Brian Daboll hired to be Head Coach of NY Giants

[Kmart128]

Itd be stupid for Dorsey to leave if he has opportunity to stay and work with Josh Allen. If he stays and offense remains successful Ken Dorsey would be looking at a future head coaching job in the near future.

 

Unless they work some miracle on Daniel Jones he will likely be stuck with Giants and possibly even fired depending how the new regime goes.

[Golden*Wheels]

Was wishing they took Frazier instead...oh well...

[Low Positive]

25 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

Itd be stupid for Dorsey to leave if he has opportunity to stay and work with Josh Allen. If he stays and offense remains successful Ken Dorsey would be looking at a future head coaching job in the near future.

 

Unless they work some miracle on Daniel Jones he will likely be stuck with Giants and possibly even fired depending how the new regime goes.

You gotta think with the ego of an NFL coach. Ken Dorsey thinks he's responsible for Josh's development. He thinks that his best path to an NFL head coaching job is to just work his magic on Daniel Jones. After all, he's the quarterback whisperer. 

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

Does anyone think that these compensatory picks may be actually costing coaches opportunities? Do you think Miami would rather us not have the picks and go with someone else if it was a close call? 

They are just Comp picks, the hiring team does not lose them.  So, no, they would never factor into the decision. 
 

I’m happy for Daboll.  Good dude, excellent coach and he did great things here.  He’s earned his shot and I think this is a great fit for him.

Edited January 29, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Bookie Man]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

They are just Comp picks, the hiring team does not lose them.  So, no, they would never factor into the decision. 
 

I’m happy for Daboll.  Good dude, excellent coach and he did great things here.  He’s earned his shot and I think this is a great fit for him.

Yeah I know that the hiring team doesn’t lose picks. But let’s say that the hiring decision came down to Coach A and Coach B, and it was very close. And Coach A was a minority within the division, I would have to think that giving a division rival 2 extra 3rd round picks would factor into the decision. I know we all joke here about the Pats getting comp picks, I’m sure it’s something coaches think about too. 

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, Nitro said:

There was some NFL sources stating Dorsey was going to go with Dabol.  I am putting it out there.  Who knows what the man will do.  

At this point, it is just two giants sources (reputable) saying the giants are actively going after him and “in negotiations” - feels strategically leaked and worded. Bills can’t officially offer it to him until the they interview one minority from outside the org. #dorseywatch

[Sweats]

Is it official about Daboll?.........and can we throw in Frazier as a 2 for one deal?

[Chaos]

11 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Why would Dorsey leave if it comes down to a choice between being OC in NY or Buffalo?  And if offered the OC here, it then becomes a lateral move so the Bills can just say no to NY.  He knows what he has in Allen, from everything written they have a close relationship. 

Dorsey is not a serf for the Bills. He is not their OC.  Bills can't keep him locked in by offering him a job. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

That really depends on if Ken Dorsey stays or not IMO.

 

While someone like Mike Schula might know that scheme and has run it before. Who is to say the guy would be successful in Buffalo, even with a unicorn the Bills have at QB. He stunk with the NY Giants in 2018-2019, with Eli Manning (and that was with a healthy Saquon Barkley) / Daniel Jones as his QBs.  

 

Don't know that the Bills should be as concerned with keeping the scheme over finding a top OC replacement.

 

I think it's way too simplistic to say Mike Shula "stunk with the NY Giants with Eli Manning".  Did you watch any of their games?  That was the Ghost of Eli Manning, playing behind a sieve of an OL, with WR who weren't helping him out a bit.  2019 was Danny Jones rookie year, but his best season by several metrics - best TD/INT (24 TD to 12 INTs), enough yards to win football games, best passer rating.

 

But that's far from the only thing on Shula's resume, both good and bad.

[CaptnCoke11]

41 minutes ago, tenderland said:

yea keep poaching are team. I think goin after Dorsey is kinda scummy.  Hope he goes 0-17

Happens all the time in the entire league.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Is it official about Daboll?.........and can we throw in Frazier as a 2 for one deal?

 

Yes, see upthread.  Giants have announced it "we got our guy"  No.

[Dopey]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

He is gonna find out that not being able to bring Josh with him is actually a big deal

Pretty sure he knew that ahead of time. Geez.

[atlbillsfan1975]

12 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Why would Dorsey leave if it comes down to a choice between being OC in NY or Buffalo?  And if offered the OC here, it then becomes a lateral move so the Bills can just say no to NY.  He knows what he has in Allen, from everything written they have a close relationship. 

The only reason I can think of is McDermott. For me, it would confirm a concern I have, that McDermott was interfering with the offense at times this season and there was rift between Daboll and McD. Dorsey might have witnessed this and/or heard Daboll saying the HC wants this so we do this. Dorsey also might have a better relationship with Dabes. Couple of possibilities. 

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, please, this is nonsense.

 

It wasn't as simple as a cover 2 shell. That's why it gave Andy Reid and the Chiefs the same massive problems it gave the Bills, and for about the same length of time.

 

Arguing that the later season explosion was only on Allen is pure confirmation bias. If it were only Allen, how come he didn't do the same earlier in the season? He was the QB then too and having problems then too.

