Ken Dorsey - would he choose OC here or leave to be Daboll's OC?

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

 

What irony?

 

Everything points to Daboll liking Daniel Jones.

 

Not 1 single thing points to Daboll not liking Daniel Jones. 

What points to you believing Daboll likes Jones?   He might like the Giants owners/organizational structure.  He might like GM Joe Schoen.  He might like that the Giants have two picks in the top 10.    None of that has to do with Jones.  
 

Daboll might like Jones too, but there are other reasons he might have taken the job in spite of Daniel Jones presence.

 

[TPS]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I'm sure Beane is doing everything he can to keep Dorsey, assuming they want him to be OC.  But he can't make players or coaches sign with the team.  And no amount of hand-wringing or complaining by us will change anything.

I'm sure Josh is also doing everything he can to keep Dorsey here as the next OC, which may be the most important factor.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, TPS said:

I'm sure Josh is also doing everything he can to keep Dorsey here as the next OC, which may be the most important factor.

 

Definitely.  But again, they can only do so much if he's intent on leaving.

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

One more time...the ridiculous part wasn't the suggestion that the Bills should consider who Josh prefers as OC, it was the suggestion that if they didn't, and hired someone else, this would kill the Bills chances of making it to the SB.

 

 

It's not a "gothca".  It's what you actually said.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

One more time...the ridiculous part wasn't the suggestion that the Bills should consider who Josh prefers as OC, it was the suggestion that if they didn't, and hired someone else, this would kill the Bills chances of making it to the SB.

 

 

It's not a "gothca".  It's what you actually said.

 

Since you insist on calling my assertion "ridiculous " without the courtesy of offering a legitimate reason,I can only infer that you're trying to insult me. Let me tell you,in this my final installment in this tedious back and forth, why it's not ridiculous. Since 1994 when the Bills went to the SB,they've had numerous OCs. 28 years of losing and being the whipping boy of the AFCE. Now we have a team that has some talent, if you don't have quality playcalling, why should anyone expect better results. Dorsey has been at the side of Dabol and has Josh's trust. He should provide continuity,not to mention the skill players all want him. If you prefer a failed OC off the scrap heap,good luck.

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

1) He didnt run anything into the ground. He was fired due to a power struggle between him and Howie Roseman.

 

2) Hasn't sniffed a job? He is literally interviewing for a Head Coach job this week lol. 

Listen, I understand you like Doug and what he did with Foles the SB year was nothing if not miraculous. His subsequent years were bad and as a consequence they had to offload their 1st rd QB and Foles. Besides why would he come to Buffalo to be Sean's OC That the formula for disaster. 

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Since you insist on calling my assertion "ridiculous " without the courtesy of offering a legitimate reason,I can only infer that you're trying to insult me. Let me tell you,in this my final installment in this tedious back and forth, why it's not ridiculous. Since 1994 when the Bills went to the SB,they've had numerous OCs. 28 years of losing and being the whipping boy of the AFCE. Now we have a team that has some talent, if you don't have quality playcalling, why should anyone expect better results. Dorsey has been at the side of Dabol and has Josh's trust. He should provide continuity,not to mention the skill players all want him. If you prefer a failed OC off the scrap heap,good luck.

 

This is not about my preference. Or 1994, or 28 years of losing.  Or insulting you. 

 

It's about claiming that without the hiring of Dorsey  the Bills chances of making the SB are "killed".  Sorry, that's a ridiculous take.  So is your claim that only Dorsey can provide "quality playcalling" going forward.   No one else has made such a claim for obvious reasons.

 

The "legitimate reason" is that there you can't just  assume all you have about Dorsey's skill as an OC.  I'm just pointing this out. 

 

 

 

 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Listen, I understand you like Doug and what he did with Foles the SB year was nothing if not miraculous.

 

Again, that is NOT what happened.

 

He was fired due to a power struggle between him and Howie Roseman. It was seen as a surprise firing.

 

3 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

His subsequent years were bad

 

You realize that Pederson went to THREE playoff games, in two separate years, AFTER the Super Bowl year... right?

 

He had 1 bad year.

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

First time play caller with team on the verge of Super Bowl is a big risk for Mcd to take. I’d suspect they look at other options and keep Dorsey as final option if all others fail. 
 

Its a hot job. Better then some head coaching positions. There is plenty of options out there. Look for Nagy, Chula, Chud, Childress, Garrett as top candidates. 

All scrap heap,failed HCs and OCs. Childress,Garrett,those two kill your argument right off the bat. Again our HOF QB wants Dorsey and trusts him. Means nothing right.

[Doc]

I'm starting to warm up to Pederson.  You're looking at retread OCs or taking a chance on an up-and-comer.  Pederson has won a SB.  The only question is he's a WCO guy and can Josh do that and/or can Pederson be an E-P guy?

 

On the flip side, if there's a guy available who won the SB as a DC, I'd take him as well.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Doc

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Not much really. It comes down to McD and Beane s decision .   Garret and Childress are still very respected coaches in a small nfl circle.  I expect they’ll do their due diligence and pick the best candidate. 
 

Garrett was terrible with Dak, got fired in season by the lowly Giants. Childress was bad with Minn and has never established himself as a winner. Remember me touting Dorsey. He's going to be good. He was instrumental in making Josh the best in the business. 

[Einstein]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'm starting to warm up to Pederson.  You're looking at retread OCs or taking a chance on an up-and-comer.  Pederson has won a SB. 

