Allen is better

[Charles Romes]

 1Josh Allen106.62018-2021buf2Patrick Mahomes105.72017-2021kan3Bart Starr+104.81956-1971gnb4Kurt Warner+102.81998-20092TM5Matt Ryan100.82008-2021atl6Matthew Stafford100.62009-20212TM7Aaron Rodgers100.12005-2021gnb8Nick Foles 98.82012-2021phi9Alex Smith97.42005-20202TM10Drew Brees97.12001-20202TM11Joe Montana+95.61979-19942TM12Russell Wilson95.32012-2021sea13Mark Sanchez94.32009-2018nyj14Ken Anderson93.51971-1986cin15Tony Romo93.02004-2016dal16Joe Theismann91.41974-1985was17Tom Brady90.42000-20212TM18Joe Flacco88.62008-2021rav19Troy Aikman+88.31989-2000dal20Cam Newton87.72011-2021

 

 

it’s great that Josh is officially number 1, but adjusted for era, Bart Starr’s passer rating would be like a 200. He put up a 104.8 back when it was legal to take the receiver’s head off when the ball was in the air. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Some guy I was listening to the other day on the radio said it best about Josh…part John Elway…part Derrick Henry…all Buffalo 

[Turbo44]

8 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

It was stupid.  Passing on a franchise QB when you don't have one is stupid.  And yes, most people didn't realize what Mahomes would become, and anyone team that passed on him without a franchise QB before the Bills did are also stupid.  

 

And the Chiefs had Alex Smith at QB when they drafted Mahomes.  I would never categorize Smith as elite, but he was a good QB at that point in his career.  He had 26TDs and 5 INTs Mahomes' rookie year in 15 games.  

History fact: Watson was universally ranked higher than Mahomes in 2017 yet mahomes went two picks earlier. Good job by KC, though Watson is quite the player too when clothed.

[finn]

I gotta say, I would rather have had the Bills lose to KC after that great game than win and have Allen choke against the Bengals afterwards like Mahomes. We would spent had the whole offseason reading about how Mahomes would have run the table, that he's the next GOAT, etc. Now, you can't say with a straight face that Mahomes is better, not after that choke job and after what Allen accomplished in his two playoff games.

 

It's now officially cool to celebrate Allen, and that wouldn't be the case if he had choked like the Grim Reaper. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh Allen his rookie year.. played with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL 

 

One of the worst receiving cores in the history of the NFL.. Zay Jones was his number one.. kelvin Benjamin looked like a tackle... Undrafted Robert Foster became his playmaker 

 

It was god-awful

 

And then if you actually watch the games through that lens it was clear Allen was the best player on the field for the bills 

 

And that you absolutely needed to surround him with talent .. he oozed talent his rookie year but he was unrefined and had little talent around him

 

 

And why was that?  Because McD didn't give a rats ass about offense.   Same with Tyrod.  Old news.

[cle23]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  As has been stated, if anyone knew how good Mahomes was going to be, he'd have been the 1st overall pick instead of Trubisky.  And if you want to play that game, picking Baker 1st overall was stupid.

 

Baker is trending down. If he doesn't greatly improve, then yes, it was a stupid pick. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Charles Romes said:

 1Josh Allen106.62018-2021buf2Patrick Mahomes105.72017-2021kan3Bart Starr+104.81956-1971gnb4Kurt Warner+102.81998-20092TM5Matt Ryan100.82008-2021atl6Matthew Stafford100.62009-20212TM7Aaron Rodgers100.12005-2021gnb8Nick Foles 98.82012-2021phi9Alex Smith97.42005-20202TM10Drew Brees97.12001-20202TM11Joe Montana+95.61979-19942TM12Russell Wilson95.32012-2021sea13Mark Sanchez94.32009-2018nyj14Ken Anderson93.51971-1986cin15Tony Romo93.02004-2016dal16Joe Theismann91.41974-1985was17Tom Brady90.42000-20212TM18Joe Flacco88.62008-2021rav19Troy Aikman+88.31989-2000dal20Cam Newton87.72011-2021

 

 

it’s great that Josh is officially number 1, but adjusted for era, Bart Starr’s passer rating would be like a 200. He put up a 104.8 back when it was legal to take the receiver’s head off when the ball was in the air. 

I always hear this as a way to downgrade current QB stats compared to those from the golden age.  But were those 1960's/70's defenses as sophisticated in their coverage schemes and blitz packages as today's defenses are? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Well. There are some 'fans' out there, on gameday, that would leave you wondering.... 😆

 

Quick someone, photoshop a Bills cap onto this fella:

 

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

History fact: Watson was universally ranked higher than Mahomes in 2017 yet mahomes went two picks earlier. Good job by KC, though Watson is quite the player too when clothed.

 

I thought the problem is that Watson tries to be too much the "player" when NOT clothed

[Doc]

51 minutes ago, cle23 said:

Baker is trending down. If he doesn't greatly improve, then yes, it was a stupid pick. 

 

So it was a stupid pick from the get-go.  Even though the Browns needed a franchise QB.

 

Would you say not taking Mahomes in 2017 was also a stupid decision?  I mean, Garrett is a good player, but Mahomes would have transformed your franchise.

[LifeLongFan]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:57 PM, Nextmanup said:

Mahomes had a lousy 2nd half by his standards.

 

Probably still the best QB in the game right now.

 

When Josh has a QB ring too, the debate will be more interesting.

