Ed Oliver 5th year option

[DrDawkinstein]

For what it's worth, my plan for the DL would be:

 

Pick up Oliver's 5th year option

Let Hughes, Addison, Butler, and Obada walk (sorry Jerry).

Re-sign Harry and Zimmer

Begrudgingly keep Star because we don't save much by cutting him.

Sign Shaq Lawson as FA.

 

DLs:

1. Rousseau-Oliver-Harry-Basham

2. Epenesa-Zimmer-Star-Lawson

 

Maybe a DT draft pick in there for depth, and some of the guys we already have on our practice squad. If we could land Jordan Davis at #25, then bye-bye Zimmer or Star.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Billl said:

He seems like the perfect use of a 5th year option.  If I understand it correctly, he stands to make right at $10,000,000.  It’s definitely worth it for a one year deal, but the big question will be what do do with him long term.  He plays about 55% of the snaps, so you’ve got to include 2 salaries when deciding how much to allocate to his position.

 

I mean my answer to that is that he should play more. They need to get him to north of 65%. McDermott loves his rotation but that is where Kyle Williams was his two years here under this regime. The kid is one of the best players on our D. Get him on the field.

Edited January 26, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Billl]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean my answer to that is that he should play more. They need to get him to north of 65%. McDermott loves his rotation but that is where Kyle Williams was his two years here under this regime. The kid is one of the best players on our D. Get him on the field.

I would agree that they need to do that if they’re going to pay him long term.  IMO you simply can’t pay a guy big money if he doesn’t play the vast majority of the snaps unless he’s a dominant pass rusher.  He’s got 12 sacks in 3 seasons, so he needs to become one or the other.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

I would agree that they need to do that if they’re going to pay him long term.  IMO you simply can’t pay a guy big money if he doesn’t play the vast majority of the snaps unless he’s a dominant pass rusher.  He’s got 12 sacks in 3 seasons, so he needs to become one or the other.

 

He can do both. The sack numbers will come. I will call it here and now - Ed will be a pro bowler and get all pro votes in 2022.

[billsbackto81]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

DLs:

1. Rousseau-Oliver-Harry-Basham

 

Our pass rush was enemic with the experienced vets we had. You want to go into next year with 2 players that had limited play as rookies to be our starting DEs? What has Groot and Boogie shown us that they're deserving of being our front line starters? We need to acquire a game wrecker some way some how.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For what it's worth, my plan for the DL would be:

 

Pick up Oliver's 5th year option

Let Hughes, Addison, Butler, and Obada walk (sorry Jerry).

Re-sign Harry and Zimmer

Begrudgingly keep Star because we don't save much by cutting him.

Sign Shaq Lawson as FA.

 

DLs:

1. Rousseau-Oliver-Harry-Basham

2. Epenesa-Zimmer-Star-Lawson

 

Maybe a DT draft pick in there for depth, and some of the guys we already have on our practice squad. If we could land Jordan Davis at #25, then bye-bye Zimmer or Star.

Hughes is still a better player than Shaq, as is Addison. Whether they'll be better *next* year -- a year older -- is the question. Also, I think the Bills like to roll with 9 d-linemen. 

 

I'm pretty down on Epenesa. He not only doesn't make plays, he doesn't play within the framework the Bills use -- DEs getting pressure without overpursuing toward the QB. By running too far upfield, he was responsible for that one long 3rd-and-long run by Mac Jones on the Pats opening drive in the playoff game. 

[Billy Claude]

2 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

I'd argue that piking up the 5th year option occurs for 2 main reasons...

 

1. You value the player and want them back. Plan for a 2nd contract. 

2. You're uncertain and/or have an issue at the position. Basically a stopgap. 

 

I think #1 is Oliver and #2 is Edmunds. Edmunds is good at some things, but I suspect they would have brought in someone else there if they had the resources. The pandemic and subsequent salary cap drop really boned the Bills on the timing. Picking up Edmunds at that point was the best solution to keep the position at at least it's past skill level and allow Beane to focus dollars elsewhere to keep most of the team together or make improvements. 

