Ken Dorsey - would he choose OC here or leave to be Daboll's OC?

[billsfan714]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Is that true?

Yeah is jumping from QB coach to an OC a lateral move?

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Yeah is jumping from QB coach to an OC a lateral move?

 

He was also passing game coordinator.  It depends on whether that part makes being made a full OC a lateral move.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, billsfan714 said:

Yeah is jumping from QB coach to an OC a lateral move?

 

 

The last I knew it still was.

 

And that's assuming that the Bills themselves aren't offering him the OC position.............which would thereby be lateral by definition not just by past league rules..............in which case they would almost certainly let him leave without compensation improve his coaching position.

[Heitz]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

There could be a lot of different things going on.

 

Comprehending this is not TBDs strong suit this week... 🤣   

[BillsFan4]

They changed the rules in 2020. NFL teams can no longer block assistant coaches from interviewing for coordinator positions.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/chargers/news/nfl-teams-block-assistants-coordinator-interviews-changes

 

Quote

Under the adopted procedures, the anti-tampering policy will no longer prevent assistant coaches from interviewing for a "bona fide" offensive-coordinator, defensive-coordinator, or special-teams-coordinator position. The resolution also will keep clubs from blocking interviews for an opening at assistant general manager with another team. Franchises will also have to submit the organizational power structure for coaching staffs to the league in order to remove any ambiguity regarding those positions. For a position to qualify as bona fide, the NFL requires only that it plays "a role in the development of the game plan but is not required to call the plays during games."

I guess it wouldn’t even matter if he didn’t call plays (which kind of sucks IMO).

 

I don’t think the Bills would block him from leaving if he wanted to anyway.

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And Beane has said that they plan to retain all of their people........which sounded like they weren't going to just let people make lateral moves.

 

I believe Dorsey is under contract and leaving would be a lateral move which the Bills must approve...........perhaps they are even talking compensation with the Giants.

 

There could be a lot of different things going on.

surely there are a ton of thoughts going through all parties heads and a variety of considerations being weighed. 
 

Each position has only been officially available for a few hours 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The last I knew it still was.

 

And that's assuming that the Bills themselves aren't offering him the OC position.............which would thereby be lateral by definition not just by past league rules..............in which case they would almost certainly let him leave without compensation improve his coaching position.

 

It isn't.  Unless you mean in Dorsey's case because he's also the "passing game coordinator."  But straight QB coach to OC is a promotion.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

They changed the rules in 2020. NFL teams can no longer block assistant coaches from interviewing for coordinator positions.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/chargers/news/nfl-teams-block-assistants-coordinator-interviews-changes

 

I guess it wouldn’t even matter if he didn’t call plays (which kind of sucks IMO).

 

I don’t think the Bills would block him from leaving if he wanted to anyway.

 

Interviewing and actually leaving for the same position being offered by the team they are under contract to are two different things.

 

If the Bills retained and promoted Dorsey all along with the stated intention of him assuming Daboll's role..........as Josh Allen's opinion seemed to be.............and instead Dorsey and Daboll had conspired too leave together all along, denying the Bills a chance to groom a successor.........I could see Beane exercising their rights to the fullest.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Interviewing and actually leaving for the same position being offered by the team they are under contract to are two different things.

 

If the Bills retained and promoted Dorsey all along with the intention of him assuming Daboll's role..........as Josh Allen's opinion seemed to be.............and instead Dorsey and Daboll had conspired too leave together all along, denying the Bills a chance to groom a successor.........I could see Beane exercising their rights to the fullest.

being offered is not the same as being in the position though 

 

that said, I assumed his promotion last year was about putting him above the threshold in order to avoid surprises

[Doc]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Interviewing and actually leaving for the same position being offered by the team they are under contract to are two different things.

 

If the Bills retained and promoted Dorsey all along with the stated intention of him assuming Daboll's role..........as Josh Allen's opinion seemed to be.............and instead Dorsey and Daboll had conspired too leave together all along, denying the Bills a chance to groom a successor.........I could see Beane exercising their rights to the fullest.

 

I'm sure Beane will do whatever he can, but intention doesn't mean much.  Again unless passing game coordinator is viewed as the same as OC, he has a case.  If not, Dorsey not having actually been the Bills' OC means it's a promotion with the Giants and he can leave.

[Mango]

I have thought it would be so stupid for Dorsey to go to NYG when he has Josh. But the rumors seem to be heating up.

