Still the Juries out on Allen - Athletic Article Burrow, Allen or Herbert

[Billsfan1972]

Anyone else read this? 

 

https://theathletic.com/3088403/2022/01/27/joe-burrow-josh-allen-or-justin-herbert-which-rising-young-qb-would-nfl-coaches-and-execs-take-now/

 

What is interesting is so much love for Burrow & also Herbert.  Again seems many underestimate Allen (especially coaches).

 

Then read the comment section (up to 445 as of Friday 8:00 am) and the love for Burrow is off the chart, with of course too many pissed Lamar Jackson isn't there (remember he made the Pro Bowl, not Allen or Burrow).

 

What I have said all year, outside lousy weather, the one thing that holds him back is coaching.

 

Even the last two games, I swear, his stats could have been even better.  It was only when down 23-14 that Josh was "unleashed" imo.  

 

Heck where was that 400 yard game this year.  

 

 

[TBBills]

No and why would you post it here...  you are doing exactly what they want you to.

 

Bill Belichick doesn't go out of his way to talk to other teams players but he did twice with Josh... that's all you need to know... "especially coaches" no the coaches know he is special.

 

 

You got trolled and lost.

 

Well @Nextmanup seemed to have wrote the article.

Edited January 28, 2022 by TBBills

[78thealltimegreat]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Anyone else read this? 

 

https://theathletic.com/3088403/2022/01/27/joe-burrow-josh-allen-or-justin-herbert-which-rising-young-qb-would-nfl-coaches-and-execs-take-now/

 

What is interesting is so much love for Burrow & also Herbert.  Again seems many underestimate Allen (especially coaches).

 

Then read the comment section (up to 445 as of Friday 8:00 am) and the love for Burrow is off the chart, with of course too many pissed Lamar Jackson isn't there (remember he made the Pro Bowl, not Allen or Burrow).

 

What I have said all year, outside lousy weather, the one thing that holds him back is coaching.

 

Even the last two games, I swear, his stats could have been even better.  It was only when down 23-14 that Josh was "unleashed" imo.  

 

Heck where was that 400 yard game this year.  

 

 

Remember many of these guys “missed on Allen” as Burrow went 1 and Herbert went 5 Which makes their own failures as front offices look better.

Anybody could have had Allen the Bills went from 22-7 to get him and many owners are wondering why didn’t you do that?

 

So when a front office and execs in Chicago or Denver or the Jets or Miami say they’d take these guys over Josh is simply do to jealousy and their stupidity 

[HamptonBillsfan]

Any objective observer who witnessed Allen's historic, superhuman performance the last 2 weeks must come away with the same conclusion (even Allen hater Nick Wright),Josh can play QB on a different level than anyone  who ever played the position. If you're starting an NFL team ,unanimous GMs would say "Josh please"

[Low Positive]

Burrow and Herbert are more traditional picket passers who had success at the college level. They both throw a very pretty ball and run traditional NFL offenses. Coaches and GMs understand how they are doing what they are doing, so they can project that success going forward. Burrow gets love from fans because people saw him dominate in college. Also, people don't have to admit that they were wrong in praising Burrow; he was a can't-miss prospect who is making everyone's projections come to fruition.

 

Even after what he did in those two playoff games, a lot of people can't believe what they are seeing with Josh. It defies everything they know about scouting and player development. They say that you can't teach accuracy. Well, he's well over 60% now and he threw only 4 incomplete passes in a playoff game. Even the way he players defies belief. He can run like Cam but he throws like Mahomes. This should not be possible. So, in order to admit that Josh is better than BUrrow or Herbert NFL scouts and GM's would have to admit that the entire way that they scout and evaluate players is wrong. Think about it from their point of view. If you are a GM or a coach on a team that needs a QB, do you want to think that the path to success is to take the top QB in the SEC or PAC12, or go out and find a unicorn and hope he develops? 

[BruceVilanch]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Cut & Pasted....

 

Joe Burrow, Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? Which rising young QB would NFL coaches and execs take now?

