Looks like the call to squib may not have made it to Bass

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yes, and as I said previously, there is precisely 0.0% chance that happened.  The conversation has since expanded slightly over the 7 pages since then and I was responding appropriately.

 

I don't know who Erik Turner's source is.

 

But I think there's a 0.0% chance that you're more plugged into the Buffalo Bills team or have better sources than he does.

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know who Erik Turner's source is.

 

But I think there's a 0.0% chance that you're more plugged into the Buffalo Bills team or have better sources than he does.

And I heard from a source, that Frazier said "Don't worry about big chunks down the middle of the field or defending Hill or Kelsey, protect the sideline out pattern"😜

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

And I heard from a source, that Frazier said "Don't worry about big chunks down the middle of the field or defending Hill or Kelsey, protect the sideline out pattern"😜

I'm getting a sarcasm vibe from this lol, but hard to tell with some posters...but only a knuckle head would say, "don't worry about defending Hill and Kelce", although that's exactly what they did. It just sounds so crazy a coach would say that lol. 

[Billl]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know who Erik Turner's source is.

 

But I think there's a 0.0% chance that you're more plugged into the Buffalo Bills team or have better sources than he does.

I’m not trying to convince you of anything.  If you think the special teams coordinator forgot to tell the kicker what the plan was, the other 10 players on the field also forgot, and Bass didn’t think to ask anyone what the plan was, that’s your prerogative.  Frankly, if they’re that incompetent, I don’t know why you’d trust them to execute a squib kick.  Half of them probably had their helmets on backwards.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I heard from a source, that Frazier said "Don't worry about big chunks down the middle of the field or defending Hill or Kelsey, protect the sideline out pattern"😜

 

Like I said above.  Turner actually has current Bills players on some of his videos.  So sarc all you want.  I'm still gonna go with I have reason to believe Turner may actually have a knowledgeable source and no reason to believe the same of you.

 

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

I’m not trying to convince you of anything. 

 

Sure you are, or you wouldn't be posting here.  BTW I said nothing about "forgot"

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

This is the big leagues and there are consequences.  You want to preach accountability, it's not just for the players.

 

I'm not assuming this report is correct but, if so, it's not some simple miscommunication to learn from.  It's an inexcusable failure.

Hard hard hard disagree.  I’m not weakening our team over a miscommunication.  Everyone in this thread would have been fired from every job they ever had or currently have if you got fired for a single mistake.  
 

Sorry firing him would be a huge emotional over reaction.  And how do we know it wasn’t a player that was supposed to tell Bass?  Or maybe someone shouted at him and he didn’t hear with crowd noise?  
 

Not to mention we still had multiple chances to not lose that game after the kickoff in both regulation and OT.  
 

Just would be foolish to fire him after our ST unit was among the best in the NFL this year.  
 

This season is over.  Stupid to lessen our team now over it going into next season where we are on a new quest to win it all just to satisfy some fans appetite for blood as if that changes anything.  

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

I’m not trying to convince you of anything.  If you think the special teams coordinator forgot to tell the kicker what the plan was, the other 10 players on the field also forgot, and Bass didn’t think to ask anyone what the plan was, that’s your prerogative.  Frankly, if they’re that incompetent, I don’t know why you’d trust them to execute a squib kick.  Half of them probably had their helmets on backwards.

I get what you're saying and who knows what/how it really went down. But it just seems weird to me.. It's really strange that the other players on ST would know but not the kicker for some reason.

 

I don't know, but kinda comes off as someone attempting to cover their own ass

[london_bills]

4 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

A popular Bills podcaster is claiming it is "fact, not speculation" that a squib kick was called and it was communicated to the entire special teams huddle except for Bass, who was practicing to the side.

Also, the Bills played defense as if there were only 8 seconds left. You almost wonder if the defensive call was made prior to the kick and they didn't adjust. Had they squibbed, the defense they played would have been fine.

 

It should be noted that the podcaster has not specified how he knows the "fact" of the squib call. Does he have a source in the building?

Is that the cover one video or somewhere else where I can hear that? 

Edited January 26, 2022 by london_bills

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

2 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Is that the cover one video or somewhere else where I can hear that? 

Cover 1

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let's grant that Gosselin is "excellent at this" and the ST overall ranked 8th in the league.  That would be relative to the #1 defense and the #3 offense, so there's that - they're still the worst unit on the team, despite giving a number of roster spots to ST specialists (Taiwan Jones, Neal, Kumerow, Matekavich, Andre' Smith, plus the punter, kicker, and LS).

