Sean Payton on the end of the Bills-Chiefs game

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, Sharky7337 said:

I'm sorry but that defense was inexcusable. Half drunk football fans with 0 coaching experience all over America knew what to do better then that.

 

Cost Frazier any chance at being a head coach again. I don't think he will get another shot now. 

 

I wouldn't want to hire any part of that.

 

At least Peyton gives us a little bit on insight on the kick

Agreed.
 

It’s a tougher pill to swallow for me knowing McD blew that game, especially after watching 17 leave his blood, sweat, and tears out there. That just should not happen. 

46 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

We know it was one mistake after another. Do we need Sean Payton to explain what we did wrong. Sean McDermott has to sleep with it. Hopefully this scar makes Sean more proactive when the stakes are so high. Belichick, Parcells, Payton all know when you can make a move to improve your chances, take the risk. Bills fans will expect that henceforth. 

I hope so with McD, but I’m not as encouraged as you. He was also horrible in last years AFC championship game and had a year to let that marinate and we still saw him bungle it this year. 

5 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

What Payton should know since he had to watch Bills film this year is that the Bills kicked short of the goal line frequently and with considerable success all season.  It's not a seldom-used technique for Buffalo.

 

There was a thread here back in mid-season that discussed the fact that Bass was using a 3 step approach on some of his kickoffs, and the result was drive starts inside the 25.

 

Payton's just wrong on this one.

Exactly. That wasn’t asking Bass to do something foreign. He’s right about the D, wrong about the kickoff as he probably just doesn’t have that familiarity with what we did all season. 

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, racketmaster said:

I would have only rushed 2 defenders with 13 seconds because it does not matter if you get home or not with that little time and with them having timeouts. If Mahomes wanted to stand back there for 11 seconds before throwing so be it. Then game is over by time ball lands. Rushing 2 makes most sense but I could have lived with 3. Rushing 4 on both plays was criminally stupid in that situation. I could care less about the squib because a lot could have happened and Bills likely would be worried about Hill being put back there and getting a big return. 

The idea of rushing 2 is intriguing when time is not on their side. If Mahomes were to burn precious seconds running around or standing like a statue waiting for an open receiver, I can see how the clock could have ticked down to 5 seconds (or less) or Mahomes getting antsy may have fired into a crowd.

 

I believe Frazier/McD or any other coach involved in the final 13 seconds completely forgot that sideline passes weren't the only option for an offense with timeouts.

Or, did one of the players blow an assignment, leaving the middle uncovered?

[Dan Darragh]

7 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

He probably just doesn’t have that familiarity with what we did all season. 

Didn't we play his team this year?  Didn't he review some film for that game?  Maybe he was too burned out to do his homework which is why we scorched his butt.

[TheBrownBear]

20 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Ok, just do it.  I’m sure The Bills feel compelled to let McDermott screw up another entire season before they admit he is Marv Lewis 2.0

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game.  McDermott has now won three.  The last two seasons we were knocked out on the road against arguably the best team and quarterback in the league (certainly the best over the past 5 years).  

 

I don't know if McDermott is the guy to win us a Super Bowl (or multiple SBs) or if he's the next Marty Schottenheimer, but he's already shown more than Marvin Lewis who was consistently choking away home playoff games.  Not sure how he screwed up an entire season.  Seems to me we've won the division two straight years, made the playoffs in 4 of the last 5, and clearly have the best team in the AFC East heading into next season.  You would have to be insane or the gambler of all gamblers to fire a young head coach like McDermott who has compiled the resume he has over the past five years.  McDermott isn't perfect and no one is saying he is or that he should be above criticism, but this year showed us the same could be said for hoodie and Reid or a number of other coaches (including McVay who has found himself as the Super Bowl favorite just one week after blowing a 20+ point lead in a playoff game). 

 

It seems some posters have had a hard on for McDermott from the moment he became coach - even going so far as to consistently criticize his clapping, which has zero to do with his ability as a coach.  I never really understood the backlash against a guy who has delivered us from 17 years in the football wilderness.

[Thurman#1]

 

 

35 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Our defense had to have been the most overrated unit in the entire NFL this year.  They were great when a team was one dimensional (or made so by a quick start from our offense), but it didn't come close to holding up against better offenses and it seems utterly incapable of getting a big stop at critical moments of a game.  In fact, the only time I can remember our defense making a truly big play in the second half of a contested game was Rousseau's pick of Mahomes at the 10 yard line in the regular season Chiefs game.  Other than that, it seems teams were able to get whatever they wanted down the stretch against us in a close game (which is why we went 0fer in 1 score games this year).  Addressing these defensive failures is my number 1 priority in the offseason if I'm Beane and I'd start with a long hard look at Leslie Frazier.