Mike Sando Jan 27, 2022 

 

Three young quarterbacks soared toward superstar status as the 2021 NFL regular season concluded. Joe Burrow and Josh Allen continued their ascent with memorable playoff performances. The third, Justin Herbert, ranked behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady in Total QBR during a second consecutive impressive season to start his career.

Burrow, Allen and Herbert are three of the most exciting young players in the game. Each has shown enough to enhance his profile since entering the league, but none has played well enough for long enough to cement himself with Rodgers, Brady and Patrick Mahomes as the elite of the elite. Allen has grown into the role, emerging as a consistently dynamic force over the past two seasons. Burrow and Herbert have played only two seasons — Burrow less than that, thanks to a knee injury suffered as a rookie.

 

Which one of these three rising quarterbacks would you take if allowed to choose just one? I posed that question to two NFL offensive coaches, a former general manager, one long-time evaluator, one younger evaluator, former NFL executive of the year Randy Mueller and The Athletic NFL Draft analyst Dane Brugler. The seven voters ranked the quarterbacks 1-2-3. The results are below, along with explanations. There was almost a tie at the top.

 

1. Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals

Average vote: 1.6

Burrow was the surest bet of the three coming out of college. Any team would have selected him first. Allen and Herbert required more projection, for different reasons, which is why they were not No. 1 overall choices.

“You can make a case for all three, easily,” one of the offensive coaches said. “My gut is it’s Burrow because he’s the best decision maker and he’s the toughest mentally, the most resilient, the best leader.”

The Bengals went from zero playoff victories for 31 years to the AFC Championship Game in Burrow’s first full season as a starter.

“I would take any one of the three, obviously — they are all impressive,” the other offensive coach said. “I just think Burrow has that little extra something. Maybe it’s because he has (Ja’Marr) Chase, but he was that was at LSU. He’s so accurate. He sees things so well.”

Burrow was first on both coaches’ ballots. He was first or second on six ballots overall. Mueller’s ballot was the exception. He had Allen first, Herbert second.

“Coaches want the processor and the most coachable of them all,” Mueller said. “Burrow is the highest level of instincts. To me, that’s why all these offensive coaches were in love with Mac Jones. I just want the best guy, the most talent that we can manage going forward.”

Burrow edged Allen for the top spot because the two offensive coaches dropped Allen to third on their ballots, the only No. 3 votes Allen received. If those coaches had ranked Allen second and Herbert third, then Burrow and Allen would have tied at the top.

“What Burrow is doing with that offensive line is impressive,” said the long-time evaluator, who had Burrow atop his ballot. “His eyes are so quick. He sees it like Brady, Peyton, Brees at their primes. It is almost like Joe Montana, seeing it that quick and delivering it accurately.”

What about all the sacks, including nine against Tennessee in the divisional round? Mueller thought Burrow would always take sacks at a higher rate for a variety of reasons, including the Bengals’ roster construction.

“You can get on him if you like for getting sacked nine times,” the former GM said, “but he is kind of like the general who said, ‘You know what, we are going to have to take some casualties here, men — I’m going to take some sacks, but I’m not going to turn it over and I’m going to get you 20 points on the board and they are going to beat the heck out of me.’ ”

2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills

Average vote: 1.9

Mueller, Brugler and the younger evaluator all had Allen atop their ballots.

“I think he’s John Elway,” Mueller said. “He does not have the body of work Elway has, but the skill set is so similar that it’s crazy.”

Allen is ahead of Elway in at least one respect. He has 31 rushing touchdowns in 61 career games. Elway had 33 rushing touchdowns in 234 games.

“To be to be a top-tier guy in today’s NFL, you need a superhero trait, and I think Josh Allen has a few of them with the way he can impact the game in so many different ways,” Brugler said. “It doesn’t come without concerns. He takes so many hits. He is more expensive than the other two guys. But if I’m just talking about the player and the guy that I feel most confident is going to lead my team to a chance at a Super Bowl championship, I’m going with Josh Allen.”