 

That said: Blocks happen....to how many teams?

I'll answer:  6. 

 

In addition, we had several punts that don't count as blocks, but that were pretty well muffed for one reason or another

 

I'm not saying it's a "firing offense" but, it was pretty clear there was some communication/assignment issues involved in the failed block that led to the blocked punt for 7 points vs the Steelers.

 

There's been a bunch of stuff....McKenzie had a number of strong returns called back by penalty, the penalty on Taiwan Jones, the fact that we went into camp with 4 guys who had KR/PR experience, came out of camp with 3, and wound up with Hyde returning punts and maybe coaching/development played a role?  etc

 

Just not impressed with our ST given the investment

 

 

 

I came to this thread intending to say something else, but in looking through the last couple of pages, I found this.  

 

What you say is a terrific insight into the bigger picture.   You've demonstrated that the special teams underperformed to McDermott's standards.  The Jones penalty and the miscommunication on the squib kick is bad enough, but your look back over the season really makes the case.   They're just supposed to be better than that.  

 

It's clear from what McDermott said that what to do in the kickoff situation was a detail that they had thought about and planned for.  As a group, the players and coaches failed to execute, which is exactly what McDermott said. 

 

The finger points clearly at Farwell.  McDermott's job in the coming days is to decide whether he continues to believe that Farwell is the right guy for the job, whether he can learn and grow so that he executes teaches and executes better.   Some teams would have fired him the day after the game.   McDermott won't treat people that way; he will let the waters calm a bit, but he isn't going to keep the guy if he doesn't think he can do the job better.  

 

Several years ago, a US submarine surfaced off the coast of Hawaii and struck and sank a Japanese ship that was carrying school children on a summer oceanography class.   Several kids died.   Several months later, I happened to see the captain of the submarine on Larry King.  King kept trying to get the guy to say it was the radar operators' fault for not seeing the ship on the surface, or the helmsman's fault for surfacing without checking with the radar guy, or someone else's fault for not doing something else.   The captain repeatedly refused.   He kept saying it was his fault.  He was responsible for the training of the crew, and if someone didn't do his job right, it was the captain's fault.  It was admirable, and it was true.  His job is to organize everyone on the boat in a way that they always execute.   

 

McDermott sees it the same way.   He is not going to blame what happened on anyone, because he is going to work and evaluate and train to be sure it doesn't happen again.  It was someone's job to be sure that Bass knew to squib it, and that someone didn't do it.  The training has to be better, but maybe the system has to be better, too.  Maybe there needs to be a second guy, maybe a guy on the kickoff team, whose job it is to double check with Bass.   And maybe there are other on-field situations where they need a better procedure.   McDermott understands that's his job, and there will be changes made.  

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let's grant that Gosselin is "excellent at this" and the ST overall ranked 8th in the league.  That would be relative to the #1 defense and the #3 offense, so there's that - they're still the worst unit on the team, despite giving a number of roster spots to ST specialists (Taiwan Jones, Neal, Kumerow, Matekavich, Andre' Smith, plus the punter, kicker, and LS).

 

That said: Blocks happen....to how many teams?

I'll answer:  6. 

 

In addition, we had several punts that don't count as blocks, but that were pretty well muffed for one reason or another

 

I'm not saying it's a "firing offense" but, it was pretty clear there was some communication/assignment issues involved in the failed block that led to the blocked punt for 7 points vs the Steelers.

 

There's been a bunch of stuff....McKenzie had a number of strong returns called back by penalty, the penalty on Taiwan Jones, the fact that we went into camp with 4 guys who had KR/PR experience, came out of camp with 3, and wound up with Hyde returning punts and maybe coaching/development played a role?  etc

 

Just not impressed with our ST given the investment

 

 

 

All good points, McKenzie being thrust into the role was us letting Robert's walk (cap situation obviously). That didn't work out well, that is a player who is not comfortable out there and not having other realistic options. Is that the coach? That is more on the player and the organization imo.

 

Same can be said for Haack, who was not good. It sure doesn't sound like Beane was impressed as he was inconsistent. They didn't want to make a move because of the kicking situation. With the limited practice time, not 1 team used QB2 as a holder this year....

 

I would have to go back and look at the 6 punts you are referring to, how much of that is a player getting beat or even Haack taking a second too long or a bad angle?

 

 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

All good points, McKenzie being thrust into the role was us letting Robert's walk (cap situation obviously). That didn't work out well, that is a player who is not comfortable out there and not having other realistic options. Is that the coach? That is more on the player and the organization imo.

