Who is the best pass rusher we can get or available via trade

[filthymcnasty08]

22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agreed...I guarantee that most the people begging for Mack don't realize he hasn't had double digits sacks in 3 years.  Yes, he is going to be an upgrade, but how much of an upgrade at this stage of his career is questionable given he is over 30 and coming off that injury.  Is it enough to warrant weakening our selves else where through the cost to acquire and pay him? 

 

I get your points for sure.

 

Stats aside, my thing is, what does his presence do for this defense?  He is one of a very few guys in the league who the offensive coordinators have to account for when he's on the field.  In the chicago defense, they can simply go away from him.  In the Bills defense, I think it gets interesting because we have a lot of very good players.  I see him (like a Cam Jordan) being that one guy that takes the whole unit to that next level.  30 years old is just fine for that position.  He's still a beast.

 

He's in the zone to leave the rebuilding team and shoot to be the missing piece on a contender.  Von Miller just paved his way this year.

 

Wouldn't hate it at all if we could make it fit.  I wouldn't bet next year's pass rush on 2 sophmores who may/may not regress.

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

 

I get your points for sure.

 

Stats aside, my thing is, what does his presence do for this defense?  He is one of a very few guys in the league who the offensive coordinators have to account for when he's on the field.  In the chicago defense, they can simply go away from him.  In the Bills defense, I think it gets interesting because we have a lot of very good players.  I see him (like a Cam Jordan) being that one guy that takes the whole unit to that next level.  30 years old is just fine for that position.  He's still a beast.

 

He's in the zone to leave the rebuilding team and shoot to be the missing piece on a contender.  Von Miller just paved his way this year.

 

Wouldn't hate it at all if we could make it fit.  I wouldn't bet next year's pass rush on 2 sophmores who may/may not regress.

 

 

I get where you are coming from, and don't get me wrong, I totally agree Mack is still most likely an upgrade.  It's not like I would be upset if Mack ends up on this team.  

 

My main takeaway is that we invested a lot in 3 young DE's already in the last 2 years, and it takes time for players to fully develop.  We don't have a ton of cap room this year, so I am just of the mindset we might see a bigger improvement spreading around our draft capital and cap space over more positions than overly investing back in the one DE position again.  

 

I guess I am just more concerned about our interior OL and DL and depth at CB.  We definitely need to add someone on the OL, and we have 2 key pieces this year at CB (Levi) and DT (Phillips) who are free agents that I assume will be high priority to try and resign unless the market for some reason is too high to keep them.  Plus we have White coming off a bad injury, we don't know how well he will be able to play next year, it can sometimes take a year of playing before a player gets back to close to what they were.

 

Not to mention, I think its time they look for a replacement for Star given his age and how often he has missed games.  

 

Personally...if we make a trade for a name...I would like to see us go get Saquan Barkley, and I think that may be more likely personally.  We can offset some of the acquisition cost by including a player or two that make sense for them, like Moss as a potential replacement and maybe a slot guy like Cole to help Jones or what ever other QB they have in there.  Send them and a late pick for Barkley then redo his contract here.  

 

Barkley here could share time with Devin and not be over used and run into the ground while also training in the NFL's most state of the art facilities to get himself fully healthy and hopefully stay that way.  Having a healthy Barkley behind a revamped OL with Josh Allen at QB could be stupid good if he can stay healthy.  And we still have Devin for insurance.  

[BubbaT]

UFA Melvin Ingram

[filthymcnasty08]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

Personally...if we make a trade for a name...I would like to see us go get Saquan Barkley, and I think that may be more likely personally.  We can offset some of the acquisition cost by including a player or two that make sense for them, like Moss as a potential replacement and maybe a slot guy like Cole to help Jones or what ever other QB they have in there.  Send them and a late pick for Barkley then redo his contract here.  

 

Barkley here could share time with Devin and not be over used and run into the ground while also training in the NFL's most state of the art facilities to get himself fully healthy and hopefully stay that way.  Having a healthy Barkley behind a revamped OL with Josh Allen at QB could be stupid good if he can stay healthy.  And we still have Devin for insurance.  

