Daboll and Frazier....have they run their course here?!?

[Jay_Fixit]

Pocari Sweat. Old name.

 

Great troll.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Not sure about Daboll or Frazier. However, it feels like a lot of thread topics have run their course on these forums this week.

 

So…..the challenge is upon YOU to decide the most creative way to start a thread about THE EXACT SAME THING, in a way that nobody notices. For the one thousandth time.  

 

 

Good luck! 

[transplantbillsfan]

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Sweats said:

I was thinking about this today.......could our OC's have possibly run their course here?

 

1) Frazier's D is too soft for today's NFL. The game is faster, Offenses are stronger and an elite D needs to be able to hunt or be the predator, so to speak. Could Fraziers D be part of a dying breed, that just plays too soft.

The game against the Chiefs, the D for the most part looked unsure of assignments and scheme. They left players unattended, they tackled poorly and i won't even talk about the Prevent D.......my god, that was like just giving the game away.

A championship D needs to play better than that. I don't blame the players as we've seen that they do have the talent to compete, however, if they are being taught to play soft, then they will be a wet noodle. A more aggressive minded DC with new fresh ideas may be what is needed.

I remember hearing how Minnesota D players would change the plays on the field that Frazier was giving them for particular games cause they didn't like his calls......they felt a more aggressive approach was needed and they went rogue.

 

2) Daboll is adequate as OC. You basically know what you're getting with his playcalling.......JA, and lots of it. He has done an excellent job with our young QB, but i feel that Josh putting the team on his back each and every week isn't fair. Most games it feels like he's not only carrying the O, but his OC questionable calls. If the Chiefs game has shown anyone and especially Daboll, you've got a 5.0 mustang on the field, why the hell do you insist on driving it like a Hyundai?!?......open that thing up on every play and let it loose. You already know what you got under the hood, man......when we're firing on all cylinders and leaving skid marks all over the field, just let it loose.

 

I'm just wondering if our OC and DC have taken us as far as they possibly can at this point.......maybe they don't know the next step to get us over the hump, however, it would be a shame of epic proportions if these guys fail this team any further going forward. We've got alot of talent on both sides of the ball (it's taken us a long, longggggggggg time to be able to say that) and it would be truly sad to see such talent wasted.

We do have the talent and the roster to make SB runs every year, but making the run to the SB and actually winning it are 2 totally different things.

We've got alot to look forward to for this team's future. i hope that Daboll and Frazier know how to make the transition to todays NFL, as it's an ever changing and evolving monster.

 

I think this team would definitely miss Daboll if he decides to move on, but i don't think they would miss much of a beat if Frazier left.

And if they are both gone this season?........i'm okay with that.

Thoughts?

 

 

Do you know whenever I listen to you talk like that it’s like the team is about ready to pick top-five in the draft instead of being a perennial playoff team every year once removed from the AFC championship

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Sweats said:

I was thinking about this today.......could our OC's have possibly run their course here?

 

1) Frazier's D is too soft for today's NFL.

 

 

 

 

First, thanks for posing this question. It's only been asked here probably ten or fifteen thousand times here in the last year or two.

 

And second thanks for pointing out how the Chiefs just plain out-physicalled our soft ... oh, wait, they actually didn't.

 

If anything they outran them. 

 

Well, thanks then, for ... what? for making an effort, unsuccessful though it was.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Thurman#1

[billybrew1]

4 hours ago, Sweats said:

I was thinking about this today.......could our OC's have possibly run their course here?

 

1) Frazier's D is too soft for today's NFL. The game is faster, Offenses are stronger and an elite D needs to be able to hunt or be the predator, so to speak. Could Fraziers D be part of a dying breed, that just plays too soft.

The game against the Chiefs, the D for the most part looked unsure of assignments and scheme. They left players unattended, they tackled poorly and i won't even talk about the Prevent D.......my god, that was like just giving the game away.

A championship D needs to play better than that. I don't blame the players as we've seen that they do have the talent to compete, however, if they are being taught to play soft, then they will be a wet noodle. A more aggressive minded DC with new fresh ideas may be what is needed.