One of the evaluators loved the way the Bills developed Allen: addressing his accuracy issues early while using his running ability as a complement rather than turning Allen into primarily a runner early in his career.

“They did not say, ‘We have to be run-first to fix your arm second,’ ” this evaluator said. “They have done the reverse. They deconstructed his motion and improved that, so they can lean into the running when they have to, but he has done enough from a pocket standpoint that he can stand there.”

Mueller said he thought accuracy concerns regarding Allen were always overblown.

“Without being anchored to this position, I’ve never been a believer that this guy had inaccuracy problems that couldn’t be fixed,” Mueller said. “I could explain those things when he came out, so I’ve always been a little bit aligned behind that theory of, he just needs training, comfort level, processing and learning, and he’ll be fine.”

Some expressed concern about what might happen in Buffalo if offensive coordinator Brian Daboll leaves and the system changes.

“You’re going to have more ups and downs with Allen once his contract affects the talent around him,” one of the offensive coaches said.

3. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers

Average vote: 2.6

Recency bias could favor Burrow and Allen following their strong performances in the playoffs. Not for Mueller, however. He had Herbert second, ahead of Burrow.

“The hard one for me is Herbert vs. Burrow,” Mueller said. “I think Herbert’s offense holds him back. If you put Herbert in Buffalo, he is not wired the same as Josh Allen, but he could do a lot of similar things. Those are the athletes and that is where I yielded at the end of the day.”

Both offensive coaches had Herbert over Allen, but behind Burrow. One noted that Herbert succeeded the minute he walked into the league, on a team that had question marks on the offensive line and a defense that fell off.

“I think you look at what Burrow does above the neck, I’d probably just go Burrow second and Herbert third, even though Herbert may be the best thrower of them all,” an evaluator who ranked Allen first said.

As retirement approached for Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers and others, it wasn’t always certain if the league would develop quarterbacks talented enough to replace them. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are easing those concerns.

“What I love about all three is just how they’ve overcome so much,” Brugler said. “Josh Allen did not grow up going to quarterback camps where playing 

the position a specific way is ingrained at a young age. He learned organically and had just a very different upbringing and journey. He’s still learning, growing and evolving and becoming better. Joe Burrow went to Ohio State, so he was a big recruit, but he had to go somewhere else and do it. Justin Herbert, small hometown guy in Eugene, a quiet guy by nature, coming out of his shell.

“There’s not a wrong answer here. You can really make the case for any of these guys.”

I don't know if you're supposed to post entire articles from pay sites. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, BruceVilanch said:

I don't know if you're supposed to post entire articles from pay sites. 

Yes, will be deleted if needs to be.  Not much of an article, more so was surprised Allen wasn't #1 and fun reading the comments and how upset Lamar fans are and the Burrow's support.

 

Joe is great, but what Chase can do is unbelievable.  

 

I know it shouldn't (and hasn't been mentioned), but where was Diggs Sunday.  A #1 with <10 yards receiving??? 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[BillsFanSD]

I saw this article too and just rolled my eyes.  I have a very high opinion of both Burrow and Herbert, but I don't actually believe that any coach -- including the coaching staff in CIN and SD -- would actually pick either of those guys over Allen if they were building a team today.  I mean, come on.

 

That's not just me being a homer.  If you had asked me last year if I would rather have Allen or Mahomes, I would have picked Mahomes.  

[stevestojan]

Josh Allen is the best player in the league. 
 

And if the defense could play even at an average level (especially Edmunds, ***** that guy in particular) all the hype would be on Allen, rightfully. 

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The torch has been passed from Brady/Rodgers to Mahomes/Allen this season. The question with guys like Herbert/Burrow is who's the next Brees?Roethlisberger? These guys still need to show it the playoffs and not just look at regular season stats IMO. The game is very different now compared to the Marino era, rule changes make it so that the QB need to be held to a different standard and show some wins in the playoffs. JMO

Edited January 28, 2022 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[BuffaloBillyG]

[clayboy54]

Sure has to be a miserable life to need to find misery in every silver cloud. This about covers the author and the OP.

