Are we over-reacting to the 13 seconds?

[filthymcnasty08]

It was another dark, unfortunate, moment in Buffalo professional sports to add to the pile.  It deserves to be with Wide Right, Homerun Throwback, No Goal...and involved a historic defensive (and coaching) collapse.  

 

13 seconds ripped those old wounds open.  So - not really an overreaction.

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

It was another dark, unfortunate, moment in Buffalo professional sports to add to the pile.  It deserves to be with Wide Right, Homerun Throwback, No Goal...and involved a historic defensive (and coaching) collapse.  

 

13 seconds ripped those old wounds open.  So - not really an overreaction.

 

Wide right was obviously "the play" of the game but that was no gimme for Norwood especially kicking on a grass field. What had me really frustrated was the Giants controlling the ball for over 40 minutes and Hostetler barely holding on to the ball when Bruce sacked him in the end zone. They make it 17-3 on that play instead of 12-3 then its game over. That Giant team wasn't built to come from behind and 17-3 would have put them out of their comfort zone.

[Mikey]

8 minutes ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

It was another dark, unfortunate, moment in Buffalo professional sports to add to the pile.  It deserves to be with Wide Right, Homerun Throwback, No Goal...and involved a historic defensive (and coaching) collapse.  

 

13 seconds ripped those old wounds open.  So - not really an overreaction.

Once again I'm going to disagree with this type of assessment. If KC had lost, the crux of focus from their fanbase would've been on the missed FG and giving up the winning score with 1:09 left to play, etc......etc........Heck, look at how they've reacted to the loss to Cincy.

 

Patrick Mahomes still had to m make those throws and their FG kicker still had to make a 50 yarder to send it to OT. This is a tough loss but it's not one of those "wide right" or "music city nightmare" losses. 

 

Josh Allen reaction to this loss has been stellar and that's not something we've previously seen from our previous playoff teams. Thats great.

[Mikey]

14 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Wide right was obviously "the play" of the game but that was no gimme for Norwood especially kicking on a grass field. What had me really frustrated was the Giants controlling the ball for over 40 minutes and Hostetler barely holding on to the ball when Bruce sacked him in the end zone. They make it 17-3 on that play instead of 12-3 then its game over. That Giant team wasn't built to come from behind and 17-3 would have put them out of their comfort zone.

Deciding not to get another quick play off to get a little bit closer before Scott Norwood attempts the FG was frustrating as was the fact that NY Giants were literally daring us to run and we only ran Thurman Thomas 16 times in that game. In the words of Joe Gibbs on that game "the way Thurman Thomas was running that day I'd have kept handing that ball off to him till the giants changed their defensive scheme or Thurman Thomas tongue fell out his mouth" 

 

 

[Greg S]

4 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Deciding not to get another quick play off to get a little bit closer before Scott Norwood attempts the FG was frustrating as was the fact that NY Giants were literally daring us to run and we only ran Thurman Thomas 16 times in that game. In the words of Joe Gibbs on that game "the way Thurman Thomas was running that day I'd have kept handing that ball off to him till the giants changed their defensive scheme or Thurman Thomas tongue fell out his mouth" 

 

 

 

This is true. Thurman was dominant that day. Only 19 minutes with the ball. That was frustrating with our offense on the sideline most of the game.

[IronyAbounds]

2 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

There are no guarantees. I am sure Dolphins fans thought they were going back with Marino and we saw how that played out. I do think the Bills will eventually get to and win a Super Bowl with Allen but me saying that means nothing. Hopefully next year is our year.

Absolutely there are no guarantees. At this point Allen doesn't have much more of an increased ceiling (that's more a compliment to him than a critique) and given his style of play an injury isn't out of the question. This was clearly a lost opportunity. However, can't change the past so agonizing over it doesn't really help things either.

[muppy]

One more thought Im having regarding McDermott and his possible/likely longevity in BFLO.  To really say if his tenure will be longer than shorter

 

frankly I need more data. I want to see him learn from the past and remedy past issues/mistakes and keep it moving forward. If he makes some

 

blunders or for whatever reason and confidence wanes at 1BD they best have a Very SUCCESSFUL replacement lined up  . THAT new hire will be on the shortest of leash,  he gets himself fired, back on the coach hiring train right?

 

Pegulas hired Rex Ryan different GM but still... SMH....In any case I would rather NOT make changes while #17 is moving into his prime if not absolutely necessary.

 

A gaggle of thoughts in regards the situation. -m

Edited February 10, 2022 by muppy

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, muppy said:

 

Pegulas hired Rex Ryan. I would rather NOT make changes while #17 is moving into his prime if not absolutely necessary

I think it could be similar to Marvin Lewis or Belichick....meaning if Bills don't win a SB or get to the SB, McD still could be here for a while similar to M. Lewis with Bengals. They always would make post season but never won 1 single game, yet he was there quite a few years.