I remember hearing how Minnesota D players would change the plays on the field that Frazier was giving them for particular games cause they didn't like his calls......they felt a more aggressive approach was needed and they went rogue.

 

2) Daboll is adequate as OC. You basically know what you're getting with his playcalling.......JA, and lots of it. He has done an excellent job with our young QB, but i feel that Josh putting the team on his back each and every week isn't fair. Most games it feels like he's not only carrying the O, but his OC questionable calls. If the Chiefs game has shown anyone and especially Daboll, you've got a 5.0 mustang on the field, why the hell do you insist on driving it like a Hyundai?!?......open that thing up on every play and let it loose. You already know what you got under the hood, man......when we're firing on all cylinders and leaving skid marks all over the field, just let it loose.

 

I'm just wondering if our OC and DC have taken us as far as they possibly can at this point.......maybe they don't know the next step to get us over the hump, however, it would be a shame of epic proportions if these guys fail this team any further going forward. We've got alot of talent on both sides of the ball (it's taken us a long, longggggggggg time to be able to say that) and it would be truly sad to see such talent wasted.

We do have the talent and the roster to make SB runs every year, but making the run to the SB and actually winning it are 2 totally different things.

We've got alot to look forward to for this team's future. i hope that Daboll and Frazier know how to make the transition to todays NFL, as it's an ever changing and evolving monster.

 

I think this team would definitely miss Daboll if he decides to move on, but i don't think they would miss much of a beat if Frazier left.

And if they are both gone this season?........i'm okay with that.

Thoughts?

 

 

You know I have to kind of agree with everything you said in #1.  I really think our D needs to be more aggressive and our pass rush was totally inept vs. the chefs. Our players lost all 5heir confidence not exactly knowing what they were supposed to do. It really is one of the worst defensive displays I have ever seen. You're right adefense must attack to really play defense.

Having said that, the team did not particularly execute well meaning it wasn't all Leslie's fault. Like, in no way was Kelce supposed to be wide-open 20 yards down the field. That was bone-headed play.

Also, there was another time the fans were irate. After the last KC loss. They looked lost in that one too.

The defense played fantastic in week 5. I don't understand why we in no way resembled that defense last Sunday? Sure, Tre white was gone but c'mon, they looked hopeless vs. the chefs most of the game.

personally, I'd like McD to take control of the D. We are too deep to change things too much, but McD can make the necessary adjustments to get his defense playing down hill....

 

#2 I think Daboll deserves more credit than he gets from public opinion....Though I don't think this is a Ted Marchibroda scenario. He can be replaced. But I agree with you 100% that a large portion of Josh's runs must be removed from the playbook in order to lengthen Allen's career. I think we need to get another good RB (ideally we would have three good backs for the season) to handle a bigger load now that Josh will be running less. He needs good backs now thatJosh won't be reading theLB as much because he is not running.  
 

This is definitely NOT a troll post as I am thinking similar thoughts....

[1ManRaid]

I'll settle for whipping whomever made the decision to have our safeties literally 20 yards away from the nearest Chiefs player as Kelce was being hit wide open to set up the FG to go to overtime.  It was like they were guarding against the mother of all hail marys on 4th down, rather than keeping them from getting into FG range.  They were literally back at the 22 and 26, well within FG range.  All 4 of KCs receivers were within our 50, and all had at least 3 yards of separation as we defended the sidelines as if they didn't have another timeout.  Mind boggling.

[billybrew1]

I wanted to add that I never heard of players ignoring Leslie's calls when he was in Chicago (or Minny?).

that sounds pretty fishy to me....

[billybrew1]

Maybe McD can upgrade his Special Teams Coordinator while he is cleaning house?

could an upgrade be available?

Nothing wrong with trying to get better in every way possible.

 

PS I think the logical replacement for Leslie would be our DL coach. Since he was a DC in Carolina already. However not sure I like that hire as our DL doesn't look very good often enough.... I guess Ed got better this year; finally. Harry too and again finally....

My kingdom for a Bruce Smith!that's exactly what we need! Plus a DC that will feature him properly....

[GunnerBill]

No. Next question. 

