Ken Dorsey - would he choose OC here or leave to be Daboll's OC?

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Beane should head the words of Josh when he gives his heartfelt endorsement of Dorsey. No excuses will be accepted for not signing this guy. Your coach destroyed the collective morale of your fan base by frittering away or chances to go to the SB. Don't kill our chances to go in the future. 

lol...oh boy

 

 

The Bills didn't go to the SB with McD/Daboll/Dorsey.

 

Their future doesn't hinge on Dorsey.

[Weatherman]

42 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Giants won't be drafting a QB this year or next because they think Daboll can fix him and will be picking up his 5th year option (for 2023).  That's obvious and moot.  But while Daboll may or may not love Jones, the Giants will be picking a QB in 2024 and Daboll and Dorsey, if he goes there, will be looking for a new job.  Again Jones' problem are mental and having to learn a new system won't help him a lot.  Meanwhile the Giants are way over the cap and will have to shed players.

Doc I think this is a reach.  If I’m a new GM or HC I’m not hanging my hat on Jones.  First thing I’m doing is calling GB to see what they want for AR.  The Giants have 2 first round picks to offer.  The next thing I’m doing is building the OL around him or whatever other QB they can get from the FA market.  If AR isn’t obtainable, I’m starting with Trubisky and going all in on a QB in the draft in 2023.  This is exactly what Beane did,  

[HamptonBillsfan]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You can't make someone love you.  The situation in Buffalo is far better than the Giants and Pegs can offer him a good salary.  If he chooses to leave, there's nothing else they can do.

This is how you judge the ability of a GM. Don't be misled,if you're an OC who wants to be a H C, do you want to work with Josh or Danny Fumbles, if the money is similar.

[Bangarang]

32 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Beane should head the words of Josh when he gives his heartfelt endorsement of Dorsey. No excuses will be accepted for not signing this guy. Your coach destroyed the collective morale of your fan base by frittering away or chances to go to the SB. Don't kill our chances to go in the future. 

The excuse would be that Dorsey wanted to work with Daboll in NJ. I’m sure McD and Josh want someone who wants to be here. 
 

There seems to be a lot more rumors about Dorsey going to the Giants than staying here. Doesn’t seem likely that he’ll be our OC at this point 

[HamptonBillsfan]

18 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

By all accounts Beane is making a hard push for Dorsey but he gets to make his own choice. He might choose to bolster his reputation as a QB whisperer in NY. There is a lot less risk in that than trying to follow Daboll. Any regression in Buffalo will be blamed on him.

Like I said, with the prospect of HC job in the future, work with 17 or Danny Dimes. If money similar,no Brainerd. The Giants are coach killers.

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

lol...oh boy

 

 

The Bills didn't go to the SB with McD/Daboll/Dorsey.

 

Their future doesn't hinge on Dorsey.

What does lol oh boy mean?  Sean is viewed universally as the sole reason for 13 seconds. It has Nothing to do with Dabol, or Dorsey that we are not good enough. Okay 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

Doc I think this is a reach.  If I’m a new GM or HC I’m not hanging my hat on Jones.  First thing I’m doing is calling GB to see what they want for AR.  The Giants have 2 first round picks to offer.  The next thing I’m doing is building the OL around him or whatever other QB they can get from the FA market.  If AR isn’t obtainable, I’m starting with Trubisky and going all in on a QB in the draft in 2023.  This is exactly what Beane did,  

 

I seriously doubt AR wants to go to a rebuilding team, which is what the Giants are.  If they're not planning on going with Jones, the only other option is Watson.  But the Giants' team is devoid of talent and are over the cap.  It will be a very heavy lift for Daboll and they will have to draft very well.

 

2 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

This is how you judge the ability of a GM. Don't be misled,if you're an OC who wants to be a H C, do you want to work with Josh or Danny Fumbles, if the money is similar.

 

Again the GM can only do so much.  And Dorsey knows the situation is far better in Buffalo.

 

 

[HamptonBillsfan]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

The excuse would be that Dorsey wanted to work with Daboll in NJ. I’m sure McD and Josh want someone who wants to be here. 
 

There seems to be a lot more rumors about Dorsey going to the Giants than staying here. Doesn’t seem likely that he’ll be our OC at this point 

Why would Dorsey want to go to a place where coaches go to die. Dabol has no talent,no cap space and ownership that has lost patience with losing. Last 2 coaches, 2 and out. If we can't retain a key piece of our coaching staff,who 17 really wants, Beane sucks.

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Why would Dorsey want to go to a place where coaches go to die. Dabol has no talent,no cap space and ownership that has lost patience with losing. Last 2 coaches, 2 and out. If we can't retain a key piece of our coaching staff,who 17 really wants, Beane sucks.

Sounds like because he wants to keep working with Daboll? I don’t see how that’s any reflection on Beane. 

