With Allen, can the Bills de-emphasize skill positions?

[T master]

No remember when Brady had Randy Moss on the team that's the kind of offense i want in Buffalo that way Josh could score at will & take no prisoners !

[Mr. WEO]

This blueprint has worked...one time in history.

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, Success said:

 

The Bucs were kind of a different story. They were loaded at skill positions.

 

I didn't really expect the kind of negative reaction this one got.  It was just a discussion thought - the Pats definitely had a blueprint for their 2 decades of success, and it wasn't cheating, or investing too much capital in skill positions.  

 

The only thought I had was, is that worth emulating? Or do we forge our own path?

 

 

You're advocating that the Bills force their franchise QB to function at HOF-worthy level with JAG weaponry in order to build a mythical "championship caliber" defense so the Bills can emulate a Pats dynasty that hasn't proven to be replicable ...  and you're surprised at the negative reactions?  

 

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

No one has said defense is unimportant. If you read through the thread, you'll see what is intended. We need to allocate more prime resources to offense. This regime has not shown itself averse to spending top picks on D. So far, it's got you a pretty good defense. If they want to kick that up a notch, they're going to have to get someone like Chandler Jones which another poster suggested. A speed cb2 would help. Folks can see what could improve that side of the ball and that's fine, but the idea that the offense is good enough and it's the D that needs attention is not correct imo.

 

Exactly.  Just because a QB is a potential HOFer doesn't mean he doesn't need protection and targets.  Exhibit A is the Seahawks.   Russ doesn't cook too well when he only has no offensive line and only Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf to throw to.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Outside of Moss, Brady DEFINITELY made the careers for most of the top Wideouts he had. None of them would have ever accomplished 50% of what they did had they not played for Brady. That said, he made good WRs great, but the years when he has poor WRs they only were elevated to average WRs. Elite QBs like Brady and Allen can elevate WRs, but they can’t make a poor or average WR great. You must surround them with good WR/TE talent at a minimum.

[SCBills]

Give Allen a good OL and he will torch anyone, but we also need playmakers to lessen his load.  
 

I think too many people are clouded by recency bias.  “Josh Unleashed” in the Playoffs.   That. Is. Not. Sustainable. Over. A. Full. Season.  
 

We need guys that will win us games necessary for the 1 seed, without demanding Allen do it all.  
 

If teams are going to Cover 2 shell us again, we need players to wreck that.  That means a running game and guys who provide us YAC.  
 

We have enough good players on defense to supplement it (CB2) and another pass rusher, but give me an elite offense and solid defense every time.  I could care less if we paper tiger our way to a #1 defense again next year. 
 

People got way too obsessed with a beat up KC OL and gimpy Mahomes getting beat down my Tampa’s DL last year. 
 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by SCBills

[nucci]

17 hours ago, Success said:

 

I look at teams like the '90's Dolphins. They put more emphasis on getting weapons for Marino, than on building a championship D.

 

 

 

They ignored the D. Bills do not. You can have both

[Success]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

You're advocating that the Bills force their franchise QB to function at HOF-worthy level with JAG weaponry in order to build a mythical "championship caliber" defense so the Bills can emulate a Pats dynasty that hasn't proven to be replicable ...  and you're surprised at the negative reactions?  

 

 

That's an interesting characterization of the OP.

 

[cDAVIS]

18 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I would not want to de-emphasize skill positions, and Josh isn't Brady.  They have different skill sets despite both being great QBs.

 

I think Josh needs good WRs more than Brady did.

 

I would continue to pump assets at improving the offense, especially at skill positions.

 

 

Agreed. McD seems to make any defense solid regardless of the talent level. Invest in offense and Josh can drop 30+. We would likely go 14-3 or 13-4 for years 

[SoTier]

19 minutes ago, nucci said:

They ignored the D. Bills do not. You can have both

 

They also ignored the running game, which was a much larger part of NFL offenses back then.  When they got to the playoffs, teams with good Ds would shut down Marino and they had no answer.  

 

The way to build a perennial playoff team/Super Bowl contender, especially today, is to support your very good/excellent QB with enough playmakers on both sides of the ball so that he isn't asked to carry the entire offensive load as well as make up for serious defensive deficiencies.  IOW, a team has to have a good/great offense but at least an above average defense.   It's not easy to do, especially over several years.   I think to do that, a team has  to draft well and then make strategic trades or signings, which takes a really good FO with excellent scouting and player evaluation departments.    IMO, it's the scouting/player e v a l  aspect that has come to separate the best teams from the mediocre ones. 

[ColoradoBills]

No.  Beane has not de-emphasized the skill positions on offense and he won't in the future.

For that matter he hasn't de-emphasized the OL either.  