 

Same can be said for Haack, who was not good. It sure doesn't sound like Beane was impressed as he was inconsistent. They didn't want to make a move because of the kicking situation. With the limited practice time, not 1 team used QB2 as a holder this year....

 

I would have to go back and look at the 6 punts you are referring to, how much of that is a player getting beat or even Haack taking a second too long or a bad angle?

 

 

Not to speak for Hapless, but I think when you look at the totality of what you just said, you have to ask whether Farwell is the right guy for the job.   Essentially, you said Farwell is unable to get McKenzie to do his job and was unable to get Haack to do his job.  Probably unable to get the line to do its job.   There was a broad collection of problems on special teams.  

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Not to speak for Hapless, but I think when you look at the totality of what you just said, you have to ask whether Farwell is the right guy for the job.   Essentially, you said Farwell is unable to get McKenzie to do his job and was unable to get Haack to do his job.  Probably unable to get the line to do its job.   There was a broad collection of problems on special teams.  

Coverage units were good, players stayed in their lanes, not many big returns given up. That is more coaching vs 1 on 1 matchups...

 

You can only coach up players so much.

 

When it comes to blocks, were the other teams selling out to block the punts to try to score points since they can't keep up with our offense and Josh?

 

This is multifaceted 

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

This is multifaceted 

No doubt.  That's why we're all just talkin'.  Only the people in the building know what's what. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

All good points, McKenzie being thrust into the role was us letting Robert's walk (cap situation obviously). That didn't work out well, that is a player who is not comfortable out there and not having other realistic options. Is that the coach? That is more on the player and the organization imo.

 

Same can be said for Haack, who was not good. It sure doesn't sound like Beane was impressed as he was inconsistent. They didn't want to make a move because of the kicking situation. With the limited practice time, not 1 team used QB2 as a holder this year....

 

I would have to go back and look at the 6 punts you are referring to, how much of that is a player getting beat or even Haack taking a second too long or a bad angle?

 

 

 

Apologies if I was unclear, I wasn't referring to 6 blocks of Haack punts.

 

My intended point was that there were only 6 teams in the league who had any punts scored as blocks .....so while blocks do happen, most teams do not have punts blocked.

 

I don't think McKenzie was "thrust into the role".  He wanted it, he worked for it, he earned it against his competition.  And his competition included a guy who was a KR/PR in college, a RB who had returned kickoffs his rookie year, and a WR who is now returning kicks and punts for a team that is still in the playoffs (Brandon Powell, Rams).

 

So really, none of the 4 worked out, and since at least 1 of them can apparently get the job done for a championship contending team, is that the players or could there be an aspect of coaching?

 

50 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

When it comes to blocks, were the other teams selling out to block the punts to try to score points since they can't keep up with our offense and Josh?

 

For the blocked punt against the Steelers, they were keeping up with our offense just fine

No "selling out" that I saw.  Matekavich said that they'd practiced against that formation during the week, so it wasn't something they hadn't seen, either.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I mean that’s still on McDermott. He is the head coach.  He hast to take five seconds to walk over to Bass and tell him that we are squib kicking it. I don’t care if McDermont is the 10th person to tell bass.

[Billsfan1972]

Farwell looks after all aspects of ST.  The one there can be no issues with is kick coverage, with the longest return all year being 31 yards and an average under 18.

 

Squib or Pop-up (the two I wanted and all numbers pointed too with the clock running) or through the endzone.  I find it unfathomable that they were not on the same page.

 

The call was to kick it deep.  Some say Bass kicked it too long, which as I pointed out in the first post was wrong, reviewing every kick.  I then made the argument that the better options had a much higher probability of success.  

 

To say it was miscommunication is next to impossible to believe, because that is the kickers one and only job (kick it as told to by the coach (left, right, down the middle, through the endzone).  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

Is that the cover one video or somewhere else where I can hear that? 

 

Cover 1.  7 minutes in.  Start about 6:30

[Billznut]

5 hours ago, Mickey said:

clock doesn't run on a 2 point conversion or an extra point kick

Isn’t it scary that some called football fans here don’t know this?  I’ve known this since age 8 as I’m sure alot of others have as well. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

It's all BS. Sean is responsible under any circumstance for what Bass did. If he didn't confirm that Bass knew he had to kick the ball in the field of play, he's guilty of incompetence. What happened is that the wrong decision played out and resulted in an epic collapse. Sean has to own it.