 0 arguments here.  I live in Giants country and have seen a good amount of his games.  In a short career, he has been in multiple systems with horrid OC's, Horrid OL's and Horrid QB play.  Injury prone?  Fair to say, so he comes at a discount.  Look at the year James Conner had....in a wide open offense like ours.  Change of scenery, elite offense, elite QB, contender.  I would place a bet with Saquan.

[Rubes]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get where you are coming from, and don't get me wrong, I totally agree Mack is still most likely an upgrade.  It's not like I would be upset if Mack ends up on this team.  

 

My main takeaway is that we invested a lot in 3 young DE's already in the last 2 years, and it takes time for players to fully develop.  We don't have a ton of cap room this year, so I am just of the mindset we might see a bigger improvement spreading around our draft capital and cap space over more positions than overly investing back in the one DE position again.  

 

I guess I am just more concerned about our interior OL and DL and depth at CB.  We definitely need to add someone on the OL, and we have 2 key pieces this year at CB (Levi) and DT (Phillips) who are free agents that I assume will be high priority to try and resign unless the market for some reason is too high to keep them.  Plus we have White coming off a bad injury, we don't know how well he will be able to play next year, it can sometimes take a year of playing before a player gets back to close to what they were.

 

Not to mention, I think its time they look for a replacement for Star given his age and how often he has missed games.  

 

Personally...if we make a trade for a name...I would like to see us go get Saquan Barkley, and I think that may be more likely personally.  We can offset some of the acquisition cost by including a player or two that make sense for them, like Moss as a potential replacement and maybe a slot guy like Cole to help Jones or what ever other QB they have in there.  Send them and a late pick for Barkley then redo his contract here.  

 

Barkley here could share time with Devin and not be over used and run into the ground while also training in the NFL's most state of the art facilities to get himself fully healthy and hopefully stay that way.  Having a healthy Barkley behind a revamped OL with Josh Allen at QB could be stupid good if he can stay healthy.  And we still have Devin for insurance.  

 

Never really thought seriously about investing in someone like Barkley, but you make some pretty good arguments there.

 

[JoshAllin]

Need some high awareness DB's that know who to cover with 13 secs left

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

 0 arguments here.  I live in Giants country and have seen a good amount of his games.  In a short career, he has been in multiple systems with horrid OC's, Horrid OL's and Horrid QB play.  Injury prone?  Fair to say, so he comes at a discount.  Look at the year James Conner had....in a wide open offense like ours.  Change of scenery, elite offense, elite QB, contender.  I would place a bet with Saquan.

 

Yeah I think too many people are writing him off right now.  I remember when they did that with Fred Taylor and said he was too injury prone and then he finally got healthy and stayed healthy most of his career and was one of the best RB's in the league the rest of his career.  

 

The O-Lines and offenses he has been stuck in while with the Giants have been putrid.  I think he would excel coming somewhere like here into this potent offense, especially given how dangerous he is as a receiver out of the back field too.  Not to mention, talk about a guy that has that Allen like mentality of playing tough, he will fit right in here.  

[Rubes]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah I think too many people are writing him off right now.  I remember when they did that with Fred Taylor and said he was too injury prone and then he finally got healthy and stayed healthy most of his career and was one of the best RB's in the league the rest of his career.  

 

The O-Lines and offenses he has been stuck in while with the Giants have been putrid.  I think he would excel coming somewhere like here into this potent offense, especially given how dangerous he is as a receiver out of the back field too.  Not to mention, talk about a guy that has that Allen like mentality of playing tough, he will fit right in here.  

 

What if Shoen insisted on getting Singletary (plus whatever) in return for Barkley, instead of Moss? How would you feel about that?

 

[harryS]

4 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

i'm with ya 10000% on this.

I don't think Beane is. He basically said he would draft a DE in every round if he could and that he believes that is how you build a team and that is his philosophy.

 

Id expect another significant investment in the DE position this year, which frankly makes me angry. 