 

If he doesn’t want to be here then so be it. 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills have the right to promote Dorsey to OC.  That's not in question.  The issue is ensuring he takes the job so no one else can hire him for the same job.  They can't do that, again, probably for multiple reasons but at least because it violates the Rooney Rule.  For instance, "Wherein the job of OC becomes vacant, you will immediately accept it."  How does that not violate the Rooney Rule?  You're basically giving him the job without interviewing minority candidates.

Again, you’re missing the point.  The bills and Dorsey can contract for whatever they want.  It’s private law between the parties.  So what should have happened here is that the Bills put language in the contract that gave them the right to make Dorsey the OC, whether he wants to be or not.  As soon as he’s the OC, he and the giants (in this instance) can’t do this dance.  
 

your point about Rooney is separate.  That’s between the bills and the NFL.  If the bills, say, promoted Dorsey without Rooney compliance, then the bills have to answer to the NFL.  So what easily could and should have happened is that daboll left, the bills interview Kelly skipper or whomever to meet Rooney, and THEN they exercise what should have been the “promotion ad of right” clause in dorsey’s contract.   It’s not that complicated. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I seriously doubt AR wants to go to a rebuilding team, which is what the Giants are.  If they're not planning on going with Jones, the only other option is Watson.  But the Giants' team is devoid of talent and are over the cap.  It will be a very heavy lift for Daboll and they will have to draft very well.

 

 

Again the GM can only do so much.  And Dorsey knows the situation is far better in Buffalo.

 

 

Keep accepting mediocrity, the birthright of Bills Fans. If Beane can't retain  a QB coach, how can we trust him to improve the roster with FAs. He's a freaking QB coach who hasn't gotten a sniff with regards to an OC job by anyone other than the coach-killing Giants.

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Like I said, with the prospect of HC job in the future, work with 17 or Danny Dimes. If money similar,no Brainerd. The Giants are coach killers.

What does lol oh boy mean?  Sean is viewed universally as the sole reason for 13 seconds. It has Nothing to do with Dabol, or Dorsey that we are not good enough. Okay 

 

The "oh boy" obviously is for your contention that the Bills not signing Dorsey as OC will "kill our chances to go (to the SB) in the future".

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

Again, you’re missing the point.  The bills and Dorsey can contract for whatever they want.  It’s private law between the parties.  So what should have happened here is that the Bills put language in the contract that gave them the right to make Dorsey the OC, whether he wants to be or not.  As soon as he’s the OC, he and the giants (in this instance) can’t do this dance.  
 

your point about Rooney is separate.  That’s between the bills and the NFL.  If the bills, say, promoted Dorsey without Rooney compliance, then the bills have to answer to the NFL.  So what easily could and should have happened is that daboll left, the bills interview Kelly skipper or whomever to meet Rooney, and THEN they exercise what should have been the “promotion ad of right” clause in dorsey’s contract.   It’s not that complicated. 

 

All contracts need to be approved by the NFL, even coaching contracts.  They'd toss it out immediately because, again, you're already giving the job to Dorsey and then interviewing a minority candidate just to cross the t's and dot the i's and making a mockery of the Rooney Rule.  While that's pretty much what's done anyway, to put it in writing wouldn't fly. 

 

And it's not our job, but we're discussing it.  You don't think they/someone already thought of doing it and it isn't allowed? 

 

6 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Keep accepting mediocrity, the birthright of Bills Fans. If Beane can't retain  a QB coach, how can we trust him to improve the roster with FAs. He's a freaking QB coach who hasn't gotten a sniff with regards to an OC job by anyone other than the coach-killing Giants.

 

First of all, I/we can't do a thing about it, so I/we have no choice but to accept whatever happens.  Second of all, everyone has their own motivation.  You think Beane needs to tell Dorsey that Buffalo is an infinitely better situation than Jersey?  No, he doesn't.  It's obvious to everyone, even Giants fans.  So there's obviously something else at play like a reported huge payday, or maybe Dorsey isn't all that comfortable calling plays on his own.  In which case, let him leave.  Josh will do fine with whoever they hire.  Daboll did nothing in the NFL before joining the Bills and Dorsey was out of football.

[HamptonBillsfan]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The "oh boy" obviously is for your contention that the Bills not signing Dorsey as OC will "kill our chances to go (to the SB) in the future".

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

It may not result in killing our chances,but wouldn't you want to make the most important player on your team and arguably the best QB in football,comfortable with his playcaller if you want to maximize our chances. If Josh has expressed his preference on an OC, Beane has a mandate to get him. It's not as if there's multiple teams vying for him It's the Giants,  the worst team in football by most accounts. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

You just keep making things up. Check my post history. I'm the biggest Josh Allen supporter on this entire forum.