 

Beane has to constantly reevaluate every aspect of this team and attempt to balance it the best he can.

He has had some pretty good misses on some draft picks and FA signings.  Every team does.  This causes

gaps in long term planning.  You don't have to look any farther than Cody Ford to see what I'm saying.

 

He's got a number of holes to fill this season and will have a number of holes to fill next season and the one after that.

For every hole he fills on defense there will be keyboard warriors condemning him for neglecting the offense and vice versa.

All GMs and HCs go through this constantly and I think Beane and McDermott have been doing a pretty damn good job so far.

Keep it up guys!

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Josh is a ridiculous over the top superstar. Our OL could use some improving. But if I ever have to watch any team go 45 yards in 13 seconds again, my head will explode. Get a better Defense around Allen. And don't ever give me this #1 D crap.  Hopefully our HC will eventually stop with the stupid in game mistakes. 

[BillsVet]

5 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Its not really their approach though.  KC keeps going after more skill - they acquired Watkins, Gordon, and rumor has it they’re going to go hard after OBJ this offseason.  They traded a first for a LT, signed Bell, etc.  If Kamara became available they’d be the first team in line.  And they’ve done the same on defense in terms of targeting pass rushers, Honey Badger etc.  Not all of their moves have worked out but they keep trying.  I wish the Bills pursued skill as aggressively as KC does - the skill disparity was on full display last weekend.

 

McD is really the CEO (with Beane as COO) of the football side of the house...and his football worldview has infused itself at TBD.  He's a cautious guy by nature as many NFL HC's are, but I would hope by now he understands that being bold in-game on in personnel is absolutely essential now to take the leap into being a SB winner.

 

You're correct about KC...they have been aggressive making changes, adding talent, replacing underperforming players, etc.  Buffalo has operated in the image of their HC: safe, careful, and only occasionally taking a chance here or there.  I'd like to see McD evolve into being a risk-taker and be open to changing his outlook.  Because if he can't do it now after losing to KC in the playoffs twice and seeing he has a veritable franchise QB he never will.  

[LabattBlue]

I’m not saying they have to eliminate them completely, but the number of designed runs for Allen has to be scaled back, or his career will be shortened. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by BTB

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

They ignored the D. Bills do not. You can have both

 

They actually used quite a few early picks on defenders in the late 80s up through the end of the Shula era.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/draft.htm

 

The reason the Dolphins couldn't beat the Bills is because they couldn't quite match the firepower the Bills had at WR and they had absolutely no equivalent for Thurman Thomas. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Brandon

[nucci]

47 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

They actually used quite a few early picks on defenders in the late 80s up through the end of the Shula era.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/draft.htm

 

The reason the Dolphins couldn't beat the Bills is because they couldn't quite match the firepower the Bills had at WR and they had absolutely no equivalent for Thurman Thomas. 

They had Duper and Clayton. They just had a bad defense

[Chicken Boo]

If you want to have success in today's NFL, you had better surround Josh with the best talent that you can at the skill positions.  

 

The Bills are not the Patriots.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

If you want to have success in today's NFL, you had better surround Josh with the best talent that you can at the skill positions.  

 

The Bills are not the Patriots.

 

No argument there but trading another 1st and 4th and $20M per year for another WR are some of the ways I disagree with "the how".

LOL.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

McD is really the CEO (with Beane as COO) of the football side of the house...and his football worldview has infused itself at TBD.  He's a cautious guy by nature as many NFL HC's are, but I would hope by now he understands that being bold in-game on in personnel is absolutely essential now to take the leap into being a SB winner.

 

You're correct about KC...they have been aggressive making changes, adding talent, replacing underperforming players, etc.  Buffalo has operated in the image of their HC: safe, careful, and only occasionally taking a chance here or there.  I'd like to see McD evolve into being a risk-taker and be open to changing his outlook.  Because if he can't do it now after losing to KC in the playoffs twice and seeing he has a veritable franchise QB he never will.  

When they traded for Diggs it was heralded as this Earth-shattering epiphany: McBeane finally being comfortable enough with the state of The Process to take the bold step, to make an aggressive move for that final piece of the roster puzzle.  
 

For many teams that’s just a normal offseason activity, acquiring a high-priced piece of talent.  
 

It really should just be the MO at this point.  Fine to be cap-responsible but you’ve got about ten years of the Allen Window left and you CANNOT squander it like the Packers have done.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No , need weapons

 

 

[Hebert19]

22 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I’m content going into next year with Diggs, Davis, McKenzie (re-sign), Stevenson, Hodges, and another fast draft pick maybe in the first 3 rounds. Oh and competition for Knox, Gesicki would be a great signing even if he hardly blocks.

Need one more target.  Gesicki would be perfect if you ask me.