 

If Dorsey leaves after Josh specifically asked for him to stay to the press, I would have to start scratching the itch that questions how happy some of the staff are under McD. 
 

That said, we have the most important piece in place. Josh. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

There seems to be a lot of thoughts, at least local sports news guys, that think the Giants are gp8ng to offer a Kings random for Dorsey and the Bills won't match it.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

I have thought it would be so stupid for Dorsey to go to NYG when he has Josh. But the rumors seem to be heating up.

 

If Dorsey leaves after Josh specifically asked for him to stay to the press, I would have to start scratching the itch that questions how happy some of the staff are under McD. 
 

That said, we have the most important piece in place. Josh. 

 

Just because an assistant coach decided to leave?  That's a stretch.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It isn't.  Unless you mean in Dorsey's case because he's also the "passing game coordinator."  But straight QB coach to OC is a promotion.

 

 

The presumption is that the Bills were offering the same promotion to OC.

 

Otherwise, who cares if he leaves?

 

Remember..........McDermott and Beane brought Dorsey to Buffalo.........he wasn't a Daboll connection..........they worked with him in Carolina and interviewed him for the Bills OC position in 2017.

[buffaloboyinATL]

If he went to the Giants, he would be thought of as the OC running Brian Daboll’s system, kind of like Eric Bienemy to Andy Reid.  If he stayed in Buffalo, he’d be perceived as creating his own system derived from his time with Daboll.

 

So in short, it depends whether or not he thinks he is ready to stand on his own, or if he thinks he needs a bit more time under Daboll’s wing.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The presumption is that the Bills were offering the same promotion to OC.

 

Otherwise, who cares if he leaves?

 

Remember..........McDermott and Beane brought Dorsey to Buffalo.........he wasn't a Daboll connection..........they worked with him in Carolina and interviewed him for the Bills OC position in 2017.

 

I agree.  But we're all pretty much in agreement that they have offered him the OC position, and he obviously hasn't taken it.  So unless passing game coordinator is the same as OC, the Bills can't block him leaving.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

being offered is not the same as being in the position though 

 

that said, I assumed his promotion last year was about putting him above the threshold in order to avoid surprises

 

 

It did seem kinda' odd that Beane made that comment about retaining all their people though.

 

Seemed like they knew there was going to be an attempt at lateral poaching.

 

And yes........I am sure Beane would consider Dorsey passing on the Bills OC job to take a different OC job as a lateral move.

 

Would definitely add some spice and entertainment to the offseason and already hateful relationship many Bills fans have with the Giants(particularly victims of SBXXV and middle staters who share territory with Giants fans) if they ended up fighting over it.

 

Honestly,  IMO there are typically and abundance of coaches available and capable of being a good OC when they have a great QB like Josh Allen..........but there is always uncertainty when choosing a new one.

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It did seem kinda' odd that Beane made that comment about retaining all their people though.

 

Seemed like they knew there was going to be an attempt at lateral poaching.

 

And yes........I am sure Beane would consider Dorsey passing on the Bills OC job to take a different OC job as a lateral move.

 

Would definitely add some spice and entertainment to the offseason and already hateful relationship many Bills fans have with the Giants(particularly victims of SBXXV and middle staters who share territory with Giants fans) if they ended up fighting over it.

 

Honestly,  IMO there are typically and abundance of coaches available and capable of being a good OC when they have a great QB like Josh Allen..........but there is always uncertainty when choosing a new one.

If the league doesn’t think it’s lateral, all beane could do is hold all the position coaches back until a new OC is selected and makes the call on who he wants. 
 

which could get spicy 

 

I’m sure daboll has a few guys he’d like to bring with him. 
 

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I agree.  But we're all pretty much in agreement that they have offered him the OC position, and he obviously hasn't taken it.  So unless passing game coordinator is the same as OC, the Bills can't block him leaving.

Bills are stuck having to interview outside the organization to satisfy the coordinator rooney rule, which i get in theory, but is dumb. Most teams want to and will groom a successor from within

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Just because an assistant coach decided to leave?  That's a stretch.

Right, if it were as simple as Dorsey leaving for a promotion. Fine.

 

But I am working under the assumption that the Bills offered the same promotion to work with one of the very best offenses in the NFL. And then Dorsey chose a bad Giants team with negative cap space and your QB is Daniel Jones in what is rumored to be a bad QB class.