 

Ah, I see you deleted the inciminating posts.  Good move.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

It may not result in killing our chances,but wouldn't you want to make the most important player on your team and arguably the best QB in football,comfortable with his playcaller if you want to maximize our chances. If Josh has expressed his preference on an OC, Beane has a mandate to get him. It's not as if there's multiple teams vying for him It's the Giants,  the worst team in football by most accounts. 

 

 

Then why post that it will?

 

Getting Dorsey simply because he's a guy the QB wants has nothing to do with their chances of getting to the SB.

 

What if Dorsey sucks as an actual Coordinator?--worse than Daboll, who couldn't, with Josh, get them to the SB?

[HamptonBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

All contracts need to be approved by the NFL, even coaching contracts.  They'd toss it out immediately because, again, you're already giving the job to Dorsey and then interviewing a minority candidate just to cross the t's and dot the i's and making a mockery of the Rooney Rule.  While that's pretty much what's done anyway, to put it in writing wouldn't fly. 

 

And it's not our job, but we're discussing it.  You don't think they/someone already thought of doing it and it isn't allowed? 

 

 

First of all, I/we can't do a thing about it, so I/we have no choice but to accept whatever happens.  Second of all, everyone has their own motivation.  You think Beane needs to tell Dorsey that Buffalo is an infinitely better situation than Jersey?  No, he doesn't.  It's obvious to everyone, even Giants fans.  So there's obviously something else at play like a reported huge payday, or maybe Dorsey isn't all that comfortable calling plays on his own.  In which case, let him leave.  Josh will do fine with whoever they hire.  Daboll did nothing in the NFL before joining the Bills and Dorsey was out of football.

What's at play? This is just fodder on this board. You don’t know that Dabol has reached out to Dorsey. My point to all the conspiracy theorists is Josh wants this guy so Beane has a responsibility to the best player on our team to get him. Why are you deluding yourself into accepting his departure as no big deal. Accept whatever happens,accept impotence. Accept mediocrity.

[SectionC3]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

All contracts need to be approved by the NFL, even coaching contracts.  They'd toss it out immediately because, again, you're already giving the job to Dorsey and then interviewing a minority candidate just to cross the t's and dot the i's and making a mockery of the Rooney Rule.  While that's pretty much what's done anyway, to put it in writing wouldn't fly. 

 

And it's not our job, but we're discussing it.  You don't think they/someone already thought of doing it and it isn't allowed? 

 

 

First of all, I/we can't do a thing about it, so I/we have no choice but to accept whatever happens.  Second of all, everyone has their own motivation.  You think Beane needs to tell Dorsey that Buffalo is an infinitely better situation than Jersey?  No, he doesn't.  It's obvious to everyone, even Giants fans.  So there's obviously something else at play like a reported huge payday, or maybe Dorsey isn't all that comfortable calling plays on his own.  In which case, let him leave.  Josh will do fine with whoever they hire.  Daboll did nothing in the NFL before joining the Bills and Dorsey was out of football.

Actually I do think someone could mess this up.  Remember the jags canning their assistant coaches several years ago, then discovering they had to pay an extra year of salary because of how the contract was written, and then firing their GC?  I do.

 

Your view on the NFL rejecting the contract out of hand  is similarly misguided. Ever hear of a savings clause?  What about a clause that allows for promotion as of right upon Rooney satisfaction ?
 

And, because the Bills seek the right to promote against one’s will doesn’t mean they would exercise that right.  Ergo, your Rooney problem is feigned. Frankly, in my view, the whole idea of insulating against a situation like this makes perfect sense.  Wanna be Josh’s QB coach?  Gotta potentially sacrifice some marketability as insulation in case the guy above you leaves and we then wish to explore continuity. 

[nucci]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:49 AM, Codyny13 said:

I don’t think the bills would release him from contract to make a lateral Move.

it's not a lateral move. He's not the OC here. Daboll could also make him Asst HC

[HamptonBillsfan]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Then why post that it will?

 

Getting Dorsey simply because he's a guy the QB wants has nothing to do with their chances of getting to the SB.

 

What if Dorsey sucks as an actual Coordinator?--worse than Daboll, who couldn't, with Josh, get them to the SB?

Did Josh ascend to elite status under Dabol/Dorsey, as opposed to the losing OCs Beane brought before Dabol,who were replaced in short order. You want to diminish what Dabol/Dorsey accomplished, where we we should have advanced to a home Championship game if not for Sean's epic brain freeze the last 13 seconds, go right ahead. Don't prioritize what makes Josh comfortable with a playcaller. Taking any leftover failed OC will be fine. Some of the people just want to be arbitrary. 

[BuffaloFan68]

I haven’t heard about us interviewing anyone for the OC position so I’m waiting to hear we’re promoting Dorsey to OC then I hope we officially hire Jordan Palmer as the QB coach. I figure this would be a perfect case for Josh. 
Let’s Go Buffalo!!!!!