 

Just curious - for those who have followed Frazier's career, is this kind of his MO?  Beat up on weaklings only to become a bottom-5 defense against diversified offenses?  And I get that "good offenses" are tough for anyone to stop.  But we seemingly can't even slow these guys down for the most part.

 

 

I love the way you arrange that. If the defense held the offense to very few points early then it doesn't count because the game wasn't contested.

 

That's not a legit way to look at the defense's performance. It's a way to find the worst possible perspective on it.

 

The defense played very well in most games. There were certainly a few exceptions, and they should be blamed for those. That Colts game was abysmal. But overall they played really well this year, including against pretty solid offenses An awful first half against the Bucs but a great second half. The offense had some awful games too and somehow nobody wants to talk about that.

 

DVOA adjusts for strength of schedule and the Bills D ranked very high there.

 

 

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Fire Frazier

 

 

Almost as nutty as the fire McDermott fruitcakes, one of whom is also in this thread.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Thurman#1

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 hours ago, racketmaster said:

I would have only rushed 2 defenders with 13 seconds because it does not matter if you get home or not with that little time and with them having timeouts. If Mahomes wanted to stand back there for 11 seconds before throwing so be it. Then game is over by time ball lands. Rushing 2 makes most sense but I could have lived with 3. Rushing 4 on both plays was criminally stupid in that situation. I could care less about the squib because a lot could have happened and Bills likely would be worried about Hill being put back there and getting a big return. 

They called it basically the worse it can get other then using a goal line D 

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Yeah, I remember the "Is our defense elite?" thread or whatever it was called.  I mostly stayed out of it, since it was hard to argue with the stats guys, but I never felt that this defense was anything special when it wasn't getting lucky with turnovers or playing against bottom barrel QBs.  Even now, after it's failures were brought to life in epic fashion, someone will likely come defend Frazier by waving a Pro Football Reference team defense stats printout.

Not Frazier, McD.....  There are many here who  will "go to war" defending him. 

[DCofNC]

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game.  McDermott has now won three.  The last two seasons we were knocked out on the road against arguably the best team and quarterback in the league (certainly the best over the past 5 years).  

 

I don't know if McDermott is the guy to win us a Super Bowl (or multiple SBs) or if he's the next Marty Schottenheimer, but he's already shown more than Marvin Lewis who was consistently choking away home playoff games.  Not sure how he screwed up an entire season.  Seems to me we've won the division two straight years, made the playoffs in 4 of the last 5, and clearly have the best team in the AFC East heading into next season.  You would have to be insane or the gambler of all gamblers to fire a young head coach like McDermott who has compiled the resume he has over the past five years.  McDermott isn't perfect and no one is saying he is or that he should be above criticism, but this year showed us the same could be said for hoodie and Reid or a number of other coaches (including McVay who has found himself as the Super Bowl favorite just one week after blowing a 20+ point lead in a playoff game). 

 

It seems some posters have had a hard on for McDermott from the moment he became coach - even going so far as to consistently criticize his clapping, which has zero to do with his ability as a coach.  I never really understood the backlash against a guy who has delivered us from 17 years in the football wilderness.

17 games mean nothing if you lose the last one you play, when the coach gets dominated again in a big moment and pisses away another whole season because he can’t do his job for 13 seconds, the whole season is a waste.   Call him whatever you want, the point is, he’s not the guy to get it done.  He didn’t deliver this team to the promised land, the Bengals helped backdoor him into the playoffs after he choked on the opportunity to do it himself.  Then a worthless season, then Josh Allen put a team on his back and carried them as far as he could 2 times, only to have a ***** coaching performance get him steamrolled out.  Once McDermott is fired and a real coach is installed, we have a chance, until then, his “don’t lose” attitude will be the demise of many more seasons.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

Sal C spoke with Jay Feely at the game and Jay told him he would kick it out of bounds as too many weird things can happen on the kickoff.

 

He also mentioned that during the year the CBs are told to guard the sideline and don't get beat there. He felt that Levi simply reverted to what he was tight and hammered into his head. This also could be part of the execution that was missed according to McD

 

So of interest I think, is the Extra Point show where they brought in Zo Alexander.

https://24343.mc.tritondigital.com/OMNY_THEEXTRAPOINTWITHSALCAPACCIO_P/media-session/3cd1f8b6-066d-40cb-8809-d4474d624e0a/d/clips/4b5f9d6d-9214-48cb-8455-a73200038129/07dea503-a77f-4b13-8c65-a92b003719c6/ffc669b9-a55d-4b59-9253-ae2b010a41fc/audio/direct/t1643386438/EXP_-_How_do_players_feel_about_the_last_13_seconds.mp3?t=1643386438

 

Zo's appearance starts at 25:43. 

