Brian Daboll hired to be Head Coach of NY Giants

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Why would Dorsey leave if it comes down to a choice between being OC in NY or Buffalo?  And if offered the OC here, it then becomes a lateral move so the Bills can just say no to NY.  He knows what he has in Allen, from everything written they have a close relationship. 

Yeah one would think. Never know what's on the mind of ppl though. Maybe the bigger payday is more important, who knows...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Just now, Old Coot said:

I hope you are right.

 

Let's put it this way, if I'm not right the only likely reason is the Bills didn't offer him the OC role and maybe the not ever called plays is scaring them off or other things.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

To suggest Daboll had little to nothing to do with his development is ridiculous.

I never said he didn’t.  Like I said, they helped each other.  

[Reed83HOF]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

But keep in mind it's not just Josh who has to master a new playbook, it's everyone else on the offense.  I'm not saying they can't, but a WCO is conceptually usually a very different offense, very timed.

Find it hard to believe they would change the offense scheme, which honestly does not make sense

 

I don't see Josh playing in a contained timed offense, sorry I don't. That is not his style or a scheme he is suited for IMO

[Mrbojanglezs]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

What’s the O/U?

 

3 years?

 

2.5

[Nihilarian]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Erm....Matt LaFleur is still the head coach in Green Bay.  He's not coming to Buffalo to be our OC.

 

But keep in mind it's not just Josh who has to master a new playbook, it's everyone else on the offense.  I'm not saying they can't, but a WCO is conceptually usually a very different offense, very timed.

I realize that. Just saying, someone from that coaching tree. Shanahan/McVay-WCO tree.

 

Like I said, Josh is a very, very bright guy.  Wonderlic, 37. 

 

I think it would be good for him to learn other offenses.

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

I realize that. Just saying, someone from that coaching tree. Shanahan/McVay-WCO tree.

 

Like I said, Josh is a very, very bright guy.  Wonderlic, 37. 

 

I think it would be good for him to learn other offenses.

we are a super bowl team, we are not changing schemes now on offense which is one of the best offense in the league

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

we are a super bowl team, we are not changing schemes now on offense which is one of the best offense in the league

That really depends on if Ken Dorsey stays or not IMO.

 

While someone like Mike Schula might know that scheme and has run it before. Who is to say the guy would be successful in Buffalo, even with a unicorn the Bills have at QB. He stunk with the NY Giants in 2018-2019, with Eli Manning (and that was with a healthy Saquon Barkley) / Daniel Jones as his QBs.  

 

Don't know that the Bills should be as concerned with keeping the scheme over finding a top OC replacement.

[NoSaint]

28 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Why would Dorsey leave if it comes down to a choice between being OC in NY or Buffalo?  And if offered the OC here, it then becomes a lateral move so the Bills can just say no to NY.  He knows what he has in Allen, from everything written they have a close relationship. 

the easiest answer: maybe he doesn’t feel ready to run the show on his own and likes the safety blanket of daboll in the room to coach him through some of the learning curve, help him stock the position coaches, provide a lot of playbook and play calling support etc…  
 

a lot of posters are jumping to “he must hate McD” but I think having a safety net might be the real thing.

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, Nihilarian said:

That really depends on if Ken Dorsey stays or not IMO.

 

While someone like Mike Schula might know that scheme and has run it before. Who is to say the guy would be successful in Buffalo, even with a unicorn the Bills have at QB. He stunk with the NY Giants in 2018-2019, with Eli Manning (and that was with a healthy Saquon Barkley) / Daniel Jones as his QBs.  

 

Don't know that the Bills should be as concerned with keeping the scheme over finding a top OC replacement.

 

Do you even understand what a scheme change entails?

 

A top OC replacement is someone who can build a scheme around their players and doesn't try to fit a scheme on players who are not a fit for their scheme.

 

We have one of the top scoring offenses in the NFL, we have a scheme that had players drafted, traded for, signed and developed under it - why would you change that? To get a top OC guy? at what cost to the roster and knowledge you have in a system that is one of the top scoring offenses in the league?

 

FWIW Bellicheck has the same coaching record as Rex Ryan without Brady...