 

 

was Eli Manning better then Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre?  Rings are irrelevant to a point!   Josh is more dangerous then Mahomes! (Period) Pat has a Cheetah and HOF Tight end...  

[Jackalope89]

When "On", Mahomes and Allen can go toe to toe. Both proved that last weekend. Difference is, without Kelce and Hill, Mahomes doesn't distribute much. Josh, well, you're not an o-linemen, decent chance you get the ball.

[The Wiz]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So it was a stupid pick from the get-go.  Even though the Browns needed a franchise QB.

 

Would you say not taking Mahomes in 2017 was also a stupid decision?  I mean, Garrett is a good player, but Mahomes would have transformed your franchise.

It's not exactly a fair comparison saying that Mahomes would have transformed the franchise based on where we were at the time and where the Chiefs were at the same time having gone 11-5, 11-4 and 9-6 from '15-'17.

 

Could he have, sure.  The Chiefs at the time though were a much better equipped organization from top to bottom for developing him including letting him sit and learn behind Alex Smith.

[Doc]

Just now, The Wiz said:

It's not exactly a fair comparison saying that Mahomes would have transformed the franchise based on where we were at the time and where the Chiefs were at the same time having gone 11-5, 11-4 and 9-6 from '15-'17.

 

Could he have, sure.  The Chiefs at the time though were a much better equipped organization from top to bottom for developing him including letting him sit and learn behind Alex Smith.

 

I think guys like Mahones, Josh, etc, would have thrived wherever.  Guys like Darnold, Mayfield, etc. would have failed wherever.

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Jackalope89 said:

When "On", Mahomes and Allen can go toe to toe. Both proved that last weekend. Difference is, without Kelce and Hill, Mahomes doesn't distribute much. Josh, well, you're not an o-linemen, decent chance you get the ball.

This is a great point. Going back to Allen's rookie season think about all the receivers who had their best games/seasons with Allen throwing to them. Diggs, Brown, Beasley, McKenzie, Sanders, Davis and Foster.  Allen is the very definition of a QB that elevates those around him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

We needed that Patrick homes to show up the week before

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I think guys like Mahones, Josh, etc, would have thrived wherever.  Guys like Darnold, Mayfield, etc. would have failed wherever.

If you put Josh on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills there would have been different narratives about each of them with the talent they had around them at the time is my point.  I have a hard time thinking Mahomes would have made Zay Jones and Charles Clay look anything as good as Tyrek Hill and Travis Kelce.

 

 

Mayfield had the chance with a good deal of talent around him and failed. Darnold never really had the chance with the Jets.  Rosen had Fitzgerald at what feels like 40 years old.  Lamar had nothing but really didn't need anything since his game wasn't based on passing but running.

[78thealltimegreat]

3 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

If you put Josh on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills there would have been different narratives about each of them with the talent they had around them at the time is my point.  I have a hard time thinking Mahomes would have made Zay Jones and Charles Clay look anything as good as Tyrek Hill and Travis Kelce.

 

 

Mayfield had the chance with a good deal of talent around him and failed. Darnold never really had the chance with the Jets.  Rosen had Fitzgerald at what feels like 40 years old.  Lamar had nothing but really didn't need anything since his game wasn't based on passing but running.

This! Add to the fact Pat got to sit behind a playoff level team with Alex smith for a year with one of the

great offensive minds as coach.

Josh wasn’t  supposed to start and got thrown into the job cause Pederman and Mccarron where XFL caliber QBs and almost got McDermott fired 

Edited February 1, 2022 by 78thealltimegreat

[Doc]

Just now, The Wiz said:

If you put Josh on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Bills there would have been different narratives about each of them with the talent they had around them at the time is my point.  I have a hard time thinking Mahomes would have made Zay Jones and Charles Clay look anything as good as Tyrek Hill and Travis Kelce.

 

Mayfield had the chance with a good deal of talent around him and failed. Darnold never really had the chance with the Jets.  Rosen had Fitzgerald at what feels like 40 years old.  Lamar had nothing but really didn't need anything since his game wasn't based on passing but running.

 

Well to be fair, Josh's mechanics were terrible his first few seasons.  I think they would have been saying what they were saying when he was with the Bills, and that he was wasting Kelce and Hill.  But he would have made the leap in his 3rd year at the latest.  And while the talent on the Bills was poor, like Josh did, Mahomes would have shown he had what it takes.

 

As for Darnold, he had plenty of chances.  He's what most thought when he was in college: turnover prone and didn't have it mentally.  He's backup material at best.  Baker's just an average starter. 

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Well to be fair, Josh's mechanics were terrible his first few seasons.  I think they would have been saying what they were saying when he was with the Bills, and that he was wasting Kelce and Hill.  But he would have made the leap in his 3rd year at the latest.  And while the talent on the Bills was poor, like Josh did, Mahomes would have shown he had what it takes.

 

As for Darnold, he had plenty of chances.  He's what most thought when he was in college: turnover prone and didn't have it mentally.  He's backup material at best.  Baker's just an average starter. 

Even still, Josh did enough with subpar talent around him both in college and the NFL his first few seasons to show that there was something special about him.

 

I have no doubt that Mahomes would have shown that he was ready for the NFL and had what it takes but that's basing it on the fact that he would have had a year to sit and learn behind Turod.

 

As for Darnold, USC QBs have always been a flash in the pan to me.  They are great in college and are bad pros.

[CincyBillsFan]

Damn.  No more screw ups coach McD.