Ken Dorsey - would he choose OC here or leave to be Daboll's OC?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, FFadpecr said:

1) Or, Daboll does genuinely like Jones as a QB. You can't prove that he doesn't. You just assume he doesn't. That opinion isn't backed up by any facts.

 

2) Giants were 4-7 with Daniel Jones, 0-6 without Daniel Jones. 

4-7 with, 0-6 without. Big difference, and shows Jones was actually elevating the pathetic team around him.

 

You're not making your case for Jones.  4-7 in 11 games is 6-11 in a 17 game season. That's still terrible.  So what if his backups were worse?

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

1) Or, Daboll does genuinely like Jones as a QB. You can't prove that he doesn't. You just assume he doesn't. That opinion isn't backed up by any facts.

 

Nor is what you are asserting.

 

We can use deductive reasoning to point toward my conclusion however. 

 

6 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

2) Giants were 4-7 with Daniel Jones, 0-6 without Daniel Jones. 

4-7 with, 0-6 without. Big difference, and shows Jones was actually elevating the pathetic team around him.

 

 

What actually happened is that the Giants started the face the better teams on their schedule after Jones went down.

 

Dallas, LA, Miami, Philly, etc.

 

Daniel Jones did beat Philly, though it was actually his defense. Jones had a 47 QB rating and scored 13 points. Thankfully his defense intercepted Hurts 3 times.

[SectionC3]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I would figure that that would at least violate the Rooney Rule.  And from what I recall about the Jets and Belicheat, they named him HC without him wanting the job and he went to the Cheaters.

Depends on how it’s structured.  An automatic promotion would (for Dorsey).  A right to promote vested with the team would not (so long as team first met Rooney).  
 

You’re right about belichick.  He didn’t want it.  But the jets, if IIRC, could do it.  Hence his resignation (as opposed to a declination).  That’s the concept that I think should have been built in for Dorsey here.  General counsel dropped the ball. 

[Doc]

Just now, FFadpecr said:

4-7 is a lot better than 0-6.

 

A LOT better.

 

The Giants struggled to gain 1st downs without Daniel Jones. Their offense was clearly and noticeably worse without him by a lot.

 

Either way, Giants are moving away from the antiquated Air Coryell Offense from the last 2 years (no other NFL team besides the Giants was running this particular offfense) to a Erhardt-Perkins Offense under Daboll. 

 

True, any wins are better than none.  That's not the point.  Again his problem is mental, not physical like they were with Josh.   That is much harder to fix.

 

As for them using Air Coryell, from where did you pull that?

[davefan66]

Feel if the Bills wanted him, they’d have signed him by now.  Most likely they are doing their do diligence and looking at all the options available.  They may want a known entity who can run the offense without McD’s oversight as HC.  Dorsey may require more intervention while learning to be a full time OC.

 

He may be waiting out the Bills decision before committing to the Giants.  And/or he’s in play for other teams also.  Would make sense based on Josh’s growth.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Depends on how it’s structured.  An automatic promotion would (for Dorsey).  A right to promote vested with the team would not (so long as team first met Rooney).  
 

You’re right about belichick.  He didn’t want it.  But the jets, if IIRC, could do it.  Hence his resignation (as opposed to a declination).  That’s the concept that I think should have been built in for Dorsey here.  General counsel dropped the ball. 

 

Belicheat and the Jets was pre-Rooney Rule.  What I'm saying is that having Dorsey sign a contract that says he will be made, and has to accept, the OC position when it comes open violates at least the spirit of the Rooney Rule, if not the rule itself.  Beyond that I'm sure there are other legal issues preventing them from doing that.  But bottom line is that if he doesn't want to be in Buffalo, let him go.

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

No, wrong. More evidence points to Daboll genuinely liking Daniel Jones as a QB than disliking him.

 

You just want to assume he doesn't like Daniel. There is no "deductive reasoning" whatsoever.

 

There is actually zero evidence (outside of trying to get a job) that points to Dabol liking Daniel Jones.

[Doc]

The other problem with Jones is the neck injury he suffered that knocked him out of 5 games this past season. 

[SectionC3]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Belicheat and the Jets was pre-Rooney Rule.  What I'm saying is that having Dorsey sign a contract that says he will be made, and has to accept, the OC position when it comes open violates at least the spirit of the Rooney Rule, if not the rule itself.  Beyond that I'm sure there are other legal issues preventing them from doing that.  But bottom line is that if he doesn't want to be in Buffalo, let him go.

I think you’re missing the point.  The contract should have given the Bills the right to promote, irrespective of Dorsey’s consent, Dorsey to OC.  The Rooney issue is separate.  Of course the bills would have to satisfy that rule prior to promotion.   But under my approach, they could have satisfied Rooney by now, promoted Dorsey afterwards, and blocked Dorsey from considering the giants based on the NFLs lateral move preclusion.  It’s kind of simple, really, and it’s a shame that nobody thought of doing this with a guy who needed us more than we needed him when he came here. 