Just now, NoSaint said:

the easiest answer: maybe he doesn’t feel ready to run the show on his own and likes the safety blanket of daboll in the room to coach him through some of the learning curve, help him stock the position coaches, provide a lot of playbook and play calling support etc…  
 

a lot of posters are jumping to “he must hate McD” but I think having a safety net might be the real thing.

He can still learn under Daboll, here he is the HC off the offense.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Do you even understand what a scheme change entails?

 

A top OC replacement is someone who can build a scheme around their players and doesn't try to fit a scheme on players who are not a fit for their scheme.

 

We have one of the top scoring offenses in the NFL, we have a scheme that had players drafted, traded for, signed and developed under it - why would you change that? To get a top OC guy? at what cost to the roster and knowledge you have in a system that is one of the top scoring offenses in the league?

 

FWIW Bellicheck has the same coaching record as Rex Ryan without Brady...

He can still learn under Daboll, here he is the HC off the offense.

I think it’s a huge factor that is being neglected. 
 

Has to love josh as an asset - but if he isn’t ready to manage a full offensive staff solo (and also maybe additionally lose some of his trusted guys to daboll), rework scheme and play call solo, or revamp a playbook during the off-season solo…. It’s not hard to imagine he would follow his trusted superior for his next step instead of taking the better opportunity that lands 100% on his shoulders. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

i was pleasantly surprised with Daboll who really seemed to turn Allen around, when he was first hired I was uninspired but sometimes coaches just need to gain more experience and that what he went out and did and it paid off for him and Josh Allen. I have nothing bad to say about him, he came here and tried his best to get us that ring and it just fell short, I wish him nothing but the best in New Jersey. 

[Nihilarian]

5 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Do you even understand what a scheme change entails?

 

A top OC replacement is someone who can build a scheme around their players and doesn't try to fit a scheme on players who are not a fit for their scheme.

I do.

 

You just explained how a new OC would have input into his job in Buffalo using that "Buffalo Bills offensive playbook".

 

Like a Frank Reich type OC who builds an offense around his players.

 

What I didn't do was suggest the Bills hire a new OC who would change the entire playbook/scheme. Obviously, the Bills would not want a Greg Roman type OC either.

 

You know, not like what Rex Ryan did in Buffalo to that best D line in the league. Instead of asking them to keep doing what they had been doing. He changed the scheme to fit his ideas...of dropping the Bills pass rushers into coverage or asking them to eat up blockers so the crappy Bills LBers could attempt to make a play. 

 

Merely suggesting an offense that Josh Allen doesn't need to be the leading rusher, second leading rushing scorer.

Looked to me like a lot of teams had caught up to Buffalo's offense at the start of the season. 

 

[Nitro]

He got a HC job that ever coach wants.  I am thinking he brings Dorsey along.  Happy for Dabol.  Our whipping boy is gone. 

[Reed83HOF]

28 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

What I didn't do was suggest the Bills hire a new OC who would change the entire playbook/scheme. Obviously, the Bills would not want a Greg Roman type OC either.

 

Looked to me like a lot of teams had caught up to Buffalo's offense at the start of the season. 

 

You suggested it in 3 posts on the previous page

"To be honest I wouldn't mind changing schemes a bit."

 

"I think it would be good for him to learn other offenses."

 

"Don't know that the Bills should be as concerned with keeping the scheme over finding a top OC replacement."

 

 

[BobbyC81]

So, all 3 head coaches hired so far are first-timers.   Two were Bills” OCs.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

 

[mannc]

44 minutes ago, Nitro said:

He got a HC job that ever coach wants.  I am thinking he brings Dorsey along.  Happy for Dabol.  Our whipping boy is gone. 

I just can’t see Dorsey walking away from the Bills OC job…it’s almost a lock that he’ll be in line for a HC job in 2-3 years.  NYG is much more uncertain and a lot of people will assume Daboll is the de facto OC…

[transplantbillsfan]

Why would Dorsey walk away from a Unicorn QB in Josh Allen (who lobbied for him the day after the KC game) for a horrible QB in Daniel Jones or an unknown?

 

Unless there's bad blood with someone in the organization, it doesn't make any sense at all to make a lateral move from sure thing to big question mark.

[Turk71]

only 3 teams in the NFL used pre snap motion on a lesser % of plays than the Bills last season; the Giants, the Eagles, and the Cardinals. 

 I'd like to see more moving parts and more speed to really get defenses on their heels.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Turk71