[Protocal69]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I think the Bills D just has issues when we play teams with multiple elite talent skill position players. A lot of teams do, but I think the difference between our average performance versus our performance against teams with high level skill position players is the widest gap in the NFL.

The issue is that from a philosophical and team building standpoint the Bills run zone heavy scheme. Zone corners are cheaper BUT less athletic and probably easier to find than man corners that are more expensive but affect higher end QB and receivers more.

 

So against lower tier QBs zone works fine but against great QB can beat zone defenses easier than man with everything being equal. That is the reason why the PATS in perfect world would much rather run man than zone BUT you have to have the horses to do so. 

 

So from a team building perspective the BIlls DO NOT want to spend money a cornerbacks. You may say we paid Tre BUT they HAD to pay Tre from a team culture and moral standpoint. YOU WILL NEVER SEE THE BILLS SPENDING HUGE MONEY A FREE AGENT CB. If Jalen Ramsey was on the market right now and if we had the cap space and it cost 25 million to sign him we would not sign him. They would rather spend that money on the DL

 

So in my opinion until we able to bring consistant pressure with our front 4 our zone defense will continue to get torched vs above average offenses. We really need to be able to play man defense in order to be able to shut down the Chiefs and that is why I want to draft a man corner with some zone ability to pair with Tre going in this draft or free agency period.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Protocal69

[Nextmanup]

Suggesting our defense is "soft" and needs to be "hard" (?) is misguided and forty years outdated. 

 

If the OP thinks a different OC would dial up a game plan with much less "Allen" he is also misguided. 

 

There is a reason why the Patriots went to 10 Super Bowls and won 7 of them with Tom Brady, and it wasn't due to their constantly changing supporting cast on offense and defense during that time.

 

🤦‍♂️

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

8 hours ago, SoMAn said:

The Bills allowed the fewest points-against in the entire NFL.   
 

They had 3rd highest ‘points for’.

 

Yeah, probably a good time to get some position coach the opportunity move up and see if they can get the Bills to the promised land. 

Yeah when you play the that team oh ***** it  The Redskins, Texans, Jets,Jags,Carolina.  Real offensive powerhouses there.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

9 hours ago, Sweats said:

I was thinking about this today.......could our OC's have possibly run their course here?

 

1) Frazier's D is too soft for today's NFL. The game is faster, Offenses are stronger and an elite D needs to be able to hunt or be the predator, so to speak. Could Fraziers D be part of a dying breed, that just plays too soft.

The game against the Chiefs, the D for the most part looked unsure of assignments and scheme. They left players unattended, they tackled poorly and i won't even talk about the Prevent D.......my god, that was like just giving the game away.

A championship D needs to play better than that. I don't blame the players as we've seen that they do have the talent to compete, however, if they are being taught to play soft, then they will be a wet noodle. A more aggressive minded DC with new fresh ideas may be what is needed.

I remember hearing how Minnesota D players would change the plays on the field that Frazier was giving them for particular games cause they didn't like his calls......they felt a more aggressive approach was needed and they went rogue.

 

2) Daboll is adequate as OC. You basically know what you're getting with his playcalling.......JA, and lots of it. He has done an excellent job with our young QB, but i feel that Josh putting the team on his back each and every week isn't fair. Most games it feels like he's not only carrying the O, but his OC questionable calls. If the Chiefs game has shown anyone and especially Daboll, you've got a 5.0 mustang on the field, why the hell do you insist on driving it like a Hyundai?!?......open that thing up on every play and let it loose. You already know what you got under the hood, man......when we're firing on all cylinders and leaving skid marks all over the field, just let it loose.

 

I'm just wondering if our OC and DC have taken us as far as they possibly can at this point.......maybe they don't know the next step to get us over the hump, however, it would be a shame of epic proportions if these guys fail this team any further going forward. We've got alot of talent on both sides of the ball (it's taken us a long, longggggggggg time to be able to say that) and it would be truly sad to see such talent wasted.

We do have the talent and the roster to make SB runs every year, but making the run to the SB and actually winning it are 2 totally different things.

We've got alot to look forward to for this team's future. i hope that Daboll and Frazier know how to make the transition to todays NFL, as it's an ever changing and evolving monster.