 

I agree.  McBeane can waste draft picks on the defense for the next decade, and they'll still give up 30 to the Reid/Mahomes Chiefs.

 

The path of least resistance is to give Josh weapons and protection so he can score 40.  But I doubt our braintrust will will figure this out.

 

[gonzo1105]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agreed...I guarantee that most the people begging for Mack don't realize he hasn't had double digits sacks in 3 years.  Yes, he is going to be an upgrade, but how much of an upgrade at this stage of his career is questionable given he is over 30 and coming off that injury.  Is it enough to warrant weakening our selves else where through the cost to acquire and pay him? 

 

Buffalo was 5th in NFL in QB Pressures, 10th in Sacks.  Its not like its our weakest part of our team, and thats with us playing a bend but don't break style and not blitzing that much (we were middle of the pack in Blitz %).  Just having Tre White against KC likely changes the outcome...not to mention simply not having a miscommunication on the final KO of regulation changes the outcome.  

 

And we have youth we have been developing to take over a more prominent role at that position anyway that cost a fraction of what Macks $17.5M would cost us, not to mention the trade compensation.  

 

I say, let our young guys play and go bolster the OL, CB depth, and DT positions with our draft assets and cap space as the top 3 priorities.  

I’m not advocating for Mack in particular but people could have said the same thing about Von Miller. He tailed off the last couple of years then he’s thrown into a title contending situation and look at him creating havoc this postseason. Sometimes guys need a change of scenery and the opportunity for a Title. I think Buffalo would be the ideal place for him to get that hunger back. 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

Never really thought seriously about investing in someone like Barkley, but you make some pretty good arguments there.

 

 

I mean the table is set for this to be a real possibility IMHO.  Giants just hired Schoen who came from the Beane school of being a GM...his first priority is going to be to use this year to evaluate the roster and being to clean up the cap.  He is going to want to shed some cap but also try and field a competitive team still.

 

We have some pieces that make sense...like Moss as a potential starter there to replace Barkley on the cheap.  Then a guy like Cole, who only has one year left on his contract and comes off the books next year, is a perfect piece to help Daniel Jones (as they evaluate him) or maybe a rookie QB (not a good year to draft one) as a safety net and guy who can move chains and then comes off the books at end of the season.

 

If I am Beane, I offer up Cole, Moss, and a day 3 pick for Barkley...then do a new contract for Barkley once he is here like they did when we got Diggs that gives us the cap flexibility back and some outs if he doesn't work out here.  Then to replace Cole, you could look at FA and the draft, but also bring back McKenzie and let him and Hodgins battle for the slot spot with any vet or rookie they bring in.  

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

What if Shoen insisted on getting Singletary (plus whatever) in return for Barkley, instead of Moss? How would you feel about that?

 

 

I would still do it...I would prefer to keep Devin, but I would still do it because the potential reward is there in Barkley.  He is young enough still that I would take that gamble, and Moss can still help balance some of the load and also still be an effective RB if needed to start at any time.

 

Maybe if its Devin they want I would try and adjust the compensation to reflect his slightly higher trade value over Moss.  But ultimately, I would still pull the trigger if the deal was the same but with Devin.  And I really like Devin too, not meant to be slight on him in any way.  But I think Barkley still brings a ton to the table and could get back to being special in a better situation.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

I know little about him, but I’ll echo that Davenport the FA from NO piqued my interest when reviewing Spotrac’s list of DEs set to become FAs next year especially with Payton leaving. 
 

He a system fit / process guy?

 

No to Barkley unless it’s for a late pick or cheaper. Even our hallowed sports science department and cutting squats from his workout regimen may not be enough to rebuild him. 

[Nihilarian]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-free-agency-rankings-edge-defenders

 

1. Chandler Jones

2. Vonn Miller

3.Clowney

4. Randy Gregory

5. Emmanuel Ogbah

6. Melvin Ingram

7. Haanson Reddick

 

Last season the Bills missed on JJ Watt as he chose the money and Arizona. Good thing too as he only played in 7 games with ONE SACK in 2021

 

Chandler Jones had 10.5 sacks for the Cards and played in 15 games. 10 years in the NFL. 