 

31:50 on the kickoff, Zo says "the players know what happened, for sure" and "the players know, the players will handle it"

33:34 on the defense during 13 seconds, the host comments on a text from a HS football coach "how do you play outside leverage and give Kelce a free release?" 

 

Zo hedges on being critical saying that there's always a reason and if he asked coach he might say "OK that makes sense", but he says he was surprised, that there are variations on a "loose defense" that they played when he was there where maybe he would be the "joker" and jam Kelce. 

 

Worth a listen IMHO.

 

[TheBrownBear]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

 

I love the way you arrange that. If the defense held the offense to very few points early then it doesn't count because the game wasn't contested.

 

That's not a legit way to look at the defense's performance. It's a way to find the worst possible perspective on it.

 

The defense played very well in most games. There were certainly a few exceptions, and they should be blamed for those. That Colts game was abysmal. But overall they played really well this year, including against pretty solid offenses An awful first half against the Bucs but a great second half. The offense had some awful games too and somehow nobody wants to talk about that.

 

DVOA adjusts for strength of schedule and the Bills D ranked very high there.

"If the defense held the offense to very few points early then it doesn't count because the game wasn't contested."  That's not what I said at all.  I said they played especially well when teams were made one-dimensional.  And sure, they deserve credit for getting an early stop or two combined with the offense for putting teams in early holes.  Complementary football is what McDermott is all about.

 

I think the good DVOA numbers are reflective of the way that the Bills utterly dominated one-dimensional offenses and green QBs (See the Jets and Davis Mills game).  And yes, I agree that the defense, McD/Frazier, deserve credit for devising schemes/plans to destroy those teams where some others failed (See Belichick against the same Davis Mills).  But check the record against diversified/balanced offenses.  Outside of the Pats games and first Chiefs game (when they were still scuffling), it was mostly a struggle - Bucs, Titans, Chiefs, Colts.  We played a ton of TERRIBLE offenses this year.  

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

All but 2 or 3 losses in the last 2 seasons can be attributed to the defense in one way or another.    We have to find a way with Dabs leaving to maintain the offensive stability we’ve seen the last 2 years. 
 

But more importantly we have to do get better on defense.  Be more aggressive?  Tackle better?  Cover a tight end?  I don’t have the answer... but, I also don’t have confidence that the guy running the defense the last 2 years has the answer either.  
 

This is the off season, IMO, when good teams take some serious looks in the mirror and make the necessary, and often painful, tweaks to the roster and coaching staff to finally get over the hump and become great teams. 

 

Some are aiming too low in trying to identify the problem on defense...it's the scheme and the overall play it safe mentality which didn't start with that game.  Being conservative to mitigate risk is, at times, required.  But it's all more of the default posture of the HC and his DC who calls the scheme the HC desires.  Against top competition, trying to get a lead, protect it, and win is not the way in the NFL of the 2020s.    

 

Wholeheartedly agree with your final point that McD take a long look in the mirror and ask himself why he needs the personnel and scheme that he does this off-season.  Their exits in 3 straight playoff games combined with the ascendance of Josh should be enough for McD to see that he needs to evolve and stop holding on to outdated ideologies.      

[TheBrownBear]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

17 games mean nothing if you lose the last one you play, when the coach gets dominated again in a big moment and pisses away another whole season because he can’t do his job for 13 seconds, the whole season is a waste.   Call him whatever you want, the point is, he’s not the guy to get it done.  He didn’t deliver this team to the promised land, the Bengals helped backdoor him into the playoffs after he choked on the opportunity to do it himself.  Then a worthless season, then Josh Allen put a team on his back and carried them as far as he could 2 times, only to have a ***** coaching performance get him steamrolled out.  Once McDermott is fired and a real coach is installed, we have a chance, until then, his “don’t lose” attitude will be the demise of many more seasons.

Dude this is such a histrionic, over the top, and factually incorrect take, I'm not sure how to respond.  13 seconds was a travesty, but beyond that everything you've written is gibberish. 

[FilthyBeast]

27 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game.  McDermott has now won three.  The last two seasons we were knocked out on the road against arguably the best team and quarterback in the league (certainly the best over the past 5 years).  

 

I don't know if McDermott is the guy to win us a Super Bowl (or multiple SBs) or if he's the next Marty Schottenheimer, but he's already shown more than Marvin Lewis who was consistently choking away home playoff games.  Not sure how he screwed up an entire season.  Seems to me we've won the division two straight years, made the playoffs in 4 of the last 5, and clearly have the best team in the AFC East heading into next season.  You would have to be insane or the gambler of all gamblers to fire a young head coach like McDermott who has compiled the resume he has over the past five years.  McDermott isn't perfect and no one is saying he is or that he should be above criticism, but this year showed us the same could be said for hoodie and Reid or a number of other coaches (including McVay who has found himself as the Super Bowl favorite just one week after blowing a 20+ point lead in a playoff game). 