 

I think this team would definitely miss Daboll if he decides to move on, but i don't think they would miss much of a beat if Frazier left.

And if they are both gone this season?........i'm okay with that.

Thoughts?

 

 

Agreed, Frazier has to go I am surprised that this guy even knows what he is doing sometimes.  No way is a team going to turn the keys to franchise over to him now when just had that debacle because we all know he would lose them.  Plus he has been here longer then any assistant coach in the last 20 years.   It has worked before change the locks at one bills drive so his keys don’t work.

[Nihilarian]

Shhhh, just let it happen! 

 

Perhaps NY Ginats, Stinky fish for one of them. 

 

Bears, Saints, Miami, Denver, Raiders, Vikings, Jags, Texans...any of them.

[SoMAn]

This is a team that is superbowl-ready.  They were a special teams gaffe and a winnable home game away from being in the superbowl.

As is always the case, there will be a few tweaks in the offseason.  But the core of the team is here.

 

But, we're not at the beginning of a rebuild, or even midway through one. We're not searching for our QB. We not a bottom 5 defense that needs a complete overhaul.

 

This is not the time to experiment with first-time coordinators. 

My hope is that if Dabol and/or Frazier move on, those positions are filled by proven coaches who've had success as coordinators.  Most likely, former NFL head coaches who should have stayed coordinators. The one exception might be a rising star in the defensive coaching ranks that McDermott take under his wing.

[JMF2006]

7 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

I thought it was a look at me post, but my works.

 

Ok we are looking.... what are going to post?  

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

So…..the challenge is upon YOU to decide the most creative way to start a thread about THE EXACT SAME THING, in a way that nobody notices. For the one thousandth time.  

 

 

Good luck! 

Hm. Perhaps a thread about how Building a dome would have ended up in a squib kick and playing better defense over the final 13 seconds?

[Stuartjohn]

8 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I wish there was a way we could assure Fraiser being gone. I just don’t expect a team to hire him and I can’t see us firing him. Unfortunately I think we are stuck here despite maybe everyone involved hoping for the opposite 

 

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

When you go from jubilation to intense heartbreak you want to find a scapegoat.  Ask Scott Norwood or Bruce DeHaven.

Well said! My sentiments exactly- who would Want him now after watching the last 13 seconds?? What fan base - our new HC….

Just now, Stuartjohn said:

 

Well said! My sentiments exactly- who would Want him now after watching the last 13 seconds?? What fan base - our new HC….

 

Just now, Stuartjohn said:

 

Well said! My sentiments exactly- who would Want him now after watching the last 13 seconds?? What fan base - our new HC….

Scott Norwood a scape goat? Every time I see a 47 yard FG I think of Him!! He choked- plain and simple!

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

The issue is that from a philosophical and team building standpoint the Bills run zone heavy scheme. Zone corners are cheaper BUT less athletic and probably easier to find than man corners that are more expensive but affect higher end QB and receivers more.

 

So against lower tier QBs zone works fine but against great QB can beat zone defenses easier than man with everything being equal. That is the reason why the PATS in perfect world would much rather run man than zone BUT you have to have the horses to do so. 

 

So from a team building perspective the BIlls DO NOT want to spend money a cornerbacks. You may say we paid Tre BUT they HAD to pay Tre from a team culture and moral standpoint. YOU WILL NEVER SEE THE BILLS SPENDING HUGE MONEY A FREE AGENT CB. If Jalen Ramsey was on the market right now and if we had the cap space and it cost 25 million to sign him we would not sign him. They would rather spend that money on the DL

 

So in my opinion until we able to bring consistant pressure with our front 4 our zone defense will continue to get torched vs above average offenses. We really need to be able to play man defense in order to be able to shut down the Chiefs and that is why I want to draft a man corner with some zone ability to pair with Tre going in this draft or free agency period.

 

The Bills play man quite a bit more man than most people realize since Tre has been here. Yes we play zone a lot but we have become much more than a mainly zone team. We mix and match coverages as well as any teams in the league but it's harder to do that when you don't have Tre holding down one side of the field by himself.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Big Turk