 

Khalil Mack played in 7 games too and had 6 sacks. New HC is a defensive minded guy in Colts DC Matt Eberflus. Kinda doubt he will want to give up one of his best pass rushers. The guys hasn't had double digit sacks since 2018, 12.5 sacks, 2019 8.5 sacks, 2020, 9 sacks,

2021, 6 sacks. 

 

 

Also, please stop with this idea of obtaining an oft injured RB. The guy is an over paid bust in NY, so lets leave him there! 

 

The Rams gave up a 2nd and 3rd round pick plus Denver are a chunk of his contract, 9 mill.

17 mill per...is he worth that now as 6th best edge?

 

On another note, didn't the Buffalo Bills pay 100 mill to DE Mario Williams and have the #1 pass rush, best D line in the league in 2014? 9-7...

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would trade White for Mack and draft 2 CB’s in this draft. I would also not resign Hughes. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah I think too many people are writing him off right now.  I remember when they did that with Fred Taylor and said he was too injury prone and then he finally got healthy and stayed healthy most of his career and was one of the best RB's in the league the rest of his career.  

 

The O-Lines and offenses he has been stuck in while with the Giants have been putrid.  I think he would excel coming somewhere like here into this potent offense, especially given how dangerous he is as a receiver out of the back field too.  Not to mention, talk about a guy that has that Allen like mentality of playing tough, he will fit right in here.  

He would be amazing in Buffalo if he can stay healthy.  
 

It’s all about the prices.  How much will we have to trade away to get him and how much will his next contract cost?  What’s a fair middle ground on his next contract? A contract that he’ll be happy with while also giving us an opportunity to move in quickly if he continues to be broken.   I’d prefer to pay a RB less than 7M a year (preferably much less).  As of now, we have 2.7M in cap and have to pay/fill holes @ cb2, 1T, LG, maybe C, maybe RG, maybe slot WR and WR4, TE2. Our RB is competent enough to win a SB with now imo.  Barkley would be a big upgrade if healthy, but is he worth paying compared to using those assets/cap space on other needs?

 

Tough choice.  Eager to see what Beane does this offseason

[Sestak4ever]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:41 PM, Nextmanup said:

Please point out when an edge rusher "changed a game."

 

They don't and it's why blowing two first round picks on one would be foolish.

 

 

Lawrence Taylor multiple times, Reggie White multiple times, Julius Peppers multiple times, Derrick Thomas multiple times, Von Miller multiple times, not to mention Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett. What about Mario Williams against the Dolphins where he strip sacked Tannehill as they were driving for the go ahead score?

[Nitro]

Gronk will retire if he does not come back to TB.   No one will trade their pass rusher unless he is on the down side of his career.  That is a short term answer.  Use the pick to draft a player that will have long lasting impact.  

[Peace Frog]

On 1/26/2022 at 2:36 PM, BarleyNY said:

I don’t think he’s seeing anyone seriously right now. 

Scorch!  Pow!

Got me on that one.

[klos63]

22 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What did the Chiefs multiple game wreckers do against Josh Allen?  Nothing.

 

This is being over exaggerated.  Everyone fan wants double digit sack numbers, but thats not even equal to one play a game.  Getting pressure is what matters the most consistently and we did plenty of that and have a stable of young guys who need to see the field.

 

I am not against some big time talent at DE, but those are also NOT readily available and also come with cap choking contracts we can't afford.  

 

Fix the OL, add some depth at CB, and bring in another beefy DT.  All of that is much higher priority and I will bet money the front office sees it that way too.

And it didn't really help all that much.  Pressure is great, for sure, but sacks and play disruption is more important. We put pressure on Mahomes early and it didn't amount to anything.  I think the 'getting pressure is more important than sacks' isn't really valid anymore, especially with so many QB's being more mobile than in past years.

 

We were 0-6 in close games this years. Sacks would have made a difference in the Chiefs game.