 

It was really a masterstroke by Beane to keep as much of the team together in the circumstances. I suspect we'll see resources spent at LB this offseason where he has a bit more breathing room (even if they keep Edmunds). 

 

To keep this on Oliver though, I believe they value him and want to give him a 2nd contract. 

 

Absolutely.   I firmly believe they waited until  the very last minute to pick up Edmund's and Allen's options in the hopes of trading him or getting his replacement in the draft.  They waited on Allen's so it wouldn't be so obvious what they were hoping to do.

 

Give that, Edmund played  a lot better this year than in 2020.

[BillsMailman]

He’s gotten better every year. Why wouldn’t he pick it up. 

[YoloinOhio]

30 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

For what it's worth, my plan for the DL would be:

 

Pick up Oliver's 5th year option

Let Hughes, Addison, Butler, and Obada walk (sorry Jerry).

Re-sign Harry and Zimmer

Begrudgingly keep Star because we don't save much by cutting him.

Sign Shaq Lawson as FA.

 

DLs:

1. Rousseau-Oliver-Harry-Basham

2. Epenesa-Zimmer-Star-Lawson

 

Maybe a DT draft pick in there for depth, and some of the guys we already have on our practice squad. If we could land Jordan Davis at #25, then bye-bye Zimmer or Star.

It sounded to me from listening to Beane like Hughes won’t be back and Star will. But JMO. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Malazan said:

 

Name the player that would sign a 1 year deal for it that was available last offseason.

Okay, so here’s the LIST of ILBs that signed as FAs last off season.  The highest paid one, Kyle Van Noy, signed for 2 years at $6M per year.  The next was Jarred Davis who signed a one year, $5.5M contract.  There are several who signed for one or two years at $3M/year.  And, of course, many who signed for a lot less than that. 

 

Edmunds wouldn’t have been a free agent until this off-season though.  Those players all signed those deals last offseason.  The FO had options for this season.  They could have drafted JOK instead of Rousseau at 30 in the last draft.  Or they could sign one of the FAs this off-season.  Lots of the same names on that LIST.  They could also draft someone this year in addition to a low priced FA ILB and use the money saved elsewhere.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BarleyNY

[BarleyNY]

26 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

It sounded to me from listening to Beane like Hughes won’t be back and Star will. But JMO. 

It’s Star’s contract.  $2.5M of his salary is guaranteed.  That, along with other dead money for him, makes it difficult to cut and replace him from a cap standpoint.

Edited January 26, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He can do both. The sack numbers will come. I will call it here and now - Ed will be a pro bowler and get all pro votes in 2022.

What are your thoughts on Jordan Davis?

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Okay, so here’s the LIST of ILBs that signed as FAs last off season.  The highest paid one, Kyle Van Noy, signed for 2 years at $6M per year.  The next was Jarred Davis who signed a one year, $5.5M contract.  There are several who signed for one or two years at $3M/year.  And, of course, many who signed for a lot less than that. 

 

Edmunds wouldn’t have been a free agent until this off-season though.  Those players all signed those deals last offseason.  The FO had options for this season.  They could have drafted JOK instead of Rousseau at 30 in the last draft.  Or they could sign one of the FAs this off-season.  Lots of the same names on that LIST.  They could also draft someone this year in addition to a low priced FA ILB and use the money saved elsewhere.

 

This is a confusing post. This list is players are ones you think were better than Edmunds?

 

Kyle Van Noy was not a likely option. He wanted to go back to NE. He also got torched in the playoff game right before ours.. you might have seen it. Most NE fans want him off the roster at all costs. 

 

Davis was a nice player for the Jets, but he's just as limited (although in different ways) than Edmunds is and was a bust for the Jets. Did you watch him play at all?  Probably not because it was a hot minute. 

 

So is your evaluation of players off or did you not understand the conversation?