 

On the flip side, if there's a guy available who won the SB as a DC, I'd take him as well.

 

Yes.

 

To me, he is THE choice.

 

Four top 12 offenses despite having Nick Foles, Alex Smith, and Carson Wentz as his QB's. 

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

You know any contacts at the NFL?  The Bills?  Might be worth pitching your idea.

Believe it or not, yes, I do.   But what their GC’s office does is up to Russ Brandon’s brother and his staff.  
 

Also, you can save your condescension for the other board.  I’m sorry that you’re out of your element on this particular issue.  But it’s not a reason to be rude.  

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'm starting to warm up to Pederson.  You're looking at retread OCs or taking a chance on an up-and-comer.  Pederson has won a SB.  The only question is he's a WCO guy and can Josh do that and/or can Pederson be an E-P guy?

 

On the flip side, if there's a guy available who won the SB as a DC, I'd take him as well.

I don’t know if pederson fits the culture here for a variety of reasons.  PSE has had enough problems with sexual misconduct, and isn’t Peterson a guy who had an affair with a subordinate at a previous stop?  
 

not sure I want to get away from EP, either.  But if he can run EP, and if they can live with a guy of pederson’s background, I am all for a hire like this one. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Believe it or not, yes, I do.   But what their GC’s office does is up to Russ Brandon’s brother and his staff.  
 

Also, you can save your condescension for the other board.  I’m sorry that you’re out of your element on this particular issue.  But it’s not a reason to be rude. 

 

Condescension?  Look, if you think you're the first person to come up with this idea and it could help the Bills in the future...
 

But seriously, if you have a chance, run it by Gregg Brandon.  I'd be curious to hear what he thinks.

 

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I don’t know if pederson fits the culture here for a variety of reasons.  PSE has had enough problems with sexual misconduct, and isn’t Peterson a guy who had an affair with a subordinate at a previous stop?  
 

not sure I want to get away from EP, either.  But if he can run EP, and if they can live with a guy of pederson’s background, I am all for a hire like this one. 

 

A quick search showed allegations of an affair while in KC, but nothing was substantiated.  But the offensive system will be important.

[Special K]

43 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Garrett was terrible with Dak, got fired in season by the lowly Giants. Childress was bad with Minn and has never established himself as a winner. Remember me touting Dorsey. He's going to be good. He was instrumental in making Josh the best in the business. 

 

If the decision is between a bunch of retreads who run old school offenses, or a young innovative offensive mind who understands the direction NFL offenses are headed, give me the young mind please.

[Mumrahel]

7 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Giants won't be drafting a QB this year or next because they think Daboll can fix him and will be picking up his 5th year option (for 2023).  That's obvious and moot.  But while Daboll may or may not love Jones, the Giants will be picking a QB in 2024 and Daboll and Dorsey, if he goes there, will be looking for a new job.  Again Jones' problem are mental and having to learn a new system won't help him a lot.  Meanwhile the Giants are way over the cap and will have to shed players.

I wish the Giants could hire you, you seem to be able to predict the future.  Let me clue you in on something about Daniel Jones, his problems were not mental, mentally he's as sharp as they come, postal abilities above average and mechanics A1.  The problem with Daniel Jones was the worse Oline in the league couples with the worse Offensive Scheme in the league, he could not overcome both of them.  No QB would have been able to.  Jason Garrett's offense indirectly is the reason Gettleman and Judge no longer have a job and why Schoen and Daboll got hired.  

 

I'm here to see what you guys had to say about Dorsey but I just replied here just to bring some clarity to Jones and so called mental issues.  

[BigAl2526]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me for Dorey to leave Buffalo.  It's not just the difference between the Buffalo and NY Giants offense, (and starting QB) and the likelihood that Buffalo will be a playoff caliber team for several years, it's the fact that in NY he would always be the second ranked offensive minded guy on the coaching staff.  If Dorsey is confident, he has what it takes to be the offensive guru of his team, it seems to me as if he would be less comfortable having an offensive minded head coach looking over his shoulder.  If Dorsey is not that confident, and wants to be able to go to his head coach for advice ono drawing up plays, I'm not sure I want him for my OC.

[HamptonBillsfan]

44 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

If the decision is between a bunch of retreads who run old school offenses, or a young innovative offensive mind who understands the direction NFL offenses are headed, give me the young mind please.

Well said Mr. K. 100%

[TheyCallMeAndy]

48 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

If the decision is between a bunch of retreads who run old school offenses, or a young innovative offensive mind who understands the direction NFL offenses are headed, give me the young mind please.

100% agree. 
 

McDs OCs hires thus far have been underwhelming. Hopefully they don’t cheap out on Dorsey. 

[Codyny13]

11 hours ago, nucci said:

it's not a lateral move. He's not the OC here. Daboll could also make him Asst HC

The point is if he was the o coordinator. It’s a hypothetical.

[Richard Noggin]

6 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

100% agree. 
 

McDs OCs hires thus far have been underwhelming. Hopefully they don’t cheap out on Dorsey. 

So the guy whose offensive players LOVE him and the trust he places in them, who is now HC of a big market franchise...that guy replacing an admittedly uninspiring hire after just one season (Dennison was hired during an offseason when no one wanted to come to Buffalo) means "McDs OC hires thus far have been underwhelming"?

Edited January 31, 2022 by Richard Noggin