 

If Bills do get to the SB a couple times and hopefully win 1, McD could be around longer similar to B.B.

[SMAKCruiser]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Once again I'm going to disagree with this type of assessment. If KC had lost, the crux of focus from their fanbase would've been on the missed FG and giving up the winning score with 1:09 left to play, etc......etc........Heck, look at how they've reacted to the loss to Cincy.

 

Patrick Mahomes still had to m make those throws and their FG kicker still had to make a 50 yarder to send it to OT. This is a tough loss but it's not one of those "wide right" or "music city nightmare" losses. 

 

Josh Allen reaction to this loss has been stellar and that's not something we've previously seen from our previous playoff teams. Thats great.

You're right... its much worse... Kickers miss kicks and fluke plays happen.   

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Once again I'm going to disagree with this type of assessment. If KC had lost, the crux of focus from their fanbase would've been on the missed FG and giving up the winning score with 1:09 left to play, etc......etc........Heck, look at how they've reacted to the loss to Cincy.

 

Patrick Mahomes still had to m make those throws and their FG kicker still had to make a 50 yarder to send it to OT. This is a tough loss but it's not one of those "wide right" or "music city nightmare" losses. 

 

Josh Allen reaction to this loss has been stellar and that's not something we've previously seen from our previous playoff teams. Thats great.

Very much disagree with this.  The losing team always gets second guesses in games like this.  That means nothing.  The real problems are the crucial mistakes made by the Bills here.  Specifically those were:

- the failure to get the proper play call to the kicker

- the choice to defend the sidelines at the expense of the middle of the field during the last 13 seconds when KC had time outs left

- also during the last 13 seconds of regulation showing KC our defense twice, taking a TO and not changing our alignment or play call

Those are all inexcusable.

 

Mahomes had to make two very easy throws before the kicker made a 49 yd FG.  This was different than Wide Right and MCM in one important way - those were on players. This game was on the coaches (at least the end of regulation was).

 

Allen’s performance was absolutely stellar in that game.  But what was so unique and noteworthy about his reaction to it?  I have no idea what you could be referring to.  Please enlighten us all. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Mikey]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Very much disagree with this.  The losing team always gets second guesses in games like this.  That means nothing.  The real problems are the crucial mistakes made by the Bills here.  Specifically those were:

- the failure to get the proper play call to the kicker

- the choice to defend the sidelines at the expense of the middle of the field during the last 13 seconds when KC had time outs left

- also during the last 13 seconds of regulation showing KC our defense twice, taking a TO and not changing our alignment or play call

Those are all inexcusable.

 

Mahomes had to make two very easy throws before the kicker made a 49 yd FG.  This was different than Wide Right and MCM in one important way - those were on players. This game was on the coaches (at least the end of regulation was).

 

Allen’s performance was absolutely stellar in that game.  But what was so unique and noteworthy about his reaction to it?  I have no idea what you could be referring to.  Please enlighten us all. 

Take a look at the reactions after losing Super Bowl XXV, not just directly after the game but also in the weeks following. Do you remember them? Bruce Smith railed about not being defensive player of the year while Thurman Thomas railed about how it wasn't fair that he wasn't MVP of Super Bowl XXV. Jim Kelly probably handled it better than the rest but it still seemed like it was a funeral with the guy in talking about it. With Josh Allen it's been positive. It's about moving forward. Not a knock of those teams from the 90s because we loved those teams and they were great but we didn't have that with them. It always seemed as if there was this cloud they were lost in with moving forward. 

 

The coaching calls at the end of the game during the last 13 seconds weren't the best but it's not in the same category as "wide right" or "music city nightmare" and the calls for blowing up the coaching staff are ridiculous. It's panic and it's the type of panic we saw years ago with that giants team when they decided to get  their fire OC and QB coaches and bring in a guy that completely changed their two time Super Bowl winning QB mechanic from the ground up and ruined that QB. It's the panic we saw with Wade Phillips starting Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie. It's the panic that got Rex Ryan hired over here. McD has shown that he learns from his mistakes and he will from this one.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Mikey

[ScorpionZero]

It wasn't just the pre-tard defense, it was the kick into the end zone. Squib kick, that's ST's 101. All the coaches can take the blame for that 13 seconds.

Edited February 11, 2022 by ScorpionZero

[Pirate Angel]

Hopefully this team learned that it needs to take car of buisness throughout the season, the Jags game and the Pat's game come to mind, had we won one of those games the chiefs would have had to come to Buffalo. With how poor our running game was it's a surprise we ended up being as good as we where.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/10/2022 at 12:52 PM, Success said:

 

I agree - every game is match-ups, and the way we match up to the Rams could be completely different.

 

But if the Rams D-line dictates the game like I think they will, I might feel a little better.  I don't think we would have matched up well against that, or against the Rams WR's.