 

I think that's what "get a life" means.

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I saw this article too and just rolled my eyes.  I have a very high opinion of both Burrow and Herbert, but I don't actually believe that any coach -- including the coaching staff in CIN and SD -- would actually pick either of those guys over Allen if they were building a team today.  I mean, come on.

 

That's not just me being a homer.  If you had asked me last year if I would rather have Allen or Mahomes, I would have picked Mahomes.  

They're all good. The thing about Herbert is that he was elite from the get-go. Burrow is really, really good too. It's nice to have four elite QBs in the AFC. 

 

One comment: Allen was shaky in year one, but his skill set was still visible. He was also a LOT better in year two than his qb rating shows. Herbert was great in year one. Mahomes was great from the first game he played (finale of his rookie season). And Burrow was very good in year one.

 

With regard to last year's picks, I'd say that Lawrence was shaky but also that his skill set was very visible. He's going to be a good QB. Zach Wilson ... looks like he might not pan out. He had a couple of decent outings, but a lot of terrible ones. Davis Mills may end up being very good; he played extremely well down the stretch. 

Anyway, for the near-term future, I think those four (Allen, Burrow, Mahomes, and Herbert) will dominate, with Lamar Jackson being a wild card. I don't know what the future holds for Jackson, but he has obviously proven he can play at an elite level. This season was rough for him not just because of his own injuries, but because he was dealing with street FAs at the RB position all season.  Under normal circumstances, I expect him to be good enough to compete regularly with Burrow. I also think Mayfield is better than what he showed this season because of the injury. That gives you basically six teams plus some combo of the Colts/Browns/Jags (because of Lawrence) fighting for the last spot in the playoffs.

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

It's not clickbait if you have to pay for a subscription. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 

It's not clickbait if you have to pay for a subscription. 

How do you think they entice people to subscribe? Ah yea...with click bait titles.🤦‍♂️

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

How do you think they entice people to subscribe? Ah yea...with click bait titles.🤦‍♂️

??? You have to subscribe to read it in the first place. I actually read it (a friend emailed me the full text) and it's pretty interesting. They talk to a lot of people at all levels about the three QBs. 

[eball]

I read that article and just laughed at the two "coaches" who ranked Allen 3rd.  What a joke.  Allen saves coaches by turning nothing into something.  The scouts and the personnel evaluators get it.

 

Unfortunately, some people still cling to old "beliefs" that they don't want to let go of.

 

Allen belongs, beyond a shadow of a doubt, in the same "tier" as Mahomes, Rodgers, and Brady.

[Billsfan1972]

11 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Sure has to be a miserable life to need to find misery in every silver cloud. This about covers the author and the OP.

 

I think that's what "get a life" means.

I thought people here would be interested .  Really what's your problem with the thread?  

 

What misery?  I was surprised at the poll (pretty sparse and little in the article). 

 

What made me laugh was the comments section.

 

Geez, talk about get a life....  

Edited January 28, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Andrew Son]

29 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Honestly think Josh is the best QB in the league after that performance last week.

You're such a homer!

[TBBills]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

They talk to a lot of people at all levels about the three QBs.

Yea is it the same people who talked about the Bills going to Austin?

 

 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Allen to me is the most dangerous QB.  Especially, when games/plays go off script.

Lamar has that ability too.  When games get away from the game plan and get whacky in the 2nd…then these guys just start playing sand lot and the points/numbers just start to pile up.

 

Over the long haul of say a 15 Year Career…I would probably take Burrow though with one caveat.  Offensive Line being built up.

 

But I trust a QB who is doing it with their technique, fundamentals and mind over the QBs who are finding a lot of success with their physical abilities.

 

Feel the physical tools that make some QBs special will decline over time.  Whereas the Mind should in theory stay strong.

Edited January 28, 2022 by RalphWilson'sNewWar