[Einstein]

Just now, FFadpecr said:

 

1) Why do you act like this was the only Head Coaching job available? Daboll had choices.

 

There is zero proof that Daboll had choices.

 

It is incredibly difficult to become an NFL coach. There is no support to the theory that Daboll had several offers.

 

Just now, FFadpecr said:

Miami wanted him as their HC, for instance.

 

There is zero evidence pointing to this.

 

Miami didnt even ask Daboll for a 2nd interview until the day the Giants hired him.

 

Just now, FFadpecr said:

 

 

 

Yes. That's what people say when they are given millions of dollars to be a teams coach.

 

[Turbo44]

Bills are always tight lipped - by rule they have to interview a minority candidate for OC before offering it to. Dorsey. They may be in the process of doing that. There’s no news out of NYG about Dorsey either

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

 

Facts remain: Brian Daboll loves Daniel Jones the QB.

 

 

Thats not a fact. But im logging off for now. Have a good day.

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Again, you just believe what you want to believe. Nothing you have posted is factual, it's all your personal made-up opinion

Just like yours

 

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Facts remain: Brian Daboll loves Daniel Jones the QB

I hate to break this to you, but something somebody said on Twitter is not a "fact".

[Doc]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

I think you’re missing the point.  The contract should have given the Bills the right to promote, irrespective of Dorsey’s consent, Dorsey to OC.  The Rooney issue is separate.  Of course the bills would have to satisfy that rule prior to promotion.   But under my approach, they could have satisfied Rooney by now, promoted Dorsey afterwards, and blocked Dorsey from considering the giants based on the NFLs lateral move preclusion.  It’s kind of simple, really, and it’s a shame that nobody thought of doing this with a guy who needed us more than we needed him when he came here. 

 

The Bills have the right to promote Dorsey to OC.  That's not in question.  The issue is ensuring he takes the job so no one else can hire him for the same job.  They can't do that, again, probably for multiple reasons but at least because it violates the Rooney Rule.  For instance, "Wherein the job of OC becomes vacant, you will immediately accept it."  How does that not violate the Rooney Rule?  You're basically giving him the job without interviewing minority candidates.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Again, you just believe what you want to believe. Nothing you have posted is factual, it's all your personal made-up opinion.

 

Facts remain: Brian Daboll loves Daniel Jones the QB.

 

The Giants will not be drafting a QB in 2022 (or 2023). Daniel Jones is Daboll's QB moving forward. Time will prove you wrong.

 

The Giants won't be drafting a QB this year or next because they think Daboll can fix him and will be picking up his 5th year option (for 2023).  That's obvious and moot.  But while Daboll may or may not love Jones, the Giants will be picking a QB in 2024 and Daboll and Dorsey, if he goes there, will be looking for a new job.  Again Jones' problem are mental and having to learn a new system won't help him a lot.  Meanwhile the Giants are way over the cap and will have to shed players.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Why do you think you know more about NFL QB play than Brian Daboll? Daboll loves Daniel the QB for a reason. Belichick loved him as a QB for a reason.

 

No, he is not the problem, or anywhere close to it.

 

First, those low TD totals are the product of playing in a run-first offense with horrible O-Line and scheme.

 

Daniel Jones missed the final 6 weeks of the 2021 season.

 

The Giants record in those 6 games? 0-6. While failing to score 13 points in 5 of those 6 games.

 

His absence simply proved how big of a problem the rest of the entire offense was. Daboll knows this, as does Dorsey.

Why do you even join a message board? You don’t know more than anybody about anything when it comes to any aspect of running an NFL franchise. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

Beane should head the words of Josh when he gives his heartfelt endorsement of Dorsey. No excuses will be accepted for not signing this guy. Your coach destroyed the collective morale of your fan base by frittering away or chances to go to the SB. Don't kill our chances to go in the future. 

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Mango said:

Why do you even join a message board? You don’t know more than anybody about anything when it comes to any aspect of running an NFL franchise. 

 

Remember, he was the one trashing Josh until his epic playoff performance.  Now Jones is a great QB.  LOL!

 

 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Beane should head the words of Josh when he gives his heartfelt endorsement of Dorsey. No excuses will be accepted for not signing this guy. Your coach destroyed the collective morale of your fan base by frittering away or chances to go to the SB. Don't kill our chances to go in the future. 

 

You can't make someone love you.  The situation in Buffalo is far better than the Giants and Pegs can offer him a good salary.  If he chooses to leave, there's nothing else they can do.

[Low Positive]

8 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Beane should head the words of Josh when he gives his heartfelt endorsement of Dorsey. No excuses will be accepted for not signing this guy. Your coach destroyed the collective morale of your fan base by frittering away or chances to go to the SB. Don't kill our chances to go in the future. 

By all accounts Beane is making a hard push for Dorsey but he gets to make his own choice. He might choose to bolster his reputation as a QB whisperer in NY. There is a lot less risk in that than trying to follow Daboll. Any regression in Buffalo will be blamed on him.