 

It seems some posters have had a hard on for McDermott from the moment he became coach - even going so far as to consistently criticize his clapping, which has zero to do with his ability as a coach.  I never really understood the backlash against a guy who has delivered us from 17 years in the football wilderness.

 

I've said all along that this team can do much worse than McDermott....they have for 17 years before he go here.

 

But at the same time through 5 years and an established body of work there is nothing wrong with asking if the Bills can do better....because the evidence is there that they can especially given the latest failures that aren't going anyway anytime soon and will be continued to be magnified all offseason.

 

At the end of the day though, the idea that McDermott deserves some sort of entitlement just because he's the guy that ended the 17 year playoff drought is a loser mentality that Buffalo fans/media/etc need to move past.

 

2022 is year 6 for McDermott and if he can't take this team further than they made it the last two years it will definitely be time to consider replacing him with someone that can and that's the harsh reality of this business whether fans here think that's on the table or not, what matters if the Pegula's do.

[blitzboy54]

He nailed it across the board

[Nihilarian]

51 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I wonder if Payton would like an OC job in Buffalo, paid like a HC and promise of the reins when McClappy screws up again?

The man has already been offered a few HCing jobs on other teams. I highly doubt he would consider a step down to any be teams OC... no matter how much money is offered. 

[PetermansRedemption]

41 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

 

I love the way you arrange that. If the defense held the offense to very few points early then it doesn't count because the game wasn't contested.

 

That's not a legit way to look at the defense's performance. It's a way to find the worst possible perspective on it.

 

The defense played very well in most games. There were certainly a few exceptions, and they should be blamed for those. That Colts game was abysmal. But overall they played really well this year, including against pretty solid offenses An awful first half against the Bucs but a great second half. The offense had some awful games too and somehow nobody wants to talk about that.

 

DVOA adjusts for strength of schedule and the Bills D ranked very high there.

 

 

 

 

Almost as nutty as the fire McDermott fruitcakes, one of whom is also in this thread.

Do you truly believe the Bills had a top ranked defense this season? Rather than just beating up on bottom feeders? Allowed 34 to the Titans, 41 to the Colts, 33 to the Bucs and then 42 when it mattered the most in the playoffs to the Chiefs. He simply isn’t good enough to get this team over the hump and the pressure will fall entirely onto the offense. You can’t sustain that. His defense against the Chiefs was straight up abused and it’s inexcusable. You can’t come back from that. 

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, stevewin said:

Interesting comments on the kick.  As far as the defense - the one thing the Bills did for sure was funnel the ball to the middle 

context: he has had bad and untrusted kickers all year.  Ours had often executed the technique very well. 
 

he is correct though that the defensive calls are much less defensible than the kick (minus the possible major communication issue)

[Freddie's Dead]

Nice to see confirmation from a Super Bowl winning coach that our coaches choked away the Divisional Round.  Thanks again McD.

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, First Round Bust said:

appeciate the insight of a respected insider, ok so the kick-off may or may not have been flawed but a high kick to the 5 or 10 should have been the play over the touchback and no time runoff ?

 

the D took away the long ball and the sideline but gave the middle seam

 

further suggestions:

1. 2 or 3 man rush not 4

2. one defensive hold esp on first down should have been ordered to run more time

3 the use of timeouts on D is zero benefit as the O see the D as well as was the case with Kelce telling Mahomes his analysis during the timeout, plus Mahomes yelled for Kecle "Do It Kelce do it !" and the D did not pick up on that ???

 

 

 

How would the defense know what he is doing??   Overall, imo Buffalo didnt have anyone they trusted to play up on Hill or Kelce.  I said it before I will say it now.  This was the game not having White costed them. White defenses that play and is in position where Mahomes looks to the otherside.  

[TheBrownBear]

8 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Do you truly believe the Bills had a top ranked defense this season? Rather than just beating up on bottom feeders? Allowed 34 to the Titans, 41 to the Colts, 33 to the Bucs and then 42 when it mattered the most in the playoffs to the Chiefs. He simply isn’t good enough to get this team over the hump and the pressure will fall entirely onto the offense. You can’t sustain that. His defense against the Chiefs was straight up abused and it’s inexcusable. You can’t come back from that. 

They gave up 550 yards in the biggest game of the year!  You don't often see those kinds of numbers outside of Alabama vs. Northwest Arkadelphia Tech during week 2 of the CFB season.