 

You want to believe that it was Allen, not Daboll, so even though it's absent any evidence, you just believe it.

The Chiefs had their own problems with a rebuilt offensive line, defensive injuries. I don't know that the Chiefs faced a cover 2 shell scheme against the Buffalo Bills in a 38-20 KC loss in week 5. Or the Ravens, Chargers, Titans, Bengals who they also lost to in 2021? 

 

Mahomes was pressing and attempting to carry his team all on his* own. He was clearly struggling for the first part of 2021. You actually think that every team he faced that gave him trouble ran a cover 2 shell? 

 

Buffalo also had offensive line issues for a lot of the season. This better O line also helped Buffalo in being able to run the ball more effectively, give Josh more time in the pocket later in the season. Actually utilizing the running game with the RBs also helped the offense.

 

For Buffalo, that cover 2 shell was kryptonite and Daboll couldn't figure out how to defeat it. The Bills/Allen came alive in the second half of that Tampa bay game. Quite a bit of that was all Josh Allen. 

 

I also think that McD read Daboll the riot act at that time, or a well placed boot. Nevertheless, shortly after the Bills started running the ball more with the RBs.

Previously, I kept reading in this forum how the team needed a RB, needed better O line players. All that talk suddenly stopped after that Bucs game. 

 

Tell me again it was Daboll and not Allen...as that young QB played near two perfect playoff games!  I do believe it was more Allen! 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Nihilarian

[Dopey]

10 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

I agree.  He's coached in the NFL for many years and his first great offense just happened the last 2 years.  And those are the Josh 2 years of excellence.

I guess Josh just picked things up on his own as an NFL QB. Daboll golfed all these off seasons. 

Sounds like something a Josh Allen ball washer says. And we have quite a few on this board. Hope Josh gets his jockstrap back before training camp start. Nice and clean.

[Lagoon Blues]

Everyone bitching misses the fact that both are probably true.  Josh made Brian better and Brian made Josh better.  Josh can and did execute the plays exactly how they should have been run on a regular basis and Brian put Josh(and everyone else) in those positions to do that play after play. FFS.  

Edited January 29, 2022 by Lagoon Blues

[teef]

Good for him.  This is a huge step. 

[Nihilarian]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think it's way too simplistic to say Mike Shula "stunk with the NY Giants with Eli Manning".  Did you watch any of their games?  That was the Ghost of Eli Manning, playing behind a sieve of an OL, with WR who weren't helping him out a bit.  2019 was Danny Jones rookie year, but his best season by several metrics - best TD/INT (24 TD to 12 INTs), enough yards to win football games, best passer rating.

 

But that's far from the only thing on Shula's resume, both good and bad.

The 2018 NY Giants had a 1000 yard RB in Saquon Barkley, 261 carries for 1307 yards, a 5.0 YPC AVG. ODB Jr had 77 receptions for 1052 yards. Yet the 2018 Giants went 5-11. Offense in the mid teens and defense in the low 20s. 

 

Shula was replaced as OC in NY when the team hired a new HC. He has since gone on to be the Broncos QB coach.

 

Yes, he did good with Cam Newton as his QB in Carolina.

 

I guess my problem with the guy is that I don't want to see Josh Allen needing to be the teams leading rusher or among the leading rushing scorers anymore. I'm not saying I don't want Allen to run if needed as it can turn a defense upside down.

 

Five passing TDs against the #2 passing defense of the Patriots in that WC playoff game. Four passing TDs against the Chiefs in that divisional playoff game. We all saw that the guy can rip a defense apart with his arm...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The 2018 NY Giants had a 1000 yard RB in Saquon Barkley, 261 carries for 1307 yards, a 5.0 YPC AVG. ODB Jr had 77 receptions for 1052 yards. Yet the 2018 Giants went 5-11. Offense in the mid teens and defense in the low 20s. 

 

Right, so that's not just "stunk".  The Giants gambled that they could still contend one more year with Eli if they beefed up their D, and it didn't work.

 

14 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Shula was replaced as OC in NY when the team hired a new HC. He has since gone on to be the Broncos QB coach.

 

Yes, he did good with Cam Newton as his QB in Carolina.

 

Prior to Carolina, he was OC of the Bucs in the late '90s when they had a run to the conference championship - with Trent Dilfer at QB

He was QB coach of the Dolphins in 2000 and 2001 when they had a couple 11-5 seasons - with Jay Fiedler as his QB - and then when they replaced Gailey with Norv Turner 🤦‍♂️

 

etc etc 

 

My point is that he's got a much longer resume than either Giants or Carolina.

 

I'm not saying he's an inspiring choice or a young hotshot, but that's fundamentally what the choice is:

1) we can go with a young guy who has never been an OC and might or might not be able to do it on his own

2) we can go with a guy who has OC experience, and who isn't currently an OC because he didn't light the world on fire in his previous shots

 

I don't have a good feeling for how much Shula's previous resume is impacted by limitations of the QB's he's worked with, and how much he has an idea on how to run offense and tries to push his personnel into ideas, or how "up to date" and flexible he is.  That's really key.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Daboll has been a career mediocrity without Josh Allen behind center.  I expect that to resume as Giants coach.