 

Kupp would've probably had his way with Levi. The Rams Dline is for real. But I think Josh would have taken off when needed. It would've been a great SB.  I think Burrow could get sacked another 9 times Sunday. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Take a look at the reactions after losing Super Bowl XXV, not just directly after the game but also in the weeks following. Do you remember them? Bruce Smith railed about not being defensive player of the year while Thurman Thomas railed about how it wasn't fair that he wasn't MVP of Super Bowl XXV. Jim Kelly probably handled it better than the rest but it still seemed like it was a funeral with the guy in talking about it. With Josh Allen it's been positive. It's about moving forward. Not a knock of those teams from the 90s because we loved those teams and they were great but we didn't have that with them. It always seemed as if there was this cloud they were lost in with moving forward. 

 

The coaching calls at the end of the game during the last 13 seconds weren't the best but it's not in the same category as "wide right" or "music city nightmare" and the calls for blowing up the coaching staff are ridiculous. It's panic and it's the type of panic we saw years ago with that giants team when they decided to get  their fire OC and QB coaches and bring in a guy that completely changed their two time Super Bowl winning QB mechanic from the ground up and ruined that QB. It's the panic we saw with Wade Phillips starting Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie. It's the panic that got Rex Ryan hired over here. McD has shown that he learns from his mistakes and he will from this one.

I don’t remember what Kelly said after SBXXV.  That was 31 years ago.  Allen said pretty much what I’d have expected someone in his position to say.  And let’s not forget that this was a divisional round loss, not a SB loss.  He said the right thing, but it was pretty boilerplate. 

 

As for the circumstances, this was bad and it was on the coaching staff.  It didn't happen in a SB, but it wasn’t a kicker missing a FG or a fluke (probably illegal) play.  It was our coaches sh*****g the bed. 

[extrahammer]

Hey folks, just wanted to point out that I took nearly a two-week break from this board while traveling and this thread is STILL being discussed. 

[Mikey]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I don’t remember what Kelly said after SBXXV.  That was 31 years ago.  Allen said pretty much what I’d have expected someone in his position to say.  And let’s not forget that this was a divisional round loss, not a SB loss.  He said the right thing, but it was pretty boilerplate. 

 

As for the circumstances, this was bad and it was on the coaching staff.  It didn't happen in a SB, but it wasn’t a kicker missing a FG or a fluke (probably illegal) play.  It was our coaches sh*****g the bed. 

Unlike the "music city nightmare" or "wide right" the FG by KC didn't end the game. We still had OT. We still had our defence out there and we lost. 

[Doc Brown]

10 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Unlike the "music city nightmare" or "wide right" the FG by KC didn't end the game. We still had OT. We still had our defence out there and we lost. 

Thanks for making us all feel better.

[vincec]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:20 AM, Nextmanup said:

It was?  Sounds like wishful thinking and a good bit of rationalization on your part...which is all too common around here.  I guess it makes you feel better.  

 

You realize they had 30 first downs, 370 yards of passing, 182 yards rushing, 552 yards of total offense and put 42 points on the board, right?

 

😂

Yeah, but besides that… 😀

[Billsfan1972]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

Take a look at the reactions after losing Super Bowl XXV, not just directly after the game but also in the weeks following. Do you remember them? Bruce Smith railed about not being defensive player of the year while Thurman Thomas railed about how it wasn't fair that he wasn't MVP of Super Bowl XXV. Jim Kelly probably handled it better than the rest but it still seemed like it was a funeral with the guy in talking about it. With Josh Allen it's been positive. It's about moving forward. Not a knock of those teams from the 90s because we loved those teams and they were great but we didn't have that with them. It always seemed as if there was this cloud they were lost in with moving forward. 

 

The coaching calls at the end of the game during the last 13 seconds weren't the best but it's not in the same category as "wide right" or "music city nightmare" and the calls for blowing up the coaching staff are ridiculous. It's panic and it's the type of panic we saw years ago with that giants team when they decided to get  their fire OC and QB coaches and bring in a guy that completely changed their two time Super Bowl winning QB mechanic from the ground up and ruined that QB. It's the panic we saw with Wade Phillips starting Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie. It's the panic that got Rex Ryan hired over here. McD has shown that he learns from his mistakes and he will from this one.

Yes & No.  You're right about SB XXV.  There were a lot of reasons for that loss and frankly "Wide Right" was only the last play.  However there were mistakes leading up to the game (only one week between the AFC Championship, an overconfident team not prepared for the Superbowl limelight was huge) and during the game plenty of mistakes.

 

Here it was all coaching and 13 seconds.  It was not perfect for 59:47, but it was good enough to win & the McD and the coaches out & out blew it. 

 

Forget Buffalo, I use NO as the example of how tenuous it can be.  One year a physical/mental breakdown by a player vs Minnesota a mistimed leap and deflection and Diggs scores a last second TD to win.

 

Next year, no doubt the worst non-call ever on a PI and they settle for a fg instead of first & goal @ the 1.

 

Nevere has the NFL seen coaching screw up the final 13 seconds like that.  No excuses.