Edited January 27, 2022 by Malazan

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He can do both. The sack numbers will come. I will call it here and now - Ed will be a pro bowler and get all pro votes in 2022.

Many of Beane’s picks seem to break out in their 3rd year. Makes sense that he did and will just continue to develop. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yeah,  I’m happy with Ed and Greg.  Resign Harrison and hope he stays healthy. Pray that Basham turns out as it seems like AJ is a bust.  The hope for a “premier pass rusher” if bleak imo.  Most likely going to be another rotation imo.  Not much cap room and we have some holes that need patching.

 

I wouldn't call AJE a bust yet.  With Hughes and Addison still playing at a high level this year and the surprise of how much Groot played and excelled as a rookie after sitting out a year, it limited the role for AJE.  

 

But, all his teammates rave about him and I think this next year will be a potential breakout year for him.  Wasn't that long ago (last year) that people here were calling Oliver a bust...now he is a "no brainer" to pick up his option and seen as a long term piece here.  

 

My expectation going into next year is that week 1, Groot and AJE will be our starters at DE.  I think Hughes comes back, but will be a rotational guy.

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Many of Beane’s picks seem to break out in their 3rd year. Makes sense that he did and will just continue to develop. 

 

Exactly why I keep telling people its too early to give up on AJE too.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I wouldn't call AJE a bust yet.  With Hughes and Addison still playing at a high level this year and the surprise of how much Groot played and excelled as a rookie after sitting out a year, it limited the role for AJE.  

 

But, all his teammates rave about him and I think this next year will be a potential breakout year for him.  Wasn't that long ago (last year) that people here were calling Oliver a bust...now he is a "no brainer" to pick up his option and seen as a long term piece here.  

 

My expectation going into next year is that week 1, Groot and AJE will be our starters at DE.  I think Hughes comes back, but will be a rotational guy.

 

Exactly why I keep telling people its too early to give up on AJE too.

I hope that you’re right. When I watch AJ, I see a guy doing everything he can to get to the QB and that usually includes giving up contain.  I wouldn’t compare him to Ed in the least.  Ed at his worst so far in the nfl has been as good as Ajs best imo.  He vanished during in his first couple years because he was a DT that was getting doubled 80% of the game. AJ looked amazing vs a terrible excuse for a dolphin OL and a couple other plays this year. Rd 2 pick after 2 years…..he’s been a bust so far. We’ve gotten close to nothing from him.  Will he be a bust?  We’ll find out. 

[BarleyNY]

58 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

This is a confusing post. This list is players are ones you think were better than Edmunds?

 

Kyle Van Noy was not a likely option. He wanted to go back to NE. He also got torched in the playoff game right before ours.. you might have seen it. Most NE fans want him off the roster at all costs. 

 

Davis was a nice player for the Jets, but he's just as limited (although in different ways) than Edmunds is and was a bust for the Jets. Did you watch him play at all?  Probably not because it was a hot minute. 

 

So is your evaluation of players off or did you not understand the conversation?

I understood your question.  I just thought it was a dumb way to think about the situation.  There are much better ways to spend $12.7M than on one season of Edmunds.  And there are better values at the position.  while the FA market at ILB isn’t loaded, it’s not like Edmunds is a good player.  Just because some fans have massively overrated him or continue to believe that his potential will be realized someday doesn’t mean it’s true.  Reality says otherwise. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

If there is one thing this board agrees upon is that Oliver has improved and he played well this year.  Is he living up to his draft status, not really but who cares. He is a consistent disruptor.  He will never be Aaron Donald, but nobody in NFL history has been either.  Pick up his option and then see what happens.  He is a top 8-15 DT but I'm sure he will want to get paid like he is a top 5 guy.  

[Southern_Bills]

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He probably was, but he's still utterly replaceable.

 

 

 

Let me know when you find the elite DL aisle fully stocked at Walmart. 

 

 

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He probably was, but he's still utterly replaceable.

 

 

You just continue to reinforce you’re own narrative.