say this!!!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Even if we played those two plays correctly, a team as offensively talented as KC could've still gotten the job done. 

 

Giving them all the green they needed with no resistance is still inexcusable. 

Right I think with it being the chiefs 13 seconds with 3 timeouts becomes a bit more difficult to defend.  People talk about the play to Kelce but it was really the first down play that killed us.  They had the ball on the 40 with 2 chances to get into fg range after that play with all their weapons and they could use the whole field.  Still got outcoached badly though of course but i think if you put the chiefs in that situation they were in after that first play they’re gonna set up a reasonable fg attempt a majority of the time 

[uninja]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I can't comment on whether the Bengals contained Mahomes, or whether he was simply overlooking some rush lanes that were there.  Myself, I think he was pressing and looking for the "kill shot" pass.  I also think he was rattled and his throws were a bit off.

 

There wasn't a rush lane because Hubbard was spying him on every dropback that wasn't a handoff. He'd flood the middle of the field and take away the easy running yards up the middle. Then on 3rd down they'd mix it up and sometimes pressure and pray and it seemed to be juuust enough to throw the timing off. It's not an exotic game plan by any stretch of the imagination, it was just executed well by a very hungry team and another team that seemed to have the wind drop out of its sails at the worst possible time.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, uninja said:

There wasn't a rush lane because Hubbard was spying him on every dropback that wasn't a handoff. He'd flood the middle of the field and take away the easy running yards up the middle. Then on 3rd down they'd mix it up and sometimes pressure and pray and it seemed to be juuust enough to throw the timing off. It's not an exotic game plan by any stretch of the imagination, it was just executed well by a very hungry team and another team that seemed to have the wind drop out of its sails at the worst possible time.

 

Uninja, I understand your point, but I don't believe Mahomes has historically been a great "run up the middle" guy.  The sidelines are his thing.  And just then, down in the red zone, Mahomes scrambled 2x successively to put them in 3rd and 2.   So I'm not sure he had no place to run, certainly not sure on 2nd and 4 from the 4 yd line.  Yes, Hubbard sacked him, but that was after Mahomes had been running back and forth behind the line looking for a pass play and the Bengals line left a huge opening.

 

I'm very frank that I have slow eyes and can't see what's going on well enough from the broadcast film.  Maybe I'll brave the horrid interface and watch the all-22. 

 

But from what I saw,  I don't think Mahomes was looking to scramble.  He was running around the backfield like a headless chicken, confident (or over confident) that one of his guys would work open and he'd have a throw.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Peter King interviews Sean Payton:

 

‘Situational football: Buffalo up three on Kansas City with 13 seconds left and kicking off

 

“A lot of it depends on my kicker. If I’ve got a young kicker I’m not sure I can trust, I will not squib kick. You can’t risk the kick going out of bounds, or being recovered at the 40. I also don’t like trying a pop-up kick to land at the eight- or 10-yard line. I’m not asking a kicker to use a technique, seldom-used, to place a kick somewhere that might determine whether you go to the championship game. I’m probably just kicking the ball deep into the end zone and giving them the ball at the 25, like Buffalo did.

 

“The crime that is committed comes after that. We are playing football still—you can’t be defending the sidelines at all costs, like Buffalo was. You see when Travis Kelce catches that long pass to put them in field-goal range, a cornerback is defending an area of the field near the sidelines he doesn’t need to defend. Kansas City’s got two timeouts left—they don’t need to get out of bounds. Everything about what Buffalo did defensively is flawed. We would play outside man technique with a three-man rush, funneling balls to the middle of the field and contesting outside technique.”’

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/31/rams-bengals-super-bowl-nfl-fmia-peter-king/

 

 

Payton has lost a lot of playoff games he should have won............I don't put too much stock into his takes in that regard.

 

The problem with the Bills defense is that they just do what they do............they can't make broad adjustments for specific opponents.

 

When you average out the back 7 of this defense.........they have collectively been in this defense for over 4 seasons.........an eternity in the NFL...........there is no excuse for them to not be EXTREMELY multiple at this point.

 

Cinci's D isn't as efficient at execution from week to week............but they are known for being very opponent specific..........they basically rushed 3 and dropped 8 with a spy in the second half.     It wasn't anything new either,   it's what Belichick has done to Mahomes in the past.    But the Bills just kept doing what wasn't working.

 

They have a perfect spy candidate in the otherwise useless-vs-Mahomes Tremaine Edmunds.   But apparently these players can only execute what they normally do and get very confused by change.........like the D they played in the final 13 seconds.    Common sense should tell Levi that he's defending air and leaving a huge void for Kelce..........but instead they couldn't think their way thru an unusual situation because they aren't used to changing what they do.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott will have been involved in both of those defensive calls. I agree Frazier deserves some blame but McDermott is deciding strategy there. 

 

As for what the Bengals did - they won up front with 4. That is what the Bills really struggled to do. They played a bit braver on the outside as well with Apple and Hilton. You can't really afford to do that though with Jackson and Wallace, especially when you are not winning enough up front, because of their physical limitations. Added to that Mahomes reverted to his early season form, he was not taking short gains and was forcing the ball. I give the Bengals defense a ton of credit, but part of it was the same thing we benefited from in week 5 - Mahomes was off his game in that second half.  

Do you think Cincinnati changing up their strategy had anything to do with his struggles the 2nd half?

[Solomon Grundy]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Uninja, I understand your point, but I don't believe Mahomes has historically been a great "run up the middle" guy.  The sidelines are his thing.  And just then, down in the red zone, Mahomes scrambled 2x successively to put them in 3rd and 2.   So I'm not sure he had no place to run, certainly not sure on 2nd and 4 from the 4 yd line.  Yes, Hubbard sacked him, but that was after Mahomes had been running back and forth behind the line looking for a pass play and the Bengals line left a huge opening.

 

I'm very frank that I have slow eyes and can't see what's going on well enough from the broadcast film.  Maybe I'll brave the horrid interface and watch the all-22. 

 

But from what I saw,  I don't think Mahomes was looking to scramble.  He was running around the backfield like a headless chicken, confident (or over confident) that one of his guys would work open and he'd have a throw.

Go back and watch 2020 AFC Championship game 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Do you think Cincinnati changing up their strategy had anything to do with his struggles the 2nd half?

 

Yes. A bit I do. But I think he made a lot of bad decisions. I give Cincy a ton of credit. But Mahomes lost that game for Kansas City. And it is the